insideevs.com

Zerush , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry
@Zerush@lemmy.ml avatar

Even Xiaomi has released the SU7, a real Tesla killer and also way cheaper. But not for the US market, but for the EU.

delirious_owl , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

What's their e-bike situation like? Are there good ones or will they blow my nuts off?

CoffeeJunkie ,

Yes

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Recommendations?

CoffeeJunkie ,

Oh I was making a joke, like you posted an 'or' comment & I replied Yes like it will do both. 😂 Good bike, blows your balls off.

I've been looking at Super73 for years as a CLASSIC styling, really handsome ebike. YouTube search for things like Survival ebike, ebike for preppers. Because you'll tap into a whole community of people that want good & tough ebikes, not flimsy crap, ebikes that should be good relatively long-term. I trust Canadian Prepper; this video is a little older but information & considerations tend to be relevant years later.

I saw another prepper cheaping it with $700-800 ebikes, if I find it I'll post name & link...

Anyway jokes aside I hope that helps. Idk your situation but I'd almost be tempted to wait just a few more years; pandemic/oil prices have pushed so many ebikes into the wild & that has brought about soooooo much real-world testing & consumer feedback. I'm thinking the ebikes just a few years from now will be so much better, and possibly for cheaper or the same price.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

In my experience preppers buy things that sit in their storage space unused. I want something I can use hard (as a cargo bike) several times per day, every day, for decades.

CoffeeJunkie ,

This is a valid criticism that we talk about...working through supply, using supply, and becoming familiar with it is actually the ideal we should all strive for. 🙂 Idk about any bike, electric or not, that can withstand hard use several times/day for decades. (o_O) But product design is getting better all the time!

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Oh, I definitely know bikes that can survive hard use for decades. Of course you have to change wearing parts every X thousand km, but the bike should last generations.

What I'm unsure about is the e-bikes. I really don't want the battery to catch fire or explode. And the motor should last generations.

CoffeeJunkie ,

This is actually super great timing. I'm guessing by safer, they mean, won't blow your nuts off. 🤭 Might be a good community for us, too.

https://fedia.io/m/[email protected]/t/764970

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Some of the best bikes that last decades were built in the 1970s. There are some machines that don't get more durable when you throw more R&D at it.

Breakthroughs in product design for nonelectric bikes have been mostly optimizing weight, but very minor improvements that don't apply steel cargo bikes built to last generations.

Wahots ,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

Even some domestic brands like Juiced go on sale for like, $1,200 for a Juiced Ripracer. Aventon appears to make good stuff too, if you want bike shop support. I've had my bike for a month and put 320 miles on it. Fun little bike :)

https://pawb.social/pictrs/image/f6c7b7c8-5203-4503-861e-06c097aaeace.jpeg

huquad , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry

Auto industry looking at their overly inflated prices, "well well well, if it isn't the consequences of my actions."

whotookkarl , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry
@whotookkarl@lemmy.world avatar

Not scary for the auto workers who want to work on them, build them, supply parts for them, etc or the families who want affordable EVs. More scary for the wealth class who didn't reinvest enough into updating their facilities and processes to stay competitive businesses. The government already gave them extra time with the embargo but that isn't going to last forever.

lmorchard , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry
@lmorchard@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Yeah, I'm a weirdo with a cargo e-bike. Love it, except when it rains or snows.

I'd love a sub-$20k street legal EV that skips the entertainment system and most other features. Just give me a weatherproof cabin with comfortable seats and a modest cargo capacity for groceries and small appliances. I'm only ever going to drive it for at most an hour around town and back. Maybe listen to a podcast from my phone. Stick solar panels on the roof and it'll probably always be topped off for how infrequently I drive. I'll rent something if I take a longer trip.

lemann ,

Yes, this please. Although I don't have a cargo bike, I load up all 3 sides of my pannier and fill a backpack with my cargo 😅

umami_wasbi ,
lmorchard ,
@lmorchard@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Yeah, totally. I'd also love to see like a rack of those for rent, every few blocks in my city. That'd be near perfect

PowerCrazy , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry

All cars should cost 500k minimum and roads should stop being built, also cap all auto-industry salaries and annual shareholder payouts to 500k with the rest overflowing to the workers. Within 20years seeing a car in America will be rare, within 50years, we'll have solved climate change.

venoft ,
@venoft@lemmy.world avatar

Cars are like 5% of co2 emmisions. Until they ban dirty ship oil and curb industry emissions (world wide), nothing will change.

PowerCrazy , (edited )

Wrong:
According to the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), motor vehicles produced about 22% of total U.S. greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions in 2020, making them the most significant contributor to the country’s emissions.

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/fast-facts-transportation-greenhouse-gas-emissions

Also you should probably note that the automotive industry is also contributing to world emissions.

Truth_Hurts ,

We will be long dead as China will have taken over the world if we implemented these policies and crippled our economy and military because of it.

PowerCrazy ,

Sounds good. In the meantime I'll be taking an electric train to a brewery that is currently a 2hr drive from me since I'm no longer slaving away so that MIC executives can build planes that don't fly, for a war that isn't going to happen.

Truth_Hurts ,

You certainly won't be doing that in America lol. Unrealistic in the next 30 years at least.

Have to keep going and ensure survival so that we can get to that point.

Zeroxxx ,

The sheer aura of capitalism is so strong in this post.

Fidel_Cashflow ,
@Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml avatar

It's the only system that works (if you ignore the planned economy that has built 45,000km of high speed rail and has a home ownership rate of 90%+, and has more green energy production than the rest of the world combined)!! That's basic economics!!

PowerCrazy ,

Jokes on you, I can actually already take a train from Chicago to Kalamazoo and enjoy a beer from Bell's Brewery. It's not a high-speed train to get there, but that can be upgraded if there was ever the desire to do so.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Why not cap shareholder payouts to $0 and nationalize one of them?

PowerCrazy ,

That sounds like socialism. I'm proposing a market based solution which as we all know is the only possible way that things can be done.

billgamesh ,

lol

LaLuzDelSol ,

Ah yes the old "ban living in rural America" strategy, that will play well. Reliance on cars was a mistake but its too late to just pretend a lot, if not most, Americans need a car to live.

PowerCrazy ,

Did you know that before cars, people lived in rural america and that most of rural america was served by trains.

metaldream ,

Most of rural America wasn’t served at all, you had to travel to a town with a train station. For smaller towns, no lines were ever built. It’s a completely unrealistic idea. It also doesn’t address the issue of local transport.

Not_mikey , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry

Lemmy:

Go UAW, fight for higher wages and better working conditions

Also Lemmy:

I demand the cheapest car possible, I don't care if its built by slave labor in xinjiang. If western companies can't compete with third world labor costs then they're obviously inefficient and don't deserve to exist.

Pohl ,

It’s the same thing the right does with government. It is a truism that there is all sorts of “inefficiencies” where the money is going to the wrong people for the wrong stuff.

In both cases, it’s sort of correct and sort of wrong. Corporations, governments, and any human institution beyond a certain scale (a few hundred people), will leak wealth into places it shouldn’t. It’s an unavoidable feature of our species as best I can tell.

It’s fine to accept it, it’s fine to be angry about it. It’s silly to blind yourself to it in some places and whinge about it in others.

Mog_fanatic ,

I mean I'd argue there's some serious room to help out the consumer since the price of cars has been outpacing inflation pretty handily since around 2014 (and been beating it into a bloody pulp since 2020). There is some insanely obvious price gouging going on when the average price of a new car in 2024 is over 49k. There is room for BOTH higher wages and at least semi reasonable car prices for the American consumer. In my eyes if you clearly aren't willing to help me as an everyday clearly struggling American today, then goooo right ahead and kiss my ass as I buy foreign if it's cheaper.

ShepherdPie ,

That added cost came in the form of dealer markups during COVID that never went away since theyre still selling. The manufacturers don't have much control over what the dealerships do.

Not_mikey ,

The average purchase price has gone up because people are buying more expensive cars, eg. Large trucks, SUVs, luxury sedans, high end trims etc. not because cars are getting more expensive.

If you look at lower end sedans there price hasn't changed much. For example if you look at the Chevy Malibu the current base price is $25,100 , in 2014 the base price was $22,340 or $29,400 adjusted for inflation, in 2004 it was $18,700 or $31,067

None of those are close to the $10,000 cars coming out of China because you just can't make a car for that cheap in a country with high labor costs like the u.s., or even Japan or Germany.

maynarkh ,

My worries are not that they can't compete, it's that they won't even attempt to.

LaLuzDelSol ,

They managed to survive the Japanese/Korean car invasions (with some help). They will certainly try with China although it's trickier for a lot of reasons.

kent_eh , (edited )

Now look at how much the executives are being paid in the US compared to the cost of the vehicles...

It ain't the welders and wrench turners who are adding the most to the cost of vehicles.

LaLuzDelSol ,

As opposed to China where there totally isn't a massive wealth gap between factory workers and their executives! Not like the CEO of Xpeng is worth 1.4 billion or anything...

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s true, China Has Billionaires.

Income inequality rhetoric ignores that a class can reap the benefits of work via public investment (e.g. a bullet train), even if bosses make more as individuals. Working Chinese people are seeing the fruits of their labour despite billionaires and inequality. To recriminate them for not demanding more is recriminating the virtue of patience.

In fact, much of what passes for “socialist” idealism in the West turns out to be a mirror image of bog-standard liberal-capitalist entrepreneurship propaganda: “I will be my own boss! I will run my own business!” This idealism appears unaware that the necessity of management is foisted upon us by logistics, not capitalism. Denial of this reality results in fantasies of perfect synchrony between perfectly autonomous anarchists.

The “Fully Automated Luxury Communism” dream, embraced more by pundits with cushy lives than working people, also reveals a dark truth: western “socialists” have some awareness that a more equal world will mean losing first-world privileges. They cannot conceive of things getting better steadily and slowly, with hard work. And so they are forced to denigrate the Chinese road of self-sacrifice in favour of leisure-driven utopianism. The reality is that the victory of the working class over the capitalist class will usher in an era of hard but rewarding work, as opposed to hard work without reward.

United Nations, 2019: Helping 800 Million People Escape Poverty Was Greatest Such Effort in History, Says Secretary-General, on Seventieth Anniversary of China’s Founding

LaLuzDelSol ,

Sure man, I guess the nets on the sides of the factory buildings are there to catch workers who are jumping with joy because their work is so rewarding.

I don't deny that China's economic ascendancy has been remarkable and a big win against poverty, but now that people have gotten past the starvation phase, I don't think you can use the "high tide raises all boats" analogy. It sounds a lot like tricke-down economics to me, with some hand-waving that things are different in China because the wealthy elites are actually generous patricians.

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

slave labor in xinjiang

Oh no the CIA-backed terrorists got job training, the horror. https://lemmy.ml/comment/8175413

The actual slave labor is in the United States, thanks to the 13th amendment.

azimir , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry

There's all kinds of wacky taxes, regulations, and barriers to prevent the US industry from having to compete with the world. One such example is the Chicken Tax:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/chicken-tax.asp

That one keeps the Toyota Hilux out of the US.

Midnitte ,

This.

If automakers were truly scared, Ford wouldn't be scaling back it's EV plans.

kent_eh , (edited )

The world doesn't need an EV Mustang or $99K F150, it needs an EV Focus or Escort oor Fiesta level car that normal people can afford.

Midnitte ,

Which we won't get with Ford deciding instead to focus on hybrids.

Instead, the Blue Oval wants to focus on making more hybrids instead and says it will have hybrid options for all its internal combustion engine-powered vehicles by 2030.

Also, apparently, people quite like the EV Mustang.

But with Mustang Mach-E sales up 77 percent to 9,589 sold, and a 148 percent growth for the E-Transit, Ford is the country's second-bestselling EV brand.

RGB3x3 ,

Toyota Hilux: the middle-east terrorist's truck of choice.

But seriously, those things are everywhere in the Middle East and Africa.

maynarkh ,

I guess you need a cheap, reliable, relatively high performance truck with good off-road capabilities with a large bed to mount weaponry on.

What else would they use?

jubilationtcornpone ,

Half your fleet experiencing engine failure around 110,000 miles really puts a wrinkle in the jihad so I guess that rules out Chevrolet.

thejml ,

Does that account for the fact that most US Tacoma’s are built in San Antonio (there’s also a plant in Tijuana) and the Tundra is also built at the San Antonio plant?

The tundra, F-150 and Honda Ridge line are all tied at 75% domestic US parts production. The Tacoma’s is a bit lower at 70%.

Aurenkin , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry

Yes I think that's the part where you have to, you know, compete or whatever.

KnitWit ,

They’ll just ban them from being imported. Far cheaper to pay off some politicians than it is to compete or whatever. Kinda like the tariffs on the solar panels ‘flooding the market’ they just announced.

workerONE ,

It's difficult to compete with Chinese companies that operate at a loss and are subsidized by the Chinese government.

HakFoo ,

Why can't we subsidize American carmakers more?

RenegadeTwister ,

Why would we?

honey_im_meat_grinding ,

Subsidies are an incredible tool when used well, like when they funded a bunch of utility cooperatives that electrified rural US. Maybe you're asking why we should because propping up the car industry when public transit and bike infrastructure should be subsidized instead, rather than challenging subsidies, though.

RenegadeTwister ,

Yeah, I meant specifically for the car industry, given the rampant price gouging they're obviously doing. They've clearly demonstrated any amount of profit they get will simply go right into the C suite and shareholder's pockets rather than innovation.

CaptObvious ,

We do. They just send the windfall to exec salary and shareholders rather than to tax paying customers.

TowardsTheFuture ,

Fucking lol. Good thing we don’t subsidize ANYTHING AT ALL and never export anything either. Boy. You’d have to be EVIL to want your country to have AFFORDABLE CARS. What’s next, AFFORDABLE HOUSING?

mriguy ,

“We hear you, American consumer! You say you want a sub-$40k, small, basic EV. So here’s another luxury SUV/pickup truck/yacht crossover starting at $90,000.”

huquad ,

You have to be capitalistic, no not like that!

bastonia ,

Nooooo, you have to buy local, get our new Chevro-laid Mountain Dew 16x16 for only 250k (Tips not included)

chemical_cutthroat , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry
@chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world avatar

Don't cram touchscreens and smart features into every fucking aspect of your car. Keep your costs low, keep prices low, and believe it or not, you'll tap into the "bottom" 60% of the market that has been forced to buy used for the last 10 years. I don't want a base trim 10 year old Honda Accord with 150k miles, but it's all I can find for under $20k.

themeatbridge ,

Touchscreens and "smart" features don't add enough cost to justify the premium you pay for them.

zurohki ,

This. Removing the $200 Android tablet from the dash isn't going to make cars suddenly $5,000 cheaper.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

but they love charging 5k for it though.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I keep getting shit on for wanting an EV with manual roll-up windows where you have to use your hands, a super basic FM stereo kit, and a dash clock being the most advanced shit inside. I don't need rear-view cameras and sensors and other shit that complicates and increases repair and insurance costs. I don't get it. Give me dead simple, please and thank you.

ltxrtquq ,

Back up cameras are mandatory in the US, and apparently Automatic Emergency Braking will be mandatory starting in 2029, so you'll be stuck with some sensors whether you like it or not.

But otherwise I agree that buttons and dials are better for controlling AC and radio than a touchscreen ever will be.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yeesh. I'm still driving a vehicle from 1999. Guess I'm out of the loop on the backup camera thing.

CaptObvious ,

Backup cameras are useless for many people. I can either wear glasses so that I can see where I’m driving, or I can take them off to see the fisheyed backup screen. Not both.

TowardsTheFuture ,

Good thing glasses are permanently superglued to your face and thus it’s impossible to swap between having them on and off when swapping between going backwards and forwards…

lmorchard ,
@lmorchard@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

That's not a reasonable thing to expect to have to do while driving. Sounds like the "you're holding it wrong" of cars

CaptObvious ,

Except for those of us who, you know, like to see where we're going rather than relying on a limited FOV camera. Of course, if I could learn to remove and replace them while keeping both hands engaged in actually, you know, steering the damn car, that'd be great.

TowardsTheFuture ,

I better have both hands on the wheel for all those times I’m mid turn and shift while still moving into reverse……

It’s… for when you’re backing up. You’ve come to a complete stop. You’re going to stop before you start moving forward again. It’s not hard to tilt glasses onto the top of your head while you stop or flip them back down when you stop.

A MUCH bigger issue would be the rear view mirrors which are just cameras and screens.

Are you mixing the two up?

CaptObvious ,

No.

SqueakyBeaver ,
@SqueakyBeaver@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Backup cameras are pretty good imo because they let you see the small things you wouldn't be able to see out of a mirror. Helps prevent needless accidents.
If you don't wanna use it, just don't look at it. Most cars should still have rear view mirrors

desktop_user ,

the backup camera is useful when the rear window is obstructed (such as from mud/dust) and for comically large vehicles where a short pole wouldn't be visible if it was less than 3ft behind it.

Hugh_Jeggs ,

Wut? I bought a brand new car for €11k three years ago. Right enough the same car is 15k now but still

jubilationtcornpone ,

Touch screens in cars are a massive safety issue. I'm not saying they don't have some benefits but the fact that many newer cars have basically no physical buttons to perform basic functions is a problem. I can feel for the dial to adjust the volume or change the radio station. But a touch screen encourages the driver to take their focus off the road. That's a serious problem.

Jimmycakes , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry

Everyone is broke as fuck we are open to cheap everything. People are living in literal sheds

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

I wish I could afford a shed.

billgamesh ,

it's like you've never heard of roommates. If you get a third job and find a couple people, i'm sure you could afford to rent a shed

Jimmycakes ,

Just stop spending so much money on food. Sheds will feel bigger if you are starving to death

htrayl ,

No, most of us are broke because we insist on ensuring that suburban mcmansions are the only places to really live. When you spend 30% on driving and 40% on housing, suddenly you are broke.

Blisterexe ,
@Blisterexe@lemmy.zip avatar

Yeah that's what I don't get, people complain housing is unnafordable now, but their expectation for a house is way higher than previous generations, and squander their money on "necessities" that really aren't that. Yes, the housing market IS fucked, but by less than people make it seem like

SnotFlickerman , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I mean fuck, if only we could get shit like kei trucks.

Some of us have been open to foreign vehicles you can't really get in the US for a long time. Oh well.

lemmus ,
@lemmus@lemmy.world avatar

Absolutely. So many sensible sized European cars aren’t sold in the US because bullshit market research says small car bad big truck good.

Moonrise2473 ,

But the European market is also pushing bigger cars and SUV.

The smart is now a 4 meters SUV

The Volkswagen up (small 4 person car) is out of production and they're selling nothing under 4 meters

The fiat panda (another small 4 person car) is in the process of being redesigned and the mockups look like a huge range rover SUV

Skoda, after retiring the citigo, has the Fabia that's relatively small (almost 4 meters) and the rest are huge

Most automakers are giving up on the cheap and small compact car segment, leaving a big gap for Chinese automakers

maynarkh ,

The smart is now a 4 meters SUV

Is it? I haven't heard about it, I've seen some weird concept picture, but the Fortwo as currently being manufactured is still the same 2.6m long car as it was in 2014 as per Wikipedia.

The Volkswagen up (small 4 person car) is out of production and they’re selling nothing under 4 meters
Skoda, after retiring the citigo, has the Fabia that’s relatively small (almost 4 meters) and the rest are huge

They are the same company. The Skoda Citigo and the Seat Mii are both just rebadged Volkswagen Up cars.

The fiat panda (another small 4 person car) is in the process of being redesigned and the mockups look like a huge range rover SUV

Those mockups are actually the redesign of the Panda Cross, which was an SUV-ish thing they introduced in 2014. Fiat still makes the subcompact 500, having recently made an electric version.

Some EU automakers are doing weird stuff, but if you look at the electric car market for example, at lest where I live, locally produced electric kei trucks actually outsold Tesla at some point.

Moonrise2473 ,

The smart fortwo has been discontinued a few months ago, replaced by the 2 ton smart #1

The fiat panda cross was just a fancy trim of the fiat panda, same size and weight just bigger bumpers and higher wheels

shalafi , (edited )

Nope, it's the government's mileage standards. If you make a truck with a shorter wheelbase and track, it has to hit higher gas mileage standards. Easier to make a big truck that's allowed worse mileage.

https://youtu.be/azI3nqrHEXM

Also, I did a brief stint selling cars in the 90s. One of the salesmen explained it like this, "What's the real difference in a big truck and a small truck? Same engineering effort, same production work, all that. Hell, same parts for most systems.

More steel on the big one, and steel is cheap. We can charge a premium for the larger truck."

cosmic_cowboy ,
@cosmic_cowboy@reddthat.com avatar

The massive size of vehicles in the U.S. is ridiculous. I think a lot of people would buy smaller, cheaper cars if they were on the market.

toastal ,

I think folks bought into SUVs since they were bigger & selfishly less likely to take more damage in a crash. As such, with SUV tanks everywhere, being a pedestrian or in a small car on the road on in an SUV’s trajectory can often lead to lethal injury.

bastonia ,

When youre that fat you need a big car tbh

GammaGames ,
@GammaGames@beehaw.org avatar

My absolute favorite vehicle, based on looks alone

samothtiger , to Technology in Volkswagen Will Bring Back Physical Buttons In New Cars | Down with touch screen controls.

There’s so many fewer points of failure when you use physical buttons as opposed to touch screens. I hope everyone follows suit.

Brkdncr ,

The physical buttons aren’t attached to anything though. It’s still software. My ford buttons glitch out when the soft buttons and steering wheel buttons do.

riskable ,
@riskable@programming.dev avatar

It's because they cheaped out and used (cheap) electromechanical switches for the buttons and electromechanical rotary encoders for the knobs.

If they used magnetic hall effect switches they'd never glitch (unless the microcontroller itself is glitching). Hall effect switches are forever.

(And no: Even cars in Arizona don't get hot enough to wreck rare earth magnets... They'll lose strength slightly above 80°C but not enough to matter since the car knows its internal temp and can compensate if they didn't get the better sensors that auto-compensate).

For reference, hall effect switches and encoders aren't really that much more expensive for something like a car where you're going to be using/making millions of them. It probably saves pennies per car to use the cheap switches.

rottingleaf ,

What I don't get is this constant cheating where they don't have to.

Even where making a real thing with its advantages is cheaper or same, they'll still make it dependent on something that breaks.

Well, it would be advantageous where no competition will do the real thing. But we have competition, right? Free markets, right? No cronyism, right? LOL

DreadPotato ,
@DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz avatar

Physical buttons have wiring harness failure, mechanical failure, and software failure...pretty much exactly the same amount as the touchscreen solution.

What boggles my mind is that cheap, snappy, easy-to-use touchscreen interfaces have been a solved issue for well over a decade with the proliferation of smartphones...why the hell do car manufacturers suck so much at implementing it!? They're all slow bug-ridden shitshows.

rottingleaf ,

How do you do "mechanical failure" with hercons? I'm all attention. They may not be as pleasant to use, but beat touchscreens still.

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