I personally own Ioniq 5 but that is because Hyundai has better after sales support in my country than emerging Chinese OEMs.
Not to mention existing Chinese cars currently do not possess enough battery capacity and efficiency for my taste.
Once they fix that atrocious after sales support, I will reconsider them.
FYI, Wuling Air EV probably has the 2nd biggest sales number here in my country but people who own them complain alot about maintenance and spare part supplies.
Well, this is the fault of the western car brands. They fough transition to EVs with tooth and nail. They wanted to keep fossil fuel cars at all costs. And now they either have nothing at all, or they have to scramble to keep up.
China has over procedured EVs because government subsidize resulting in poor manufactured cars with a lot malfunctions + safety requirements are very lose in China.
The goal is to flood the market, so they competitions can't sell their cars and eventually lose market share.
ICE cars are just as reliant on computers. Have you seen the articles on "your car is spying on you" and BMWs heated seat monthly fee?
Plus, when you consider all the emissions controls required by the government versus the car companies trying to make the cars exciting for the consumer, the whole thing ends up one big giant mess of computer and sensors.
Go UAW, fight for higher wages and better working conditions
Also Lemmy:
I demand the cheapest car possible, I don't care if its built by slave labor in xinjiang. If western companies can't compete with third world labor costs then they're obviously inefficient and don't deserve to exist.
It’s the same thing the right does with government. It is a truism that there is all sorts of “inefficiencies” where the money is going to the wrong people for the wrong stuff.
In both cases, it’s sort of correct and sort of wrong. Corporations, governments, and any human institution beyond a certain scale (a few hundred people), will leak wealth into places it shouldn’t. It’s an unavoidable feature of our species as best I can tell.
It’s fine to accept it, it’s fine to be angry about it. It’s silly to blind yourself to it in some places and whinge about it in others.
I mean I'd argue there's some serious room to help out the consumer since the price of cars has been outpacing inflation pretty handily since around 2014 (and been beating it into a bloody pulp since 2020). There is some insanely obvious price gouging going on when the average price of a new car in 2024 is over 49k. There is room for BOTH higher wages and at least semi reasonable car prices for the American consumer. In my eyes if you clearly aren't willing to help me as an everyday clearly struggling American today, then goooo right ahead and kiss my ass as I buy foreign if it's cheaper.
That added cost came in the form of dealer markups during COVID that never went away since theyre still selling. The manufacturers don't have much control over what the dealerships do.
The average purchase price has gone up because people are buying more expensive cars, eg. Large trucks, SUVs, luxury sedans, high end trims etc. not because cars are getting more expensive.
If you look at lower end sedans there price hasn't changed much. For example if you look at the Chevy Malibu the current base price is $25,100 , in 2014 the base price was $22,340 or $29,400 adjusted for inflation, in 2004 it was $18,700 or $31,067
None of those are close to the $10,000 cars coming out of China because you just can't make a car for that cheap in a country with high labor costs like the u.s., or even Japan or Germany.
They managed to survive the Japanese/Korean car invasions (with some help). They will certainly try with China although it's trickier for a lot of reasons.
As opposed to China where there totally isn't a massive wealth gap between factory workers and their executives! Not like the CEO of Xpeng is worth 1.4 billion or anything...
Income inequality rhetoric ignores that a class can reap the benefits of work via public investment (e.g. a bullet train), even if bosses make more as individuals. Working Chinese people are seeing the fruits of their labour despite billionaires and inequality. To recriminate them for not demanding more is recriminating the virtue of patience.
In fact, much of what passes for “socialist” idealism in the West turns out to be a mirror image of bog-standard liberal-capitalist entrepreneurship propaganda: “I will be my own boss! I will run my own business!” This idealism appears unaware that the necessity of management is foisted upon us by logistics, not capitalism. Denial of this reality results in fantasies of perfect synchrony between perfectly autonomous anarchists.
The “Fully Automated Luxury Communism” dream, embraced more by pundits with cushy lives than working people, also reveals a dark truth: western “socialists” have some awareness that a more equal world will mean losing first-world privileges. They cannot conceive of things getting better steadily and slowly, with hard work. And so they are forced to denigrate the Chinese road of self-sacrifice in favour of leisure-driven utopianism. The reality is that the victory of the working class over the capitalist class will usher in an era of hard but rewarding work, as opposed to hard work without reward.
Sure man, I guess the nets on the sides of the factory buildings are there to catch workers who are jumping with joy because their work is so rewarding.
I don't deny that China's economic ascendancy has been remarkable and a big win against poverty, but now that people have gotten past the starvation phase, I don't think you can use the "high tide raises all boats" analogy. It sounds a lot like tricke-down economics to me, with some hand-waving that things are different in China because the wealthy elites are actually generous patricians.
It's refreshing to see Volkswagen taking customer feedback seriously. Bringing back physical buttons and controls in future models is a smart move towards improving user experience and addressing user preferences. This customer-centric approach shows Volkswagen's commitment to listening to its market and adapting accordingly. Looking forward to seeing how these changes enhance the driving and usability of their vehicles!
The physical buttons aren’t attached to anything though. It’s still software. My ford buttons glitch out when the soft buttons and steering wheel buttons do.
It's because they cheaped out and used (cheap) electromechanical switches for the buttons and electromechanical rotary encoders for the knobs.
If they used magnetic hall effect switches they'd never glitch (unless the microcontroller itself is glitching). Hall effect switches are forever.
(And no: Even cars in Arizona don't get hot enough to wreck rare earth magnets... They'll lose strength slightly above 80°C but not enough to matter since the car knows its internal temp and can compensate if they didn't get the better sensors that auto-compensate).
For reference, hall effect switches and encoders aren't really that much more expensive for something like a car where you're going to be using/making millions of them. It probably saves pennies per car to use the cheap switches.
What I don't get is this constant cheating where they don't have to.
Even where making a real thing with its advantages is cheaper or same, they'll still make it dependent on something that breaks.
Well, it would be advantageous where no competition will do the real thing. But we have competition, right? Free markets, right? No cronyism, right? LOL
Physical buttons have wiring harness failure, mechanical failure, and software failure...pretty much exactly the same amount as the touchscreen solution.
What boggles my mind is that cheap, snappy, easy-to-use touchscreen interfaces have been a solved issue for well over a decade with the proliferation of smartphones...why the hell do car manufacturers suck so much at implementing it!? They're all slow bug-ridden shitshows.
I feel like a lot people on Lemmy, and people in left-leaning spaces in general, kind of have a blind spot on this one. People get that buying local is good, but not buying American.
It matters where your money goes. People complain about the soullessness of modern American life, and how hard it is to find a good job, and how democracies are backsliding around the globe, and then they buy things from China that are cheaply made and, at most, slightly better value in the long run.
This isn't me trying to be nationalist or xenophobic but whenever anyone (including me because there's no way to completely avoid it nowadays) buys Chinese goods you are supporting a government that is aggressively un-democratic, that actively supports Russia, and also has basically zero labor laws and an absolutely enormous wealth gap between the ruling class and the working class.
And yeah I get a lot of Americans are hurting right now due to inflation but the solution isn't to send money overseas. The best thing you can do for your neighbor is buy union and buy American.
Voting with your dollar is a myth (it's a myth that workers have any vote, not that the dollar controls the imperial core). China offering a viable alternative to not being able to afford cars because companies have arbitrarily inflated prices is great. Arbitrarily spending a lot more money that will mostly go to shareholders in the US is not going to help the worker
Voting with your dollar is a myth? So if the IDF (or ISIS, if you prefer) drops an amazing new EV for $10k, with all money going straight to weapons procurement, you'd buy it?
Very much a strawman argument. China can offer cheap electric cars because they aren't paying american car company CEOs. Also, your argument supposes that American manufacturers aren't supporting IDF...
Their labor conditions are significantly worse than modern American work conditions let's not kid ourselves. Although this never bothers people when it comes to goods made in Mexico.
Yes, let's try to pick apart the one hyperbolic statement he made and completely ignore all of his other valid points. Let's also link a very biased article about Wikipedia that has absolutely nothing to do with anything as some sort of proof that China is some bastion for workers rights. It's not like they literally force people into labor camps simply for being minorities or anything.
The US is far from perfect but let's not pretend they somehow have worse labor rights than freaking China.
Article 17(2) of the Revised Company Law now stipulates that the assembly of employee representatives shall be the basic form of the democratic corporate governance system and that this shall apply to all companies. That means, regardless of whether a company is private or state-owned, whether it is a limited liability or a stock corporation. This is a notable development, as democratic corporate governance as a requirement for all companies is set out in national law for the first time.
An Employee Assembly shall be convened at least once a year, and more than two-thirds of the employee representatives must be present at the plenary session of an Employee Assembly. Elections and votes on relevant matters at an Employee Assembly require a majority of all employee representatives.
"Buying American" would be exporting money for me, and there's no domestic car manufacturing anymore. So I'm sending money overseas no matter what I buy, and it's probably all made in China anyway… :P
All cars should cost 500k minimum and roads should stop being built, also cap all auto-industry salaries and annual shareholder payouts to 500k with the rest overflowing to the workers. Within 20years seeing a car in America will be rare, within 50years, we'll have solved climate change.
Wrong:
According to the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), motor vehicles produced about 22% of total U.S. greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions in 2020, making them the most significant contributor to the country’s emissions.
Sounds good. In the meantime I'll be taking an electric train to a brewery that is currently a 2hr drive from me since I'm no longer slaving away so that MIC executives can build planes that don't fly, for a war that isn't going to happen.
It's the only system that works (if you ignore the planned economy that has built 45,000km of high speed rail and has a home ownership rate of 90%+, and has more green energy production than the rest of the world combined)!! That's basic economics!!
Jokes on you, I can actually already take a train from Chicago to Kalamazoo and enjoy a beer from Bell's Brewery. It's not a high-speed train to get there, but that can be upgraded if there was ever the desire to do so.
Ah yes the old "ban living in rural America" strategy, that will play well. Reliance on cars was a mistake but its too late to just pretend a lot, if not most, Americans need a car to live.
Most of rural America wasn’t served at all, you had to travel to a town with a train station. For smaller towns, no lines were ever built. It’s a completely unrealistic idea. It also doesn’t address the issue of local transport.
Until they're testing and pass NHTSA standards, fuckin nope.
Maybe people will change their minds once they see the aftermath of high speed crashes in these things. Or crashes with a MUCH heavier vehicle. With the weight of EVs these days you NEED a car that's designed around safety.
insideevs.com
Top