I've said this before, but we also need to be cautious about this on lemmy and devise ways to empower mods and the community to fight back against this, I'm not entirely sure how since it's a very complex problem
It might help if a poster's number of posts and signup date were listed at the top of each post or comment. Would't be a fix but might help weed out upsprouting autotrolls.
There are a lot of subreddits which routinely award hundreds or thousands of upvotes for repetitive low value posts. ... This is a cog in the well-tuned machine of new-accounts being created and matured to look 'real' for when they are later used for advertising / manipulation later down the line.
In the early months of a new account, it is easier to spot. Eg. If you see a post on a game subreddit with a title like "Exciting to try this game, any tips get started?", you might click the profile and see that their entire history is a bunch of low-effort discussion starters. "Name a band from the 80s that everyone has forgotten"; "What's the most misunderstood concept in maths?"; "What's the most underrated (movie / band / drug / car / tourist attraction / whatever suits the topic of the subreddit)?"
A heap of threads like that, on a new account with a very generic name (adjective-noun-numbers is a common pattern); posting on a variety of subredits... is highly suspicious. But it gets harder to recognise as the account gets older and has a longer history - at which point it is ready to be sold / used for its next purpose.
I used to mod on /r/videos years and years back. We had this one guy who was not very active as a mod in the day to day stuff, but was respected because he'd basically disappear for a few months and then reappear with a huge post in our modding sub basically going "so these are all spammers/malicious actors, here's their profiles, the accounts were created in these waves, here's where they've copied existing posts / the identical generic comments and things they use to get around our posting requirements, the targets they've been promoting, etc". Just huge pages of thoroughly researched proof.
This was well before we had huge awareness of situations like Russia manipulating social media - it was usually those viral video places that buy up rights to videos and handle licensing and promotion. It's why for a long time any licensed videos from places like viralhog etc were outright banned - they were constantly trying to manipulate reddit postings in bad faith, and even trying to socially engineer the mod team in modmail, so any videos that mentioned a licensing deal in the description were automatically banned from posting.
If we didn't have that one guy spotting the patterns, most of it would have gotten by easily. Unfortunately he did eventually disappear for good. No clue what happened to him, hope he just cut out social media or something. But with the spamming and astroturfing stuff... Even after fighting it for years I can't tell you what to do to counter it besides "have more of that guy".
Most, if not all game reddits, product reddits, and company reddits are secretly or openly controlled by their respective corpos. Keeping communities as third party forums is a must have IMO.
I agree, this is a very complex issue. As a community we should come together and brainstorm ideas while quenching our thirst with a nice can of Diet Pepsi, the zero-sugar alternative to being thirsty!
Reddit is still a much more diverse group than the Fediverse, which is still sadly dominated by technical people, mostly men, of a generally very similar political position.
Also Lemmy and other forum-like instance types are the closest alternative to Reddit on the Fediverse, so it makes sense to let people on Reddit know that there is a more open alternative.
And just like the history of Reddit, from being niche and obscure to being ubiquitous and heavily trafficked, everything gets horrible when it gets big. The enshittification eye of Sauron is always watching, waiting for anything to get good enough to ruin.
No thanks, I’m a Linux user that is okay with being in the 2-4%. If it had a large market share, someone would find a way to capitalize on it. I’m also perfectly happy with my one and only form of social media staying small and cozy.
June 30th, 2023. There were always subreddits like r/thedonald that used violent right wing authoritarian cult-like political rhetoric, but after the users and mods who gave half a shit left when they banned third party apps and sided with advertisers over the people keeping it from becoming 99% bots and bootlickers.
I wouldn't be surprised if the ban was a pretext and the sub was just something admins found objectionable for their own reasons. Like as long as mods remove material and users when an issue is brought to their attention then the sub should be fine.
The fact they don't know why it happened is telling that they weren't given a real chance to correct the issue. Just centralised social media things I guess.
I feel like the real reason would be that Reddit suits know that Reddit is stereotyped as a gooner website and don't want people to think redditors are gooners, which is very wishful thinking as everyone already knows they are some of the biggest gooners out there online.
I believe the admins do get paid. It's the mods that were fucked over here that don't get paid. I was really talking about your overall contribution to humanity.
Reddit is notorious to responding to financial incentives. In the past they would ban communities only when they became toxic to advertisers due to overwhelming negative publicity. During those purges, they would often throw in some leftist subs to prevent the user-base political average from shifting leftward, but the purges were never proactive.
I think we've entered a new era where Reddit is no longer as concerned about which subs may scare advertisers, and are more concerned about which subs generate the kind of content that is valuable to LLM training. If I were training the next version of ChatGPT, I would be alarmed if a text prompt spontaneously invited me to masturbate with it, or prompts for images of a "battle station" resulted in walls of women having sex.
No. The goal of capitalism is to turn all things into commodities to be bought and sold. It has the growth pattern of cancer. Communism is a moneyless, stateless, classless society where would be free to focus on human-centred objectives like feeding and housing all people, making our environment sustainable, pursuing scientific and academic goals without need for a profit to be generated just for the sake of endless commodification.
Why wouldn't communism lead to cancer like growth? Wouldn't political leaders be incentivized by the masses for never ending quality of life improvements?
Money is not the problem, it's people. If replace the system, nothing changes. If we want sustainability, that needs to be desired by the masses, and that is achievable without communism.
“People” are not the problem. That’s Malthusian garbage. Capitalism is the problem.
Human beings use complex language and are capable of learning and developing culture.
Capitalism is a system that teaches and enforces greed, competition and exploitation. Capitalism is a system that demands infinite growth for the sake of growth. It’s nonsensical, and obvious that such a system leads to over-exploitation and collapse. We are currently the way we are because we’ve been forced to under this system.
We are capable of change, and learning to build communities and societies based on mutual aid, cooperation, and living in harmony with the world we live in.
If we start to build such communities we will learn to cooperate just as the capitalist system has taught us to be greedy and exploit each other for fear of ending up without the means to house and feed ourselves.
Why wouldn’t communism lead to cancer like growth? Because the objective isn’t endless expansion to make some imaginary line go up and hand over all the wealth to a small number of people. It’s to manage our world based on good science and achieving objectives that lead to a sustainable world in which all people’s basic needs are met.
There are countless ways of building communism, and all of them require constant work. And yes it’s true that if implemented in an authoritarian manner it would lead to a bad outcome (still not as bad as our certain extinction under any capitalist system). Anarchism (and there are many schools of thought within anarchism) gives us many tools to build communism in a libertarian manner where we keep each other in check, ensuring that no one person gains power over others.
Look at Rojava, revolutionary Catalonia, the Ukrainian Free Territory, the Shinmin Autonomous Region. These societies can work, expanded, and built upon if given half a chance.
Because once you reach a certain level, growth isn't required, you just divide the resources you have to give everyone a happy life. People don't need infinite money to be happy, but they do a need a minimum amount, studies have shown that. Capitalism denies that minimum amount to a lot of people because of its focus on accumulating and concentrating that wealth.
The Soviet Union threatened my parents and grandparents lives. My country did try it, we decided against it. All the issues that capitalism has, communism still has. Add centralized power, and human exploitation is worse. Communism will not solve your problems.
This is what people don't seem to get. Human nature is when things are bad we band together, when things are good, we compete against each other. Capitalism leverages the latter while communism just tries to ignore that it exists.
Capitalism certainly has its flaws, but it's a far better starting point.
It had some of the same problems but not all of them. It had universal healthcare, better rights for women, faster increase of education and literacy, less homelessness, less problems with religion interfering with politics, or companies buying politicians, etc.
It also had some new problems we didn't have like lack of focus on small commodities or suppression of religion, but that's not fixable or required for communism, it's just a focus they had specifically. It also had of the same problems we have just from being human, like anti-LGBTQ attitudes, racism against certain groups, bureaucrats, and wars. But communism's implementation changes between countries, none of those problems are necessary, it's just stuff that has to be learned from. For example, Cuba is communist but has made great strides towards fixing LGBTQ and racist attitudes, and has eased up on religion. China is communist but has a bigger focus on small manufacturing and as a result has lots of small commodities.
Imagine if we abandoned democracy the first time it "failed" in Greece thousands of years ago or the republic in Rome. I don't doubt that you have some relatives that suffered, but by comparison, the US and it's capitalist allies destabilized basically all of South America and Africa. While most people who were alive in the former Soviet block would prefer to go back to when it existed because it caused a huge economic disaster when they sold the countries off for parts and privatized everything for the oligarchs.
The important part is that it's a system not focused on things like GDP, growth, or money made by corporations to determine success, but the happiness and well-being of all the humans as a collective. Just focusing on that would go a long way, no matter which implementation we used (but imo it probably has to be an implementation of socialism or communism, because capitalism can't imagine a society without those money and growth metrics).
You can still bribe leaders in a communist system. Woman amd healthcare exist in lots of capalist systems.
While most people who were alive in the former Soviet block would prefer to go back to when it existed because it caused a huge economic disaster when they sold the countries off for parts and privatized everything for the oligarchs
Not even close to most. Make friends in Europe.
The important part is that it's a system not focused on things like GDP, growth, or money made by corporations to determine success, but the happiness and well-being of all the humans as a collective
Don't I have the power over my happiness in capitalism because I can work towards higher wealth extraction to achieve my own goals?.
Sure you can bribe people, but it's a harder when the wealth isn't concentrated in a few people, and the companies are owned by the people instead of private interests. USSR politicians weren't known for being rich, but compare that to modern Russian oligarchs, or even US Congressmen. A majority of the US Congressman are millionaires, not at all true for the common populace.
I'm going off statistics and surveys, not anecdotal evidence.
Don't I have the power over my happiness in capitalism because I can work towards higher wealth extraction to achieve my own goals?.
If you're lucky, but you can't work your way to being billionaire without exploiting people on the way. So, chances are, no. Statistically you're probably one of the people having wealth extracted than the other way around unless you have a supportive network, friendly investors or parents loaning you money. If not, chances are you're making it harder for other people, either who work for you, work with you, act as a reserve army of labor, or are victims of your country's imperialism. It requires some people to suffer as part of the system, but that's not sustainable. There's a reason the US has a shrinking middle class, and a growing fascism problem, and economic crises every 10 years. The UK and Canada aren't far behind, with some groups trying to privatize their health services and such. Europe will be next, with the democratic socialist Scandinavian countries probably last. So it may seem fine where you live now, but give it some years and you'll be right where we are, with someone trying to sell off your health services or other state assets. I'd be willing to bet.
We have universal healthcare and human rights everywhere in Europe. But we don't have authoritarian regimes which kill millions for ideology. Fuck communism!
You do, but you don't see it as that because the millions dying are in the Middle-East where you're getting your oil, Africa where you get your diamonds and coffee, South America where you get your minerals and oil, and Asia where they're assembling your manufacturing. And it took wars and imperialism and installed authoritarian puppet regimes to extract the wealth from all those places. Not to mention what do you think the monarchies of World War I and fascist regimes of World War 2 did? Give out puppies?
You guys are better than the US, but only because you're balanced by actual socialist and communist political parties and labor unions that are able to extract concessions like that universal healthcare. Looks like a few of those countries are turning fascist again, so just give it some time, and those human rights will be gone, too.
Yeah, only privileged people from Western countries who never knew struggle dream about communism. No one who went through communism will ever support that shit.
Well, while Marx does call for a "winnowing of the State" after the workers seize the means, a problem we saw, in countries such as the USSR, once some of these revolutionaries got their hands on the levers of power, they found they rather liked it, and would not have let go willingly.
I maintain that the issue is that they keep trying to have someone like a president. That doesn't work. You need a council that has executive power, that way if one person starts getting corrupted, they can be winnowed out. If you really want it to work, you need to outlaw political parties from day one, and require that no one that wants to hold political office is eligible to do so.
So, more like a sortition system, like how most Western courts select people for jury duty. Now that I think about it, it probably could work. We have wonders of technology that were once the realm of science fiction. These technologies could be leveraged positively in a communist system, I believe. AI in particular could solve things like the Numbers Problem. In a moneyless society, resources are allocated according to what is most necessary. I once watched a video where a problem was asked of the viewer. The scenario is as follows:
You are now the leader of a communist country. All markets and prices and money have been abolished. You want to build a train between City A and City B. There is a mountain between the two cities. You have two options. Option 1: Build a tunnel through the mountain, and Option 2: Build the track around the mountain.
1 will require less steel, but will take more manpower, as you will need more engineers to design and construct the tunnel.
Option 2 will require less manpower, but far more steel. That steel may be needed for other things, like appliances, medical equipment, homes and hospitals.
So, how do you prioritize resources? How do you know what your fellow citizens value more as a society?
You could do a survey, but then you run into the Numbers Problem. Your country has a lot of people. That's a lot of survey responses. You'll need nearly all of the available manpower in your country to sort them all. But with AI, that might not be necessary. The algorithm could collect all the responses and then output solutions to resource allocation based on those responses. To do this would require a massive surveillance network, though. People would no longer have much in the way of privacy.
But the nation does need a robust transportation system for people and resources. Both people and things have places they need to go. What's your solution? Unless you can build Star Trek-style matter-energy transporters, rail and road are your best options.
Just because reaching a true utopia is not possible, it doesn't mean we should settle for an economic system that is literally destroying the planet.
Despite what both conservatives and tankies want everyone to believe, marxism and comunism are not the same thing.
All marxists are communist, but not all forms of comunism are marxist, there's also anarchism, democratic confederalism and libertarian socialism.
If you have something better than suggest it, otherwise regulated capitalism is the best economic system we have. Marxism is as shitty as Fascism, it's not an alternative.
Wtf are you talking about? Communism is literally a Marxist idea. It is the utopia end zone that Marx envisioned for his ideology. Listing off a bunching of other fantasy based ideologies doesn't give this utopia any more credibility. It'll never happen. There's a reason why all the attempts at communism lead to collapse or tyranny.
No, communism is an authoritarian regime fuelled by a never ending genocide. Because there are always enemies of communism and they all must be killed.
While it certainly is a bit of a captain obvious moment that exposure to far-right echo chambers helped radicalise vulnerable people into the far-right, but I can see the merit in having empirical evidence supporting what we see (as OP said) - it is a lot easier to dismiss an andecdote than statistical evidence
One thing I've noticed over the years is that in terms of marketing, reddit has a disproportionately high level of return in interaction relative to its size, while Twitter has traditionally had a low level of return relative to its size.
For some reason, comments on reddit has always been viewed as more trustworthy relative to other social media platform, despite reddit or's general reputation for being confidently incorrect on many subjects.
There are certain people whose entire career was made by their reddit posts, yet, it was always odd to me that reddit never managed to effectively capitalize on this other than making their platform worse with every update.
I worked at startups and I'm not going to deny that I was absolutely horking my company as a solution for years on Reddit. Especially with niche products.
This was from 2014-2018, and then I left startups and worked in corps.
When Google has plans to slurp reddit comments, I bet I could gamify reddit even more.
To add on to the people pointing out that science is data:
Yes, it is incredibly obvious that the turmp fanclub subreddit would radicalize people to become white nationalists.
What is not obvious is that this is happening everywhere. And, if you get a hold of one of the "leaked" white supremacist recruiting guides from the 80s and 90s, that is by design.
South Park Libertarians and all but it really is telling how many people, to this day, insist that the f-slur for gay people is really "Oh, we took that back. it means obnoxious motorcycle drivers". Let alone statements like "har har, you are so butthurt" that (regardless of what urban dictionary says) are on the same level as "ha ha, you are gay"
We see it every day. And it makes communities hostile. And if you call it out, you get driven out. Which means there are fewer people around to say "... what the fuck? How can we think this is acceptable?". And then someone whose entire vocabulary is "lolzors go woke go broke pepe pepe" gets rightfully made fun of elsewhere and now they are a victim and all those "for the lolz" become their identity.
the f-slur can't be reclaimed for me, personally, I'm happy for those who do reclaim it but its just too painful as it's what I got called when I was badly hurt and was worried I would die as a 12 year old.
However, those who do reclaim it then use it around me, which just makes me think about what happened - involuntarily - and ruins my day (or part of it).
It's also tricky being a bi man in a het relationship in this regard, as if someone knows that it's hard to overcome their feelings that due to my partners existence, I now no longer have a say in these matters.
Yes, it is incredibly obvious that the turmp fanclub subreddit would radicalize people to become white nationalists.
They're polarizing and definitely hateful.
But as the volume got cranked higher and higher, I think it encouraged more silent disgust than popular approval.
You just couldn't see it under all the pro-Trump spam.
And then someone whose entire vocabulary is “lolzors go woke go broke pepe pepe” gets rightfully made fun of elsewhere and now they are a victim and all those “for the lolz” become their identity.
The online Shoot And Cry strategy. Always be the victim.
The director of marketing at my company just got out of a meeting with reddit and is super hyped at funneling all our Facebook and Twitter dollars into reddit instead. I didn't have the heart to tell him he's five years too late.
I scoped out reddit as a marketer for a few companies over the years. It's just a standard brand awareness piece. Unless their targeting has got better, I recall you had to dump a minimum of $10k/month and your ad just "got shown" to whomever
I assume they let you target by subreddit and user interest now, but it still can't be that accurate
Side note, it doesn't always fuck up, but most of the time it'll give just completely wrong matplot instructions. The recent tattoo post comes to mind.
It's good for python stuff, specifically, potentially because python as a language is the closest we have to a natural, descriptive programming language, and as an LLM that might make connections between functional behavior and language easier. That said, it sometimes tells you to do things that won't work because the libraries you're using have some specific incompatibility issues between them and the only way you can find out is via github issue discussions.
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