The c-levels are really sick of all these new features they're adding and no one is using them because of silly reasons like "they don't work good" or "I can't even see the point of this for me".
In their wisdom, they've taken the option to say no away from the users. Now they have a much easier time justifying their bonus this year, just look at how many users are using their new features!
Yeah they’ll take that bonus and then dip to another company and get a big resignation party and golden parachute while the rest of us stare in amazement
somebody who has worked at these types of companies
Begging people to subscribe to their own hardware will have increased results when they can show you your OneDrive is full. It probably will get them more money than it loses them. They are utterly thirsty for subscription revenue.
Real question here: has anyone else had luck side-stepping the Live365 signup during/after install? I've done this, and I'm very confused that more people haven't.
iirc when going through the setup after a fresh install, I used sign in and typed in an email like [email protected] with a keysmashed password. Because it’s obviously not an actual account and with a password that wouldn’t be correct, it’ll say as much but still let you continue into windows without signing in. Hope that helps
Wouldn't be so bad if onedrive backup didn't completely restructure your folders so it can back shit up. I hate that it moves your main folders to the OneDrive folder.
It creates so many issues.
You should try moving the OneDrive folder after setup for a complete shitshow. Even Microsoft products fail to read and write to the right places. If I save from word to my documents folder it never appears in OneDrive but in a separate documents folder under my user profile.
Luckily OneDrive hides this from normal explorer so you can’t find that file using that
How do I get banned from OneDrive? Upload shit tons of garbage to clog their drives? I know they could probably add more space faster than I can upload but it would still make me happy to slowly feed them useless files that only take up space.
My first thought was to abuse something that rhymes with "Mild Topography". But that would likely lead to legal repercussions for both you and Microsoft. A better solution would be to store hundreds of medical records in your Documents folder. You have a right to store your own medical information. If Microsoft is uploading those to their servers without your consent, and without appropriate HIPAA measures, that smells like an extremely silver-wrapped lawsuit.
The answer is incompressible noise. Hours of full on 8k video and 7.1 channel DTS of pure noise. There's noise designed specifically to being incompressible and unable to deduplicate. I think some podcasts got in trouble with Spotify for something like this.
Microsoft is on a fuck up their product speedrun, ain't it?
I've been reading " Windows 11 does this and that without asking your permission." Almost daily now. I wonder when Windows 11 will fingerbang my SO without permission next.
Microsoft is on a fuck up their product speedrun, ain’t it?
I think at this point it's clear they have a core base of users who (for one reason or another) aren't going anywhere no matter how much abuse they pile on top. It's MS's version of that 38% or whatever of people who are clearly going to vote Trump even if he reveals himself to be the literal devil.
Fucking up their product? Why yes, each and every year they give me a new object lesson in how grateful I am to have ejected them from my life (except when paid to use Windows) in 2007. But will the company come to harm from it? I don't think so.
Linux nerds kind of lost the public relations war, the long-time antagonism towards "normie" users has created a lingering notion that linux is a pain in the ass and unaccomodating, even as some devs have tried to make it more inviting. It's a difficult hump to overcome I think.
What is this "public consciousness" you are talking about? Like, tech writers? And that's a genuine question...
Because if I tell my elderly father "hey dad, I'll install Linux on your machine," he won't say "ah, Linux, yes, I've been reading for the past 15 years that it's a difficult operating system, right?" He will say "what the hell is Linux?!"
I'd argue that searching around a slew of webpages to find a download button (without clicking an ad that imitates a download button), then running the .exe while making sure to uncheck the 4 or 5 pieces of adware they try to slip in without you noticing, then having to remember to update it manually now and then, is much more of a sketchy pain in the ass than running a single command to install everything from your kernel, to your web browser, all of which is tightly vetted and comes from a monitored set of servers.
Also, if you really want a "click to install" most DE's have a software store that either acts as a frontend for your package manager, or just uses flatpaks.
I'd argue this is just what people are used to, and Windows has taught people that terminal=scary/hacky.
The point is that a lot of people will never ever use a terminal. EVER. And if they have to do that just to install a program, that's already asking too much. They're used to pointing, clicking, double-clicking and typing for communication.
Imagine if you're used to driving cars and filling up the gas tank, well, the usual way. Now there's this new tinkerer's car that everyone is raving about. And your dad asks "how do I fill up the gas tank?" (or recharge the battery, or whatever), and someone says "oh, just go under the car and plug the cable into the orange slot right behind the left back axle. It's that easy!"
Okay. Everyone is different.
If they can point, click and type they can open a terminal and type something simple.
I have to say your car analogy is more difficult.
It's just a matter of explaining a different process than what they are familiar with to install something. It's not hard at all after you show/explain. Just different and in my opinion easier than an exe.
If you can open an app you can open the terminal. It's not a daunting task.
The analogy showing a difficult task is the point. "It's more difficult." Yeah, to you. Opening a terminal and typing a command for something you don't do often feels like second nature to you, because you're an expert. You're already using Linux. Try teaching that to a thousand grampas. Good luck retaining your sanity.
Windows: Search the Web for some software. Visit webpage. Download executable. Run it. Go through a install wizard. (One month later) Update? Some do it themselves, some just let you know there is a newer version, and a lot of bigger players have a program dedicated to just updating some other program.
Compared to (for example): paru -S <something>
That's it. Updating aaaalll the software in your whole system, including the OS, and you don't have to restart, or even close any of the programs you are updating? paru
Ms is slowly removing the avenues to have a local account. They may have saw the recent article where they patched out methods to create local accounts. There may be only 1 way left to do it and will probably be patched out soon.
Unless there will be new separate Windows OS created that is not backwards compatible with anything prior to it like it was attempted with Windows S, this most likely will never happen.
Local accounts are integral part of OS. MS might make it harder to do, but there will always be an option.
Probably not, all you need account for is for sign in after all. MS account just has additional benefits related to syncing your settings and some settings enabled by default like it is with this OneDrive feature and BitLocker encryption, but most of it can be replicated afterwards with local account.
Yes I agree with you that should be the case, that’s not what’s happening in reality. They are slowly closing off that option and it won’t be long till it could be gone. There’s no reason from their perspective it HAS to be there.
Ehh, you get used to these small minor annoyances. Have not experienced anything yet that would push me to change OS and relearn all the ins and outs I have accumulated all these years I have on Windows.
Have used Linux Mint as my primary OS for a year and I liked certain aspects, but in the end I did not see any tangible benefit to switch besides more customization. Have installed it for my parents though since they have old hardware that W10 just is not meant for. Since they are technologically challenged and need just a browser, they had no issues with switch from Windows.
Because that definitely isn't Linux. Where you got to dive into documentation in order to install the correct repositories just to make your audio work. (And if it isn't that, then it is some other bullshit)
Actually, I wouldn't put Mac in there as well, where Apple can just decide you aren't allowed to do something.
Can't think of a single OS that does exactly what you want without much hassle.
First, needing to set things up does not mean the OS is actively fighting you. If you need to install something for your hardware to work Linux actively wants to aid you, where as Microsoft is actively fighting against you keeping your files and accounts local.
Second, I tried Linux last week and had minimal issues getting my hardware to work. The biggest problems I had were a result of me over-complicating things because I assumed it would be harder and assumed Linux was at fault. Turns out the specific software I was using was the problem and the fix was easy.
You must not know all that many people. Windows is pushing accounts super hard. Average user is complying with this.
Ask your fish monger or barista , bet one of them has a m$ account.
In civilized countries there is an understanding that noone is reading dozens of pages of terms of agreement, so any clause in there that is unexpected is automatically void. Expecting a software agreement to include rules not to distribute it further, break copy protection mechanisms etc. is normal so those terms are valid. But having all your data stolen is not something to be expected, hence invalid.
Try going with that argument to court and see what happens. In USA basically anything goes, whatever is written in there. No matter how weird or against the user. There's a reason why EU's pushing new and shorter terms than can be glanced and read easily.
Whoever is downvoting this needs to have an encounter with the U.S. legal system, so they find out how little their precious freaking "rights" are worth.
Yup. But this is Lemmy. People are emotional rather than rational.
Edit: Here's a video I linked in my other comment where Ross is talking about USA law and terms and conditions when it comes to games. He's trying to get publishers to stop killing games once they are out. He basically consulted two lawyers and they both give up on that. It's so atrocious that it's not a matter for law, but constitution.
IANAL and could be wrong, but it is not the case that the T’s&C’s we all have to agree to aren’t necessarily legally binding, because people can’t be expected to read and understand them all.
With that in mind, it doesn’t matter what the user agrees to if they have no practical alternative available to them.
There's actually no speculation on this one. There's a fight going on led by Ross Scott of Accursed Farms against shutting down game servers when game requires always online access. Basically lawyers have checked the law in this instance and in USA terms and conditions are GOD. You accepted it and you live with it. Here's the video. I recommend watching that section of video.
Microsoft is, you have noticed, not from UK. Although I wonder how that will play out. They did move around their company for tax evasion. I think latest was Ireland, then again I think they were smart enough for money to go one side and software to be released by other. It's a complex matter. EU has been able to reign them in somewhat with stupidly high punishments with GDPR. Then again, you are no longer part of that.
Microsoft can only operate as a franchise overseas. You know this thing called trade law in other countries. Contrary to popular American belief, they are not the center of the world
This bullshit was basically my first experience with Windows 11 when I got a new PC last year. Literally, "Why is my internet so slow? What's this OneDrive thing? Oh, holy shit fucking stop Jesus Christ!"
Just automatically started uploading everything on my hard drive to an account I didn't set up, without even a prompt telling me it was happening, and no obvious way to make it stop. I didn't even know Windows had added a cloud storage option. I actually had to completely uninstall OneDrive to finally make it stop.
I might have liked having a native backup service in Windows if it was like, "Hey look at this handy cloud storage tool we've added to Windows! Would you like to pick some files to save?" But as it is, it might as well just be another piece of spyware.
There's a big long list of reasons why I hate Windows 11, but this OneDrive shit is the thing that's making me think maybe it's time to ditch Windows for good.
While we're sucking up every single file, let's also do daily, non incremental backups
We'll hit the free storage limit it no time and then we can start sending DIRE messages about how the users data won't be PROPERLY backed up anymore.
Then we can upsell them in an outrageously priced storage plan that won't even last a year of these daily backups so we can start the process over again.
Thankfully I noticed what was going on before it got to that point, but when they start vacuuming up all your files and data like that without telling you and without giving you control over it, you kind of have to assume that whatever is going on is not being done for your benefit.
It'd be hilarious if they did that but your paid for space was too low so they had to cut you off but they had already taken the liberty to delete the files before they synched
Mean while on windows 10, they are forcing updates with a creepy splash screen when you boot up. Can't exit, can't stop it, basically held hostage. This was on my old surface pro 4. Then the update screwsed everything up and I had to do a system restore....shits bad 👎
Been running Windows 10 on my gaming desktop for a while now and refusing to "upgrade" to 11 because of how much worse it was. Going to be doing a hardware refresh in a couple months and when I do I'm installing Linux. Thanks to Valve and a few major open source projects Linux gaming has finally reached a point where I can tell MS to fuck off with their enshitification.
My computer doesn't support Win11, so I have that going for me. Transitioning to the Steam Deck for my gaming, which has been a slow but mostly positive process. Some of the games don't play well outside of Windows, but none of the ones I really want to play, and I can always switch to my computer if I do.
What’s the big deal? Microsoft security is top notch. They totally didn’t get p0vvN3d by russia basically twenty minutes ago and have their source code stolen.
It’s why the US gummit is so happy to use micro$quash services.
And y’know even then, who cares if all your data is stolen by state-sponsored cyber crime groups, y’know? M$ has spared no expense to ensure all that data is secured end-to-end with unbreakable encryption even microsoft can’t read! (snkk) Even if they wanted to!
It’s not like they’ve tricked everyone into being data cattle for their giant cloud-ranching operation, to shovel everything into AI and sell the results to anyone at the highest price possible. I mean. We’d have heard something about that if it was the case.
To be fair, the DOD uses a different version of Windows than you, me, or any average company, with a custom set of agreements with Microsoft, a bunch of debloating of Windows-specific apps and the addition of a bunch of military/government apps.
I don’t know that to be true, but if so why has the history of Windows been a continual string of vulnerabilities, hacks, and weak security such as their own cloud service being compromised and their codebase stolen?
That is, if there’s a DoD “version” that’s more secure, couldn’t they make more money selling that? I dunno, they’re dead to me but they’ve never been short of people who want to use them for whatever reason.
Because DoD isn't concerned with the regular internet or unclassified machines as much as with the classified computers - those set up by Information Technician ratings and the Security Managers to handle SIPR and JWICS access. The Admirals, Generals, and O-6s are also often tech illiterate old men, and those just beneath that, and the E-7+ crowd, are often just as tech illiterate. Microsoft also has a lot of multi decade DoD contracts, which they get billions for. Microsoft can't sell the secure version because that just lets foreign adversaries reverse engineer all the possible vulnerabilities. Microsoft only cares about security as far as they get paid for it and can get away with. In the consumer market, that's pretty much zero concern - not profitable enough.
I mean specifically a cloud storage account. Setting up the computer required me to supply an email address and set a password for microsoft.com. There was nothing in that process that I recall mentioning OneDrive, or that would have suggested every file on my C drive was about to be indiscriminately uploaded to a Microsoft server somewhere. I didn't even know OneDrive was a thing until I had to google how to stop it.
I was having a conversation in another thread a few days ago about the legality of completely fictional AI child porn and how that may be a safer outlet for those individuals as it involves no harm.
It's legal in many countries, but also not legal in many countries.
In the USA, federal law says as long as its not obscene or has serious value its allowed, but really, good luck with those clauses. Then it says, it's also legal unless it's been transmitted by a common carrier, e.g mail, internet.
So, someone might be legally making their own CP so they don't need to cause any abuse, and then Windows without their permission, uploads it to OneDrive.
You know the person making fictional CP would be the one thrown in jail for transmitting it over a common carrier, but maybe we should throw Microsoft in jail for doing that without permission and fucking us all over, over and over and over again with all this bullshit
They're literally stealing your files. They're probably training their AI on anything uploaded to OneDrive. It's not like they even prompted you or gave you the ToS.
"fictional AI CP" isn't a thing. AI is trained on existing data. It does not create new stuff. If you want AI to generate CP then you have to train it on CP.
AI can create faces and bodies that have never existed. From there it might just take a lot of prompt engineering, but to say you have to train it on CP is false.
Edit: Also that's only considering life like CP. There's the whole cartoon/manga side of things which IS purely fictional at all times but will get you sent to prison if transmitted over an open carrier.
Can create faces that have never existed, but can you guarantee that the child in a CP that it has created does not look identical to a child that already exists? after all it can very well produce something using children directly from or very similar to its training set.
yea well there is no way to guarantee that AI wont spew out CP where the child there looks exactly like a child that it has seen in its training set, i.e a child that really exists. so no go
Oh god, you reminded me. I had a run in with this recently because my parents got new laptops. 1TB hard drive, should be plenty right? NO! My mom had 15GB of files in her home folders and One Drive was whining constantly to pay them for more space.
It was about an hour of debugging to keep the files safe, extract One Drive from the home folder locations because it had dug in like a virus, and then (after 20 online searches and scouring forums) click the specific toggle in the specific menu to disable One Drive so it would use local files.
I paid for a 1TB computer, why are you forcing me to use your shitty online-only limited-space shit show. Fucks sake.
also these idiots made onedrive folders mimic the original documents folder, also setting default to onedrive folder, so when i search for the downloaded content in my profile, documents i just WTF as its empty...
I hate this so much. I save as a new file for a new version. I expect it to go into the same folder by default like the file i currently opened and worked on. Nope, onedrive it is if you aren't careful.
Apparently it was wasting time trying to circumvent a product built to steal IP and invade privacy. Every update will reset any customisations and plenty have ignored group policy. Microsoft are implemtning access controls that will also remove the ability to customise as deep as you have been (kernel level protection) so bye bye admin rights.
You want a declarative operating system? NixOS. It will change how you approach templating and the standard environment.
Its config language and structure doco is annoyingly lacking but the community fills the gap with the added benefit of everyone sharing configs. Its also 2024, Linux is vastly different than it used to be. Hell nvidia is stepping up because cloud AIs..
One problem: not compatible with Windows. Of course you can use Wine and similar stuff, but isn't 100%, especially not when you're developing for Windows. Also there's the issue of NVidia drivers (I won't sell/throw into the trash my GTX1050 just because NVidia doesn't want to make their drivers open source), and also a lot of pro audio stuff isn't available on Linux.
Love how you cherry picked a bunch of old news not relevant . Its 2024, not 2003.
Development experience in linux is significantly better. Get off the cult and join the overwhelming majority industry which is built on it. Your skills and IP will be better off and protected for it.
If the microsoft product teams can develop on macbooks you bet your arse you can develop for any platform on Linux, and frankly most cloud platform preference opensource. Skill issue.
No thanks, I don't want to spend days troubleshooting issues with cross compilation, differences between Wine and actual Windows, struggling with the tty-only debugger (I want my debugger to do things on button presses, not by complicated scripts), etc.
Skill issue.
Oh, here comes the gatekeeper protecting their operating system from the "normies"!🤣
.net can compile just fine without it. Or choose one of the far more popular non Microsoft languages that wont have the problems expected simply because vendor lock in. If you are developing on .net your code is obselete with 15 vulnerabilities the day you release.
Skill issues.
Step away from the coolaid, take a step back and explore the industry at large
Since you use group policies and images (even if images are outdated nowadays) I assume you are trying to configure this for a company with an AD domain and M365 licenses. Since you couldn't use group policies with a domain and you can't use M365 features like OneDrive without licenses. I hope you are not allowing personal accounts..
Why wouldn't you use OneDrive in this case?
It's much better than the old way of home folders in a file share.
Anyway I'm half tempted to try and do it myself because I doubt it's impossible.
Not that I agree with using local accounts instead of domain accounts but fair enough.
It's much better than the old way of home folders in a file share.
arguably subjective
Yes, of course. IMO OneDrive is much easier for the end user instead of having to remember to store files in a share or using folder redirection which is prone to fail sometimes. Because using OneDrive they only have to store files where they normally store them and they get automatically synced and backed up to OneDrive. Something being easy is a huge benefit because it will ensure documents and everything else is backed up properly and it reduces support load.
Please tell me you have some kind of backup of those computers where you don't use shared storage or apparently anything "proper".
You don't use Windows home too, right?
Btw, GPOs only work using a domain. You are probably using local policies and those are sometimes not as likely to work.
Yes, of course. IMO OneDrive is much easier for the end user instead of having to remember to store files in a share or using folder redirection which is prone to fail sometimes. Because using OneDrive they only have to store files where they normally store them and they get automatically synced and backed up to OneDrive. Something being easy is a huge benefit because it will ensure documents and everything else is backed up properly and it reduces support load.
fair fair
Please tell me you have some kind of backup of those computers where you don't use shared storage or apparently anything "proper".
many backups and tape drives when we max out storage. we're good
Btw, GPOs only work using a domain. You are probably using local policies and those are sometimes not as likely to work.
You have backup and tape but not shared storage‽
Wut‽
I misunderstood what you meant by local accounts. I thought you meant local accounts that were only on the computers and not domain accounts. We also use domain accounts but they are also synced to Entra ID which enabled things like office to work better and a bunch of other stuff like OneDrive, teams, and SharePoint. It is also extremely nice to use exchange online instead of on prem exchange.
Personally it seems like a HUGE pain in the ass to backup workstations.
We never do that. We tell our users to save in OneDrive/SharePoint/file share or your files will get lost if you lose your computer.
How do you do the backups? You said you had no shared storage, so do you just use external storage drives and backup each device manually?
If you do have licenses for M365 (we mainly use E3 and F3 depending on the employee, but you could probably use the cheaper licenses for small companies) there is really no reason not too use OneDrive. It's convenient for the users and for IT. If you don't have licenses you shouldn't have to worry about OneDrive anyways because you don't pay for it.
You have backup and tape but not shared storage‽
Wut‽
I meaaannn we have one shared drive on the network when we want to share database backups and stuff with each other but for the kind of work we do we only really need to store the important stuff on git repos and external servers with a bunch of virtual machines
Yeah, but I was replying to someone that allegedly used local accounts (they meant domain accounts) and it wouldn't make any sense for it to be forcibly activated unless they already have a Microsoft license and if so it doesn't make any sense to not use it.
It is not even close to a good enough reason. First of all, I don't really give a shit about what other people do or don't do on their computers. It is not my responsibility. Second, sneaking in their cloud solution isn't the right move ever.
Let the user decide if they want it, enable it by default I don't care, but don't sneak it in like it's a fuckin trojan lol
Except it won't be their most important data. Either their very first files from their desktop (up to 5 GB), or random 5 GB files (no idea which). Once it's filled quickly, it will start nagging about buying more storage.
I think that it's quite bad if Microsoft puts peoples family photos on their servers without the user realizing it. That's not a niche privacy nerd sentiment, I think that a lot of people would find that creepy. Having the option easily available can be really good for a lot of non-techy people but it should be very clear what stays on your computer and what doesn't, and how to keep something private if you want to, which I'm not sure that it is if Microsoft quietly backs up Documents, Pictures etc.
Right, I recall news from years ago where a bunch of celebrities' very private photos backed up to iCloud were leaked. They may or may not have known they uploaded those to iCloud, I dunno. But imagine what's up there if you don't realize you're doing a backup. Not just photos, but like scanned documents with vulnerable information. And all that personal info in a centralized server is a big ol honeypot for a malicious actor.
It's not hard to see why this is a vulnerability, is what I'm getting at.
Actually, my father in law just lost 3 months of work yesterday because he synced his documents folder that had an old copy of his book on OneDrive. None of the cached files had his new stuff. Maybe if OneDrive was made well, it would prevent data loss.
Counterpoint: My sibling had their goddamn desktop ransomewared by this thing when they dared to uninstall it. It isn't privacy nerd sensabilities, Windows now behaves like malware under certain opaque conditions and at unpredictable intervals. This was four years ago on Win 10. How great do you think non savvy people are about clicking things they don't understand anyway and essentially springing a trap?
The problem is that they are not actively asking permission.
They are technically legally asking permission through the EULA, but nobody reads these.
Apple do this differently, they require the user to opt in for each of their services, and except for a pitiful amount of storage, the user has to pay for a useful amount of storage. This makes the user the customer, instead of the product.
They could make it easier to roll-your-own “cloud” storage by NAS, but I assume that it isn’t worth their effort.
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