One pretty big factor to these getting bought is due to safety and for that reason I feel like we as a society has prioritized driver safety that we have sacrificed pedestrian safety
... occupant death rate was 6% higher in SUVs than in conventional cars, and 8% in the biggest ones.
... children are eight times more likely to die when struck by an SUV compared with an average passenger car.
... “These figures suggest that SUVs were probably killing around an extra 3,000 people in the US a year at that time – more than died at 9/11,” write Simms and Murray. Roughly a third of those died in SUV rollovers, and another third from being hit by one. The final third were being killed by respiratory problems because of the extra pollution caused by SUVs.”
Eh most of your points kinda proves my point of how we have been sacrificing pedestrian safety for driver safety the only considerable counterpoint you brought up is how SUVs are more prone to rollover and from what I understand about cars getting bigger is so crashing is less deadly but by being bigger you also make crashing more inevitable so I guess that's a bit of a stalemate argument
I'd argue that it sacrifices the safety of any other car that's smaller than it too, with sudans being the most vulnerable. No way a bumper difference of feet allows for the smaller car's safety features to work as intended if not bypassed entirely.
especially when lifted, if you're driving a corolla or some shit and get hit with a tonka truck you're getting mostly lower suspension, luckily it's still an engine block in front of you, but it's still fucking horrifying.
I've also heard that these things almost never get insured because they're a fucking mess.
Yeah crumple zones are enforced by the bumper so when you lift a car you're making the colliding car smash into the other above the bumper and gliding above the crumple zone if I recall the Ford pento was unfairly judged because the cars that were used to rate it's rear end crash safety had their front ends waghted down to simulate heavy breaking however it caused the cars to not only have more weight than normal but they also ramed into the pento going under the crumple zone and directly into the gas tank so I guess you can also make a argument for lowered SUVs and trucks to be just as bad as lifted trucks and suvs
it's not safety, i mean, well, it is safety, at the cost of the poor sod that you crash into and fucking kill. Or the children that you're statistically more likely to run over and even more statistically likely to kill if you do hit them.
You know what else is safe? Not ramming your car into a brick wall.
I'm just talking about car safety for the first bit here, not even pedestrian impacts.
From the US here. They have uses as work trucks but the majority of these bro-dozers are pristine and have have never hit any water deeper than a pothole in the road.
Everyone I know in the US that owns trucks like what op shared are all work trucks for general contractors or were bought to pull their giant campers. I know the bro-dozer community you're talking about but those trucks are not usually new trucks like op's. This is in rural America tho not the suburbs so maybe it's different in other areas.
Yeah I'm no mechanic but I think it's from the way their doing the suspension to increase tow load. I can't remember the truck models but it was the largest model vs the 2nd largest model had the exact same engine size and sp3cs but the larger truck had a way larger low weight than the other and I was told it all came down to the differences in the transmission and suspension. I 100% agree tho I have worked jobs that had trucks with beds that were so fuckin stupid high it turned loading/unloading to a 2 part or 2 person task. Once onto the tailgate. Second to move to front of bed when normally we could just give a good toss and load the truck in fraction of the time.
Work vans are the superior work vehicle for the majority of use cases. Lower bed/floor height to make loading easier. Covered rear so your tools/product doesnt get wet or dirty. Able to carry a ton of equipment, taller models you can even stand in and use a workbench in the van. The side of the van is large and flat making it easier to print large letters and numbers to advertise the company. Most modern work vans have better visibility than similarly sized trucks.
people keep saying that they have uses as work trucks and i'm not sure i believe them because they made smaller trucks in the 90s and 80s and those trucks were still for work?
I mean i've seen one of these things towing 5 fucking cars. I can't think of the last time i had to load up 5 cars on a shipping trailer and then ship them on my fucking daily driver. Honestly i didn't even think that was possible, but apparently it is, and i have no idea why people own these things as daily drivers now.
to be clear, my issue here is that saying they have uses is underselling the problem. You can hire a semi with a flatbed to ship a bag of sand. But that's fucking stupid.
Personally I live in Colorado and most people who drive trucks that size here use them for offroading. Given the gas mileage they're very impractical for day to day.
You know what's fucked, Standards Australia annouced they were considered increasing the minimum size for parking spots and gave only 3 weeks for public comment.
So many comments against, but I bet the car lobbies get their way anyway.
I've used huge trucks for bush work. Like we're talking going mudding just to get to work. This line of work basically put me in the position that is the subject of commercials that try to convince suburban dads that they need a huge truck in case one day their family goes on a fictional camping trip to the middle of a swamp.
Anyways, you know what I learned? These fucking things suck at off-roading.
They have shit visibility. You sometimes need to get out of the truck to see around corners, especially if you're cresting steep hills
They have a dangerously high center of gravity (I saw a bunch of coworkers roll theirs) that is only amplified if you carry large loads in their truck beds
Over-complicated features like traction control will actually kill your power if you're doing some technical driving, which will make you get stuck when you don't need to
There's no good reason for these pieces of shit to exist.
Get a properly sized pickup truck covered in dings and scratches showing you actually utilize the thing. Your penis is huge and you've got balls of steel! A paragon of masculinity!
This line of work basically put me in the position that is the subject of commercials that try to convince suburban dads that they need a huge truck in case one day their family goes on a fictional camping trip to the middle of a swamp.
This is so on point.
So many defenders go, "It helped when I had to haul shit to the dump" or "I bring wood back to build my shed".
What about the other 95% of the year? Because I rent a van to move shit and I'm happy taking the bus.
Or do what I did and pay cash for a beat up old truck to do those things with. Mine didn't even have a radio, the heat barely worked, but it hauled hog feed and garbage well enough. And I wasn't paying a grand a month in a car payment and insurance.
I volunteered driving ambulances. Started in high school, 2003-2004. Our rigs at the time were a '97 Chevy van with a box and a '99 F250 with a box. They were the biggest things I'd driven at the time.
Moved away, did life, came back a decade later. Newest rigs were now 2015 F450 Super Duty with a box you could legit stand up in. Thing was unnecessarily large. All the things you're saying are correct. The rig we purchased while I was there ended up being a slightly larger mod, but came with front, side, and rear cameras, because you're absolutely right, can't see shit. Blind spot in the front is legit 10-15 feet from the bumper.
You know what didn't change in that interim? People's windy, tiny driveways. I won't toot my own horn but I'm a good driver, I frequently tell my wife "You could fit a Mac truck through there" when she's driving and won't squeeze through a gap. So when it came time to back these rigs up these narrow, curving driveways, up a hill, it was difficult. I'd have my crew get out generally and go begin assessment so I could get the rig in place for takedown. Problem is that I couldn't drive all the time, and so the rig would frequently get left down on the road. And I don't blame anyone, they were difficult maneuvers. I knew a few members who outright refused to drive the newer rigs becaude they were so massive, so now we've neutered our manpower.
There's no good reason for these pieces of shit to exist.
So did you start taking an old civic to the in-the-bush job site then or what?
Edit: Or a midsize pickup or SUV or something? Helicopter? The down votes here are pretty absurd lol. I'm trying to figure out what vehicle to take to in-the-bush job sites in the future that can better handle the conditions, which the person I replied to specifically pointed out.
Or just a regular sized pickup truck, which I've also used for plenty of sites. But honestly I prefer the mules because they hold all the stuff I need for work and can fit through most forest understory. And in the rare chance that you happen to turtle them it's possible to pull them off/out of whatever they're stuck on. If you get a giant truck stuck in the mud you're donezo.
I also took my Toyota Prius to plenty of sites, although I'd never off-road with it when the ground is swampy or sandy it did fine on plenty of rough roads and open fields. I'm sure a Subaru or other small all wheel drive sedan could handle lots of off-road work sites.
Thank you! Makes sense. I think I was sort of misreading your statement initially. And I guess I never really thought about the 350s and aboves useful applications (or lack thereof lol).
I'll add my Honda Element did surprisingly well for many 1000s of km of rough logging roads once upon a time.
My uncle did a four wheel driving day in his Subaru Forrester one time and it could climb hills others couldn't because it was so light.
I've also heard stories of farmers with tiny 4x4s like a Suzuki Jimny using them during floods because they don't sink in the mud like the massive ones do
I prefer driving smaller cars in heavy snow because they're light enough to sit on top and not get bogged down. Back when I had a commute in my tiny little Scion xA I'd drive by bro-dozers and SUVs stuck in the snow thinking their four-wheel drive would save them from being idiots.
Not to mention they don't even fucking fit in off-road situations half the time. Unless you're in a wide open field or have giant cleared roads (in which case why do you need an ultimate off-road machineTM), most off-road situations in the eastern US are going to involve trees. Try driving around trees in that thing and you'll be stuck in a matter of minutes.
For all the actual off road work I've done, the best vehicle has always been those little utility off-road vehicles (we call them mules or gators but I'm sure they have a real name) or just a regular-sized pickup truck with 4 wheel drive and low gears.
For all the actual off road work I’ve done, the best vehicle has always been those little utility off-road vehicles (we call them mules or gators but I’m sure they have a real name) or just a regular-sized pickup truck with 4 wheel drive and low gears.
UTVs, side by sides, i've seen stuff like that used to refer to them in a more generic manner, shockingly those are so good primarily because they weigh nothing and have comparatively huge tires with way more surface area, while also having equivalent power if not more, just due to the size.
Anyways, you know what I learned? These fucking things suck at off-roading.
no shit, they're running live axle suspension, no amount of lift kit is going to get your diff case unstuck from the mud LMAO.
Doesn't help that these idiots also put small tires on big rims to get that bafflingly stupid look on them, which lowers the ride quality, and lowers the axle even more.
I'm convinced you have to be brain damaged to own a bro dozer, let alone think an f150 with live axles can get around in mud. Bro almost nothing can, a humvee might do it, but it's also literally built to do it. It's got full independent suspension, nice large tires with high sidewalls, portal axles for increased clearance. It's got a low cab, set next to the engine and transmission (that's why they're so wide) They're short, so they can get around trees and shit and likewise have a low CG.
And f150 looks like it was built to be a parody of a hummer, and it's no surprise that they drive and handle like shit as a result.
Completely. Give me a light Geländewagen (and I’m talking about the utility version that armies buy, not the blinged up Chelsea tractor version), with triple differential lock and it’ll out-drive these monster trucks any day, on any terrain, pulling the same weight.
As someone from Texas, these are disgusting, and people driving this garbage are not friendly towards pedestrians at all. They have no self awareness sitting inside these killing machines.
The only reason for 99.9% of people to drive this garbage is to feel big when on the road. How petty.
There is also the factor of danger and safety. People are observing more gigantic cars on the road and being in a smaller one makes them feel unsafe. So they get a bigger one when they get a new car, perpetuating the problem.
Many of my family is in this. They keep getting bigger vehicles because they get the sense of safety. They cannot grasp how bad that mentality is and how wrong they are. And with bigger vehicles, it means that much less room for error too. And most people suck at driving. Not all the time, but that one time you make a mistake (as we all do) could be a big one in an oversized vehicle.
Useful for carrying massive things every single day, completely useless for all other purposes.
I noticed that car owners never use their cars to their fullest potential. You have all this additional space just being permanently unused, which just worsens highway traffic. Not to mention all the additional pollution you're now responsible for because that big ass car is not an EV.
Just get a regular sized car if you don't wanna bother transporting 3 grand pianos to the same two places every single day. Oh wait, now you have to retune them too.
The bed of those massive trucks isn't big enough to fit a single grand piano, much less 3. They just made everything else bigger. The beds are still the same size as a 1980s Toyota pickup.
The beds are so tiny on some of those trucks, they're useless for any cargo job, at most they're useful for camping trips, so you can throw a cooler back there, and some bags. Maybe haul a small boat.
We call them "daddy's little boy trucks" where I live.
Both my brother in laws have huge modified trucks, both live in cities, both complain that the road infrastructure and parking doesn't cater to their large vehicles... Also both have (probably) never used the truck bed.
They are so huge, tons of room in the cab. Feels like driving in a living room. Have to ride over curbs to get out of parking lots though
I once asked a friend with a truck to help me pickup a BBQ. When attempting to load it he got so worried about us scratching the truck bed that eventually we couldn't proceed. Called another buddy with a minivan, we put a moving blanket down and off we went. No whining, just work.
...minivans are fantastic purposeful vehicles and probably what one-quarter of SUVs should be driving; the other three-quarters should be driving cars if they hadn't been swept up in the road-tank arms race...
Is it any better than the people that screenshot instagram or Facebook to share on other social media? I’m not a fan of the low-effort share, all these platforms’ users are low-effort and rip off each other’s work to re-re-re-share it everywhere. I don’t see people here being too much different or Reddit content being any more objectionable than the rest.
I think people should need a licence to drive anything that has a tall nose. The chance of fatality is really high for those cars and people need to be taught that.
I just want to put a small barrier between people and buying a car that's may more dangerous than any reasonably sized alternative. If people want storage space they should buy a station wagon. If they want to transport for work they should buy a Caddy type. If they want to go outdoors offroading then they should get a licence on how to drive offroad and how to prevent front-over accidents etc.
SUVs and bigger cars are becoming the default choice and I think that's a bad thing.
Honestly, they know that. But fashion is fashion, and people's desire is rarely logical. So that barrier...I don't think it will work any better than actual idiot tax. The only offputting thing would be price.
There's already an idiot tax, a crossover costs 50% more than regular. Price is not an issue for people that buy these but a license, course and having the license easier to revoke for speeding in pedestrian zone might work.
Fr, I would call every single one of those a "crossover" before I called them station wagons.
That Volvo v60 is the closest thing to a modern station wagon. If it doesn't have 3 big side windows from front to back, it shouldn't be called a station wagon.
If people want storage space they should buy a station wagon. If they want to transport for work they should buy a Caddy type. If they want to go outdoors offroading then they should get a licence on how to drive offroad and how to prevent front-over accidents etc.
Most people buying one of these expended exactly zero seconds of thought on what they need from an automobile.
If someone even managed to get any law in place like what you're suggesting (which they won't because it goes against the interests of business), the right wing idiot backlash would be furious and cacophonous and the net result would be Florida marking a day on the calendar as state wide "Ford-fuck-you-mobile" day.
mogs are cool, i don't know much about them because they seem to be primarily european, but i will probably own one someday out of curiosity, i only hear good things about them.
Personally i'm a fan of industry trucks though, tatra, oshkosh, unimog, the usual suspects. Ford can eat shit.
I agree you already need a license to drive a semi trucks I believe but just as someone who dailys a little itty bitty BMW z3 and works at a Toyota dealership and has driven 60s international harvesters anything bigger than a jeep wrangler takes time getting used to being tall and bulky hell I've seen people driving in the middle of the road because they got acclimated to driving a corrola and just hopped into a f150 as a man who has flipped my ATV making trails off roading no matter what your in you need to be instructed on the ins and outs of off roading I'm so onboard for making a sort of truck driving license
The width of these things as well. You probably couldn't fit that in my driveway without taking the mirrors off. If you somehow managed it, you'd only be getting in and out through the sunroof.
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