Tryptaminev

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Tryptaminev ,

Anyone with a Jewish mother is considered a Jew and can choose to life the religion to that extent. However i am quite sure you will need to have made the decision and devoted your time to the necessary studies years before military service for the exemption to be granted.

Think of it this way. Any christian can decide to move to a monastery as a priest or nun. But if he wants to do that not to get drafted he should do that a bit earlier than the draft date.

Tryptaminev ,

What are you talking about?

The intensity of dairy and beef farming is magnitudes beyond what any natural population of cattle would look like. Also natural populations are in balance with each other. So if there would be more baby cows more predatory animal babys follow and eat them.

Your argumentation is started on a completely false premise and absurd.

Tryptaminev ,

A close to natural "population density" of cows is in the magnitudes of 1 cows per hectare of green land. Factory farms have hundreds of cows per hectare. So if the total population of cows would go down to 0-1% of todays farmed amount, that would reduce the GHG emission impact down to a negligible amount.

You are inventing a problem that doesn't exist to justify the continuation of factory farming.

Tryptaminev ,

Who could have thought the dozenth claim to be working together to improve something about the situation was just another smokescreen to continue the genocide with the aid of the US?

But as the popular saying goes, fool me a hundred times, shame on you, fool me a thousand times, maybe shame on me.

Tryptaminev ,

Because most of the military powers of the world are aligned with Israel and actively enabling and supporting this genocide.

It would all be over tomorrow if the US, UK, Germany and other fascist friends would stop sending any weapons, threaten sanctions and if necessary impose a no fly zone over Gaza. Instead Israel gets more F16s to be able to bomb even faster.

Tryptaminev ,

No no you see this is antisemitic. Israel is the most moral country with the most moral army. Hamas is always targeting civillians, Israel is just killing them without targeting them. And if they did it were actually Hamas fighters, and if they werent it was their fault. And if it wasnt then it was a mistake and if it wasnt that either then a single soldier stepped out of line and got like two weeks of community service for it, so Israel remains the most moral entity in the world.

Tryptaminev ,

In a world were the US, UK, Germany and others who still stand by the fascists in Israel weren't mass murdering fascists themselves it would be a reason for them to cut ties and sanction the hell out of Israel.

Tryptaminev ,

But the people are largely in support of the government, even if they are not in support of the specific members of the current government, although the voted them into power repeatedly.

Meanwhile the few Israelis that speak out against this are getting attacked by their countrymen. Especially practicing Jews who speak out for Palestine are brutally beaten up. Of course the West does not acknowledge this rampant antisemitism.

Tryptaminev ,

Stop spreading propaganda lies. Netanyahu said he will not stop until "Hamas is destroyed" aka the genocide is finished.

Tryptaminev ,

Ahh yeah? Like the international pressure against the ethnic cleansing and annexation of the Westbank before October 7? Like the international pressure after the murder of Shireen Abu Akleh? Like the international pressure when Israeli soldiers were openly praising their counts of murdered children during the peaceful march of return protests?

You think the countries that were fine with all of this and continued to be fine with the destruction of all of Gaza, the deliberate starvation and displacement of two million people and the genocidial murder of over 40.000 of which more than 17.000 are children would somehow start having a problem with that, when Israel got back the remaining 100 hostages?

You know this is bullshit and you are lying in order to justify more of the things described by distracting from them with bullshit tropes.

Israel's high court orders the army to draft ultra-Orthodox men, rattling Netanyahu's government ( apnews.com )

Israel’s Supreme Court on Tuesday ruled unanimously that the military must begin drafting ultra-Orthodox men for compulsory service, a landmark decision that could lead to the collapse of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s governing coalition as Israel continues to wage war in Gaza....

Tryptaminev ,

Note that there is two separate streams in there. There is the orthodox Jews that use religion as a shield like you say and are avid fans of Israeli fascism but dont want to get their hands dirty.

And there is orthodox Jews that are very outspoken against Israeli fascism, sometimes going as far as rejecting Israeli statehood as a whole and demanding a Palestinian state where people have equal rights regardless of religion or ethnicity and were land has to be bought and cannot be stolen by murdering the rightful owners.

Tryptaminev ,

Note that they are not following the Torah. There is many orthodox Jews who strongly reject the zionist project as the fascism that it is and see it as a grave sin. Those people are merely abusing the religion for their own material gain while showing no understanding of the Torah.

Tryptaminev ,

In civilized countries there is an understanding that noone is reading dozens of pages of terms of agreement, so any clause in there that is unexpected is automatically void. Expecting a software agreement to include rules not to distribute it further, break copy protection mechanisms etc. is normal so those terms are valid. But having all your data stolen is not something to be expected, hence invalid.

Tryptaminev ,

I hate this so much. I save as a new file for a new version. I expect it to go into the same folder by default like the file i currently opened and worked on. Nope, onedrive it is if you aren't careful.

Tryptaminev ,

Irrespective of whether people believe the prophets to be prophets the level of "proof of existence" they demand is often way beyond what is accepted for other historical people.

And frankly it is quite childish. There is rational criticisms of what happened between the life of Jesus a.s. and what is printed in modern bibles. There is a lot of rational criticism for various christian institutions like the catholic church or other churches.

And i think it is unsurprising when looking at groups like atheist memes. It mostly seems to be a self help group for people who struggled under bad christian parents, rather than a theological conviction. And i don't think that mocking Christianity is the healthy approach to reconcile with that childhood trauma.

Tryptaminev ,

His life is full of details that defy basic biological and physical laws.

Which is perfectly sensible given that he was given the power to perform wonders by god to establish that he is indeed a messenger of god. The entire point of wonders is them defying the otherwise imposed limits of the physical world. Because the only one who can grant this power is the source of the physical limits themselves and that is god.

This is logically consistent under the axiom that god exists. Which is what the scriptures are all about.

You can set the axiom that god does not exist. But as there is no proof of that, it is equally axiomatic. So given that your logic works on an unproven assumption you should not use it to criticize a different logic based on another assumption.

Tryptaminev ,

Then why is it that the message was so powerful that the Roman empire abolished its idol worship and chose Christianity? Especially as Jesus a.s. was supposed to be a rebel against the empire?

Do you think people 2000 years ago were all stupid?

Tryptaminev ,

Important notion that Jesus never claimed to be the son of god and that entire line of thinking was established some four hundred years after.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

So we have to differentiate between what is the actual Gospel and life of Jesus and what the more creative parts of the churches invented on top of it over time.

Tryptaminev ,

Again you are making an assumption as the base of your logical construct.

That assumption is that the "laws of physics" are absolute in the sense that you know them. This is already problematic from a scientific point of view because our understanding of what the "laws of physics" are were and are under a constant change.

The scriptures are based on the axiom that god created everything including the laws of physics so when he chooses to, these laws can be defied. You can disagree with that axiom, but that does not mean that the logic is inconsistent.

So if you want to be honest your argument is "I don't believe the scriptures, so i don't believe in Jesus" which is perfectly valid, but very different from "I know Jesus is impossible and i can prove it."

Maybe to make an example in science to wrap it all together. Before the invention of microscopes some doctors theorized about bacteria and viruses as the source of diseases. They often got ridiculed as "some invisible animals making us sick? Yeah you drank too much wine again" . Then the telescope came about and it could be seen what used to be unseeable for humans. Nowadays if you would claim there to be no bacteria you'd be rightfully ridiculed. But we also saw in human history that knowledge got lost and things that were established knowledge became bold theories subject to ridicule again.

So being honest to science and human knowledge the valid position is "I don't believe in Jesus like described in the bible, as it is inconsistent with what i can observe today, but i have no proof in either direction."

But this position is not more or less valid than "I do believe in Jesus like described in the bible." Or "I do believe in Jesus but not like described in the bible."

Tryptaminev ,

And the roman empire was not able to do that already? From my understanding mythologically/spiritually the Roman empire was perfectly settled with what it had before in terms of political power. Incidentally the roman empire declined and fell apart in the centuries after accepting Christianity.

And before the Roman empire there were the Egyptians. They seemed to fare much better in terms of power with their idol worship than later when they embraced Abrahamic religions, yet they did.

Tryptaminev ,

was written by people with no knowledge of physics

So why would they write about it and describe it as wonders? Do you think they did not understand that walking on water, giving life to the death, curing diseases on the spot and other things ascribed to Jesus as wonders were defying the conventional laws of nature?

The burden of proof is on the claimant.

Exactly. You claim to know that Jesus as described in the bible is an impossibility. So you have to proof that. All i want you to acknowledge, is that you are making an assumption, not providing proven knowledge.

And telling me I can’t assume that the laws of physics work all the time doesn’t really compel me to think otherwise since I’ve never seen any modern documented account of the laws of physics not working.

Ever heard of modern Physics? Relativity theory? Relativistic effects? All of these are the results of observations in defiance of classical Newtonian physics. There is an ongoing revolution in physics since a hundred years because we keep observing things inconsistent with our prior assumptions about the laws of physics.

Tryptaminev , (edited )

So do you believe the people 2000 years ago knew nothing about the laws of nature or did they? Did they understand that walking on water was something regularly possible or not? Did they understand raising the dead was something not normally possible?

Because that is your claim. And i strongly disagree because we have plenty of evidence that people understood the laws of nature quite well, even if they couldn't verbalize them in math yet. We have many ancient buildings and technologies that only work with a profound understanding of how physical matter behaves under normal circumstances.

EDIT: By the way i do not believe the bible to be an accurate description of Jesus, as there is an accurate description in the Quran. Still i don't claim to have proof that Jews, Christians or Hindus are wrong, because i have different theological believes. I acknowledge that my believes are that. And Atheists should realize that they also have theological believes, which is fundamentally different from knowledge about natural sciences.

Tryptaminev ,

Did i ever cite the bible as that? I also think the bible has many inconsistencies and looking at concepts like trinity or Jesus as literal son of god being introduced hundreds of years later, are things i also disagree with.

But i understand that theological differences are something different from scientific differences. And i think it is important to separate the two.

Because scientific differences can be analyzed with repeatable tests and empirical evidence. Theological differences are either a simple matter of different faith or they can only be discussed in whether the theology is consistent in itself. But that again relies on certain axioms, like math relies on certain axioms or many social sciences need to use axioms because of the complexity of empirical information.

Tryptaminev ,

I think this is a terminological confusion. The original Gospel as in the life and teaching of Jesus, that got lost as it wasn't documented in his lifetime.

The four gospels that made the choice are as you said collections written later. And there were many more Gospels that the early church decided not to put into the bible. On top of that there is the issue how those gospels got translated multiple times and each translation inadvertently adds a layer of interpretation.

Tryptaminev ,

Can you elaborate what you mean by that?

That god couldn't change the rules he himself created according to the scriptures? That seems pretty consistent to me.

Tryptaminev ,

You make good points. May i introduce you to Islam?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_in_Islam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran

The final prophet Mohammed s.a.s. whose life and effect are well documented as well as the direct word of Allah s.w.t., preserved as original in the Arabic language of revelation in the Quran. You should not though that according to Islam Jesus was merely a human messenger as Allah neither was born nor gives birth. In the same wake Allah is one and not three. But these concepts were added by the church to the Christian theology four hundred years after the life of Jesus.

Tryptaminev ,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

Jesus as literal son of god was only established some 400 years later. And when later the records of the gospel got translated through multiple languages it seems very plausible to me, that under the assumption that Jesus should be the literal son of god, this sentence is supposed to be worded to confirm that. It is as easy as forgetting a half sentence like "HE said" or turn a third person into a first person form. Or to loose the context that he was announced already before Ibrahim etc.

Tryptaminev ,

Yes they do. They believe, without evidence, that no god exists. This is specifically different from agnostics, who say that they do not know. So atheism is a form of faith, because they choose to believe something about the nature of the divine, even if that is the absence of any divine.

Interestingly there is also religious atheism for instance in some forms of Hinduism and Buddhism.

I always find it silly, when atheists proclaim to "believe in science" violating the very principles of scientific research by proclaiming something as factual and absolute they have no evidence for. If someone is true to scientific principles he'll say he does not know hence he is an agnostic. An Atheist however is always a person of faith, even if many people fight tooth and nail to deny it. Which brings me back to what i wrote here somewhere earlier in the comment chain that my impression is most atheists to be traumatized by bad religious practice or actors abusing the religion to harm them, and not having found a healthier way to address their trauma yet.

Tryptaminev ,

Why do you accuse me of something i never said?

A message being powerful is not in contradiction to it taking time to establish. If you look at the timeline you will see that it grew exponentially. and that the critical point was in the fourth century, after which it became the dominant religion in many parts of the empire.

That is how exponential growth works.

Tryptaminev ,

Which is why is said scientific arguments need to be separated from theological arguments.

Saying you believe there is no god is a theological argument based on a believe. It is not scientific.

Saying there is not observable physical proof or disproof of a divine power, which is agnostic, is in compliance with science.

Tryptaminev ,

Where did i say that it should be scientifically proven? I merely reject the idea that it is scientifically disproven or to claim that what has no scientific proof does not exist. This kind of thinking has rejected microorganisms, atoms, gravity and many other nowadays established things. Heck people acknowledge it to be perfectly reasonable to theorize about the existence of dark matter that is unobservable to us and holding the universe together.

It is simply unscientifc to claim to have "facts" against what is written in the scriptures as they describe events from 1400 to 5000 years ago. Not believing in them is perfectly valid, but it needs to be acknowledged as a matter of believe, a matter of faith and is in such in no way more valid than the believe that a scripture is true.

Tryptaminev ,

the burden of proof lies with the one who speaks, not the one who denies) is the obligation on a party in a dispute to provide sufficient warrant for its position.

Flying Squid said it is impossible what is described in the bible. So he or you if you take his side are the one burdened with proof. In fact the bible provides a very straightforward reasoning. Jesus was granted the power to do wonders by God so people would recognize him as a messenger of God and listen to him spreading the message of God.

You can say you dont believe in that. But it is not a proof of it not having happened. Especially as a lot of people who lived at the time said otherwise.

Tryptaminev ,

Tuesday coming after Monday is an arbitrary convention. In the same way that for natural numbers in the decimal system we called the number after one two and the one after that three. But we could have also called them three, two, one, four...

And yes i claim that believing there to be no god is a form of faith.

Think about it this way: God promises the believers who do good and ask forgiveness for their sins paradise and threatens the disbelievers with eternal hellfire. This is reiterated throughout history multiple times by prominent figures and the believe in god is the standard around the world. So from a rational risk minimizing point of view believing in God is the safer thing to do. Especially with how little religious practice Christianity requires compared to Judaism or Islam.

But to get to your core argument: Flying Squid claimed Jesus like in the bible did not exist because it is impossible for him to have existed in this way.

That is like saying you know for a fact Dragons never existed because there is no Dragons today. Now replace Dragon with Dinosaur and you see why this line of argumentation is problematic from a scientific methodological point of view.

So i think we agree that what is consistent with scientific methodology and what are matters of believes need to be separated in argumentation.

Tryptaminev ,

Colonial league of nations declare Israeli state after later to become Israeli terrorists have terrorized Palestinians and the British troops to force them out. Palestinians are not asked on the matter if they want to give those terrorists a fascist ethnostate on their land.

Fascist ethnostate gets declared, starts ethically cleansing hundreds of thousands of people.

Some neighbouring countries try to prevent that.

75 years of propaganda and brainwashing and people like you spin it like the Israelis are the victims, even while they are currently committing an even worse genocide and ethnic cleansing than they used to do back then and in between.

Tryptaminev ,

The Middle East isn’t divided by the US, it’s divided by its own history of imperialism, colonization, oppression and violence based on religious and ethnic lines accross the centuries. There’s really no incentive for the US keep the Middle East divided, not to mention that oil producing countries are already united through OPEC.

Ahh yes. The Middle Easts own history. Clearly has nothing to do with French, British or US being the colonizing entities... And after all why would the US be interested in dividing a region that is connecting 3 continents and has the mos accessible of the main strategic ressources of the past two centuries.

And of course all the plans of the US that specifically talked about destroying nations like Iraq and Syria and the invasion of Iraq to do exactly that... All coincidences! Who would be so mean to assume this to be part of larger strategies?

Tryptaminev ,

1...

And Israel and the EU help Azerbaijan to continue ethnic cleansing of Armenians, in particular Israel by sending drones in exchange for Azerbaijani oil

2..

The Kurdish identity was deliberately squashed by the Western imperialists France and UK when they drew the borders after the fall of the Ottoman empire

3...

Turkey went into Cyprus when a western aided fascist Greek military junta government tried to take over Cyprus and make it part of Greece with ethnic cleansing against the Turks in Cyprus. Calling it an illegal occupation is again a western imperialist narrative ignoring the complicity in attempted ethnic cleansing or worse genocide by the Greek fascist military junta government of the time. In fact Turkey stepping in was pivotal to the fascist military junta falling apart and Greece returning to Democracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus

So already in your first three points you are showing either a lack of understanding, or deliberately downplaying the effects of western imperialist rule and its continuation into today. Armenians are allies of Palestine as they understand that they are victim of the same forces. In particular the Israel-Azerbaijan axis shows that it is not about religion, but about classic imperialist motives of ressources, power and money.

Tryptaminev ,

Yes. Canada the infamously packed country with no space for people. Canada that is 10% larger than the US and has less than 10% of the population of the US. If there is anyone more person moving to Canada there wont be enough air to breathe anymore!

Tryptaminev ,

Canada is still not overpopulated in the temperate areas. 90% of Canadians life within a few miles of the US border. Canada is a net exporter of food.

Tryptaminev ,

“Stupid and petty” is how international bullies operate.

In other words any country having regional or global power aspirations.

Compared with the invasion of Iraq or Ukraine this is actually fairly moderated by China.

Tryptaminev ,

So you do agree that it is a fairly moderated act, compared two how the other two main powers in the world operate, which is outright illegal and mass murderous invasions.

Tryptaminev ,

Don't worry, we are already at that point. So called social democrats are mostly authoritarians and either protofascists or openly working to make fascism happen again. The so called conservatives usually are in with fascism again.

In Germany the government of Berlin, yes the supposed hip and free Berlin, had the bank account of a jewish political organization frozen by the state bank and demanded a list of all members with addresses claiming the group would be anitsemitic. The major of Berlin is a fascist who suggested police should release the names of juvenile suspects so the public can judge based on name, whether they are "real Germans" as opposed to just holding German citizenship. That was briefly before the election after which the social democrats threw away a left majority to govern with this fascist. Subsequently we have seen massive police violence, attacks on freedom of arts and science, freedom of press and freedom of assembly.

Currently there is a scandal revolving around the "liberal" federal minister of education in Germany who demanded the ministry to cut the funding of scientists who signed an open letter demanding peaceful campus protests not to be beaten up by cops and the government to recognize students rights to assembly and freedom of speech. Note that the open letter explicitly did not endorse the position of the student protests but merely the fundamental constitutional right to protest.

Fascism is not on the rise because of the Fascists. It is on the rise because the so called "centre" of european politics increasingly are becoming fascists themselves. "Liberal", "Green", "Social Democrat", "Conservative"... In many country these have been opening up to fascism extensively while larping as being against fascism because they too hang a rainbow flag out for pride month.

Tryptaminev ,

While that is true i would be suprised if Craig Williams is a Muslim. Not necessarily because there is no ethnically European Muslims, but rather because the rampant racism, classism and attacks against Muslims by the British Government, in conjunction with aiding the genocide in Gaza make it a much worse sin to serve under Sunak than any gambling could be.

Tryptaminev ,

It is deliberate. They further antisemitism by conflating Judaism and Zionism. Ironically they themselves consider that an act of antisemitism. The goal is fur Jews to be unsafe outside of Israel and justify the existence of Israel through that. As a fascist ideology Zionism needs people to be in perpetual fear and danger to justify its own barbarism.

Wikipedia declares Anti-Defamation League 'unreliable' on Israel, antisemitism: Report ( www.middleeasteye.net )

Wikipedia's editors voted to declare the Anti-Defamation League "generally unreliable" on Israel and Palestine as well as the issue of antisemitism, adding the organisation to a list of banned sources, according to a report by the Jewish Telegraph Agency (JTA)....

Tryptaminev ,

It is deliberate an in itself an act of antisemitism by the ADL definition, which is an irony they turn a blind eye to ofc.

The ADL is a zionist organization. They benefit from all Jews being lumped together with Israel and they strife from antisemitic attacks. This way the ethnonationalist idea of one state for each ethnicity and "no safety for Jews outside Israel" can be furthered. Incidently this is the same what Nazi style antisemites want and there is a history of collaboration between Nazis and Zionists.

Tryptaminev ,

The US is not a direct party to the conflict but they helped building it to help Israel get "normalization". Also the civil war is a proxy war, where the US does not want to get in the way of it ally Saudi Arabia who again is vital for the US strategy of dividing the Middle East over Israel and ensuring destabilization of the region while gaining access to cheap ressources.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/12/sudan-conflict-saudi-arabia-uae-gulf-burhan-hemeti-rsf/

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/29/world/africa/sudan-war-united-arab-emirates-chad.html

Tryptaminev ,

Fun history fact. The US and UK bombed Greek partisans who helped fight against the Nazis. This was done to ensure a far right dominance in Greece after the Nazis left.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_operations_during_the_Greek_Civil_War

Unsurprisingly the fascist Junta was good buddies with the rest of "civilised" Europe and the US.

Tryptaminev ,

It is also factually wrong. The "legality" can only be determined by a lawful process after the people fled. Seeking refugee is a human right and the EU is happy to annihilate it for non white people.

Tryptaminev ,

That is an oxymoron. Israel is a fascist settler colonial empire. Like the Nazis expansion into the East for "Lebensraum" There can be no Israeli Lebensraum without first killing the people living there.

The project cannot be finalized as long as Palestinians exist as a people, even if they are displaced. Especially not as long as the number of Palestinians alive remains significant.

Look at the US genocide of the native Americans.

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