Tesla is recalling its Cybertruck for the fourth time to fix problems with trim pieces that can come loose and front windshield wipers that can fail | The new recalls each affect over 11,000 trucks ( apnews.com )

The company says in the documents that the front windshield wiper motor controller can stop working because it’s getting too much electrical current. A wiper that fails can cut visibility, increasing the risk of a crash. The Austin, Texas, company says it knows of no crashes or injuries caused by the problem.

In the other recall, a trim piece along the truck bed can come loose and fly off, creating a hazard for other motorists.

Tesla says in documents that the trim piece is installed with adhesive, and that may not have been done properly at the factory.

lipilee ,

The real story is they have 11k of this piece of crap on the roads

arefx ,

Actually half of them are sitting unsold in lots. They've sold like 5k

cestvrai ,

Hmm, at least they are not prone to rusting.

puchaczyk ,

Say what you want about Musk, but bankrupting TWO multibillion dollar companies at the same time is impressive.

stoly ,

Don’t forget PayPal. He almost ruined it until they kicked him out.

Alexstarfire ,

PayPal has been ruined for quite a while. I'm not sure why anyone still uses it.

Sheldan ,

What is ruined about it? I use it regularly for online payments or payments between friends

nomous ,

It's inferior in every way. PayPal has been known to freeze accounts and drag their feet on unfreezing them. With Venmo and CashApp and all the various cryptos sending money to people has never been easier.

stoly ,

This is the Netflix argument again. Netflix was first to market and then other people reacted and innovated. Now everyone thinks that Netflix sucks. No different than Paypal.

nomous ,

Yeah, Netflix is a shadow Its former self, thanks for proving the point.

stoly ,

And is that Netflix's fault? It's not--it's the fault of the others. You know this but went for a gotcha anyway. It's like winning is more important than persuading. Too bad.

nomous ,

It's not Netflixes fault that they promote a show until it gets an audience and then pulls the plug? It's not Netflixes fault they raise their prices?

It's like you missed the last six months where everyone was talking about enshittification but sure go off how it's "others" that made Netflix suck.

edit; additionally thanks for not disputing PayPal sucks though, that was literally my only point, have a nice day.

stoly ,

This is definitely a "YOU" thing going on here, whatever it is.

nomous ,

Enjoy simping for PayPal or whatever you're doing Muskrat.

stoly ,

lol and made it personal for the chef’s kiss display of insecurity

nomous ,

Your lack of personal awareness is hilarious.

Piss off now please.

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Venmo and CashApp

Why would you use either of these when Zelle exists and is built into your bank's app?

Third-party money transfer apps are very rare in a lot of non-US countries, because people just transfer money using their bank account. They're only popular in the USA because US banks were so far behind in terms of technology compared to the rest of the developed world.

nomous ,

Yeah Zelle works too, I wasn't endorsing any specific app as much as saying that PayPal isn't the best method for sending money to friends.

Muscar ,

That isn't at the same time though... You kinda missed the whole thing with that.

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

comrade musk

zaph ,
@zaph@sh.itjust.works avatar

front windshield wipers that can fail

Seems irrelevant if the truck can't even get wet

elvith ,

The problem isn't that it can't get wet. The problem is that it mustn't get wet.

zaph ,
@zaph@sh.itjust.works avatar

Very true. Now I'm angry at myself for missing an opportunity to use one of the worst contractions in the English language.

DannyMac ,
@DannyMac@lemm.ee avatar

It's fine, just keep it in Car Wash mode all the time 😎

overload ,

Reading it now.. It truly is horrible. I'dn't've is still #1 though

noxy ,
@noxy@yiffit.net avatar

I'd've thought mustn't would be broadly cherished, not reviled!

Slovene ,

The perfect car for Ben Shapiro.

Holzkohlen ,

Maybe it's just like a shit car? I'm no carologist tho

TheOSINTguy ,

I saw one broken down on the side of the road because it tried to tow a trailer that weighed 900 pounds.

aesthelete ,

Not like these people had any warning that they might be buying a shitty product designed and sold by a pathological liar /s:

And the glass is virtually indestructible instantly smashes

FloatingAlong ,

I'm sure it's fine. It's not like there's an idiot who makes stupid, whimsical decisions in charge.

JohnnyCanuck , (edited )
@JohnnyCanuck@lemmy.ca avatar

Never buy the first model year of any vehicle. And that includes new generations with the same model name. They always have the most problems the first year, so you're just paying to be a beta tester.

Grippler ,

Never by the first model og anything really, everything is rushed to market and nothing is done properly the first time.

NotMyOldRedditName ,

Not only are you likely to get the most problems, you're usually paying more for them as well.

sugartits ,

Low VIN cars come with low VIN problems.

vxx ,

You would assume we have wipers down after decades without failure.

Wipers often are the only moving part still working after a car totalled.

nilloc ,

No other wipers are this long and stupid though…

foofiepie ,

No problems yet in 5 years with my posh Toyota.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Same, but with 10 ish. I even had a Saturn with fewer problems, and those were notorious for issues.

AmbiguousProps ,

I mean, this amount of problems is still surprising for a first model year.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

Never buy the brand new model of anything. Computer, car, dishwasher, blender; they all have teething problems that are solved in later versions. Hell, in enterprise IT it's common to be several major versions back and to pay for security patches rather than keep up with the latest and greatest.

nutsack ,

Cool that's boring

Brickardo ,

Aren't you supposed to test that shit before going live?

Retrograde ,
@Retrograde@lemmy.world avatar

Now it looks like cars have early access periods

__ghost__ ,

fail fast

Thetimefarm ,

I mean most of the issues have been from the assembly process and not the fundamental design. However I would argue designing something you can't reliably assemble is just as bad. Adhesive needs to be done right on every unit and it's impossible to visually inspect it in this application. Clips are a pain in the ass but I'll take them over glued on trim any day of the week.

piecat ,

Coming from the man who knows more about manufacturing than anyone on the planet

atrielienz ,

I'm sure an OTA will fix it. /S

kent_eh ,

It's all part of the "move fast and break things" development process.

BruceTwarzen ,

When people pay over 100k to be crash test dummies

barsquid ,

What, take ideas from decades of vehicle manufacturing like a filthy pleb? Listening to lower IQ car engineers with decades of experience is just going to slow a genius like Elon down.

BombOmOm , (edited )

Is this odd? Most cars have had several recalls, and if you have never taken your car in for recall work, you need to go look up what work was (not) done on your VIN and take care of it. Lots of cars are still out there with claymores for airbags, make sure your car isn't among them.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls

Illegalmexicant ,

Awesome! I recently inherited a car and you made it easy for me.

NotMyOldRedditName ,

It's really mind boggling how big that airbag recall is.

zaph ,
@zaph@sh.itjust.works avatar

I think it's the amount of recalls in such a short time combined with how long it took to ship the first one after you could place an order. And the ceo's attitude definitely doesn't help.

Edit: price might also be a factor. I'd never spend that much on a vehicle but if I did and it had this many recalls I'd be furious.

DannyMac ,
@DannyMac@lemm.ee avatar

Idk even the more egregious defects usually don't get discovered this close to launch. The accelerator petal debacle should not have happened to begin with. It's a solved technology!

Voroxpete ,

Quantity of recalls combined with the quantity of quality control issues, combined with the price-tag.

For that kind of money, you generally expect something that went through some road testing. And it's not like these are issues that took years to develop. Stuff like the problems with the foot pedals should have come up during their testing... Assuming they did any.

dog_ ,

Lol

xantoxis ,

Are these things literally Little Tykes Cozy Coupes like wtf

vaultdweller013 ,
@vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works avatar

Hey now those sons of bitches could be durable. I saw one get hit by a f150 once and the f150 had more damage. Dont fuck with the cozy coupes.

SkyezOpen ,

Yeah because Elon doesn't understand the concept of a crumple zone. God forbid a cybertruck hits anything solid faster than 35mph, the people inside would get splattered.

phoenixz ,

A 35 mph crash would make the inside of that cyber truck do https://youtu.be/waG8YYTwpAQ?si=ncyl2l4IiP7GDLuk

Even a simple 10 mph "crash" without crumple zone would be painful to say the least

just_another_person ,

I'm shocked they sold that many

ChicoSuave ,

The truck was first shown in 2016, nearly 8 years ago, and only came out last year so there was about half a decade of hype building around this thing that was busy sucking in all the gullible rich people.

krashmo ,

Honest question, what's there to be hyped about? I haven't ever looked into its feature set because it looks like ass. Do people just like the Tesla name or what?

ObviouslyNotBanana ,
@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

I mean... It's unique in it's looks. I don't know if that's positive

TexasDrunk ,

It's unique in it's looks.

That's what they said about me.

niucllos ,

For many of those years it was the only electric pickup truck being advertised. And also, yes people do like the Tesla name. Musk and growing competition has done a ton to tank the reputation lately, but until just a couple years ago Tesla was far and away the best and most advanced electric car, and depending on your criteria the most advanced/best car period. Perception shifts slowly outside of well-informed groups, and the Musk hate is really only affecting well-informed left wing groups right now, so a lot of libertarian Musk fanboys are still fully on the Tesla train

AmbiguousProps ,

Rivian and Ford are killing it in the EV truck space, which doesn't help Tesla.

nilloc ,

Rivian was also first to market and showed their concept a year and a half before the cyber truck reveal (where the first showed it and smashed its windows).

NotMyOldRedditName , (edited )

Now that it's available for sale, and ignoring the looks/stainless steel aspects, I think the biggest thing to be excited about is the steer by wire.

Reviews seem to be saying it drives exceptionally well because of it, and that'd really differentiate it from the other options.

Edit: the steer by wire with the 4 wheel steering.

Hugh_Jeggs ,

Reviews seem to be saying it drives exceptionally well

I'm guessing here, but did 100% of these reviews come from a country with some of the worst fucking drivers on the entire planet?

NotMyOldRedditName ,

What does that have to do with how a vehicle feels when driving it?

grue ,

Let me get this straight: you not only actually want a vehicle that decides where to go based on software instead of with a mechanical linkage you can reliably control, but you also want Tesla, of all companies, to provide it?!

NotMyOldRedditName ,

There's a lot of Tesla hate on build quaility on Lemmy/Reddit, but they actually have some of the most reliable power trains and exceptional software. There was some problems back in the very early days of the Model S with the 85kw/h packs, but they've moved beyond that now.

Given this is part of the power train, and software, it's right in line with their expertise.

grue ,

I wouldn't trust any software from any manufacturer to steer for me, at least not in such a way that I can't easily disable and use a mechanical manual backup.

Also, steering isn't "power train." If you're gonna lump it in with something, it fits closer to the [alleged] self-driving system.

NotMyOldRedditName , (edited )

So I looked it up, and you're right, steering isn't part of the power train. Looks like its it's own thing.

I don't think it's right to lump it in with the L2 system though as it's taking your input and translating it into the appropriate movement. The L2 driving system decides to go left or right and will send the same signal you would by steering left or right. I guess it's just it's own thing just like power steering is it's own thing.

Obviously this is first gen tech in cars, but it's been around for quite awhile in aviation with no backup mechanical link, we haven't all died yet.

Tesla's system is triple redundant, but that doesn't guarantee something won't go wrong, only time will tell on that one. Maybe we learn triple isn't enough and the NHSTA mandates quad?

I do have a feeling though, that within 20 years or so, it's almost all going to be steer by wire. It's safer in the event of a crash as you don't have the steering shaft in front of you. It also saves space from not needing all the mechanical linkage. I imagine insurance would have higher rates on cars that don't have steer by wire as well due to increased risk in accidents.

Edit: I would add though that motors are part of their specialty, and the steer by wire system is using 2 of them, so they do get some of their existing expertise on that.

Edit: I guess the triple redundancy is on the steering input. Obviously with only the 2 motors, thats only double redundant.

grue ,

The L2 driving system decides to go left or right and will send the same signal you would by steering left or right.

Exactly: the same signal. If the electronics controlling it receive one input from the steering wheel and a different input from the self-driving computer, are you sure it will prioritize the steering wheel input in every single possible circumstance? 'Cause I'm not!

I guess it’s just it’s own thing just like power steering is it’s own thing.

The difference between this and regular power steering perfectly illustrates my concern: the way power steering works is that it assists the driver's movements by amplifying the force that you've applied to the wheel. If it fails, you can still steer the car; it's just harder. (I know this from personal experience BTW: the power steering in my old pickup truck is out right now. I haven't fixed it yet mostly because I'm still deciding whether I want to keep it or downgrade/simplify to a non-power steering rack.)

In contrast, if something goes wrong with this system, it is very unclear to me that the driver could override what the car wants to do, no matter how much force you apply to the steering wheel. Or, for that matter, if turning the wheel would be effective at all: you might end up just sawing the wheel left and right with no effect whatsoever on the way the tires are pointing.

I don't like those failure modes! At least in a mechanical steering system, for it to fail completely like that would require something like a tie rod breaking or the splines in the steering column shearing off -- in other words, metal ripping apart that (a) shows warning signs you can easily inspect for (e.g. deep rust or cracks on the tie rods), (b) you probably notice happening because it makes noise, and (b) probably happens kinda gradually rather than instantaneously because steel is ductile.

I'm not fully opposed to self-driving, by the way: it's just that (a) I want the system to be Free Software so I can inspect and trust the code, and (b) I want it to be coupled to the steering column with a belt or a clutch or something that can slip and allow me to mechanically override it if I yank hard enough on the steering wheel.

Obviously this is first gen tech in cars, but it’s been around for quite awhile in aviation with no backup mechanical link, we haven’t all died yet.

First of all, aviation has vastly more stringent oversight than cars do, in terms of manufacturing regulations, maintenance regulations, and pilot regulations.

Second, fly-by-wire passenger jets are also just categorically different not because it's flying vs. ground transport, but also because it's public transport vs. an owner-operated private vehicle. If I'm already entrusting my safety to a pilot or bus driver anyway and they decide fly-by-wire or drive-by-wire is acceptable, that's one thing. But when I'm the one operating the thing myself, it's entirely another.

NotMyOldRedditName , (edited )

Exactly: the same signal. If the electronics controlling it receive one input from the steering wheel and a different input from the self-driving computer, are you sure it will prioritize the steering wheel input in every single possible circumstance? 'Cause I’m not!

That's an interesting point there, but have you considered that even with a mechanical link and current safety features, it can still override you? I unfortunately almost drove into someone at very low speeds in a dark rainy parking lot, but the cars safety systems overrode me thankfully. I don't think they would have been injured it was so slow, but just to show that nowadays with cars you don't always have full control. In that case it was the brakes not steering, but modern cars can and will prevent you from changing lanes into someone in your blind spot for example.

All of it, mechanical link or not, ultimately comes down to software now, and I'm not sure there would be any real difference between your steering wheel input overriding a self driving system with or without a mechanical link. Putting torque on the wheel while in these semi self driving modes disables the self driving features, but that's software that disables it when you take over. What if that software failed and you were now fighting the self driving car also trying to steer and as you tried to steer it put equal power against you thinking the steering was rough?

Also with steer by wire if there is a catastrophic failure, turning the wheel will simply do nothing. E.g if both motors simultaneously die, or somehow all 3 signal wires at the steering wheel are cut. Edit: I believe it's dual battery redundant as well, so the HV and 48v would both need to die to kill steering.

grue ,

That’s an interesting point there, but have you considered that even with a mechanical link and current safety features, it can still override you? I unfortunately almost drove into someone at very low speeds in a dark rainy parking lot, but the cars safety systems overrode me thankfully. I don’t think they would have been injured it was so slow, but just to show that nowadays with cars you don’t always have full control. In that case it was the brakes not steering, but modern cars can and will prevent you from changing lanes into someone in your blind spot for example.

I'll be honest with you: all but one of the half-dozen (which is too many, BTW) cars I own have manual transmissions, and half of them don't even have ABS, let alone any other fancy electronic nannies. I mention that to help explain the extent to which I am fundamentally Not On Board with anything that interferes with my manual control of the car. (I'm also a Linux user and a DIYer, which are some more clues to how much of a control freak I am: I expect my property to be exactly the way I want it to be and do exactly what I want it to do, and nothing else.)

Putting torque on the wheel while in these semi self driving modes disables the self driving features, but that’s software that disables it when you take over. What if that software failed and you were now fighting the self driving car also trying to steer and as you tried to steer it put equal power against you thinking the steering was rough?

Don't get me wrong: I wouldn't mind having radar cruise with lane-keeping for long trips on the freeway, but only if such a system were fail-safe enough that even if it were stuck on, yanking on the wheel hard enough would get the car to turn. I would absolutely insist on the maximum torque the self-driving system could apply being much less than the strength of the human driver. I don't know if that's the case in late-model vehicles or not, but if it isn't, I would consider those vehicles to have an unsafe design.

NotMyOldRedditName ,

I’ll be honest with you: all but one of the half-dozen (which is too many, BTW) cars I own have manual transmissions, and half of them don’t even have ABS, let alone any other fancy electronic nannies. I mention that to help explain the extent to which I am fundamentally Not On Board with anything that interferes with my manual control of the car.

Well that's fair. You know what you want, nothing wrong with that.

I would absolutely insist on the maximum torque the self-driving system could apply being much less than the strength of the human driver. I don’t know if that’s the case in late-model vehicles or not, but if it isn’t, I would consider those vehicles to have an unsafe design.

I really don't know on this either. Even if you can overpower it though in a worst case fighting you scenario, I imagine that would be a pretty fucked up driving moment.

theneverfox ,
@theneverfox@pawb.social avatar

First of all, aviation has vastly more stringent oversight than cars do, in terms of manufacturing regulations, maintenance regulations, and pilot regulations.

This fact is so underrated... They do pre-flight checks and frequent maintenance, let alone requiring extensive testing and redundancy

The second question I struggle to get past... Why is this, in any way, better? In a 747, I doubt a pilots strength could control the aircraft, even if everything linking the steering column was strong enough to handle the forces directly. In a truck, the driver's strength could still steer... So what advantages are there to steering by wire? I've never heard an answer, and I'd love to hear any

AA5B ,

It was the first EV pickup, at the time of announcement, and the battery tech sounded excellent, as did the list of features. Most importantly the announced price would have made it one of the lowest priced EVs. How could you not get hyped?

But when it dragged out so long and they were going to deliver on features offer price, maybe they should have cut their losses.

At the time, I was saying Cybertruck was a huge success because it pushed Ford to build the F150 Lightning.

Grippler ,

the idea of tesla making a pickup is pretty old, but it was not announced as a concept vehicle with an image and name until the end of 2019

nilloc ,

It was teased and unnamed in 2016c but we didn’t see the concept truck until November 2019.

The steering system and power delivery is interesting but not not enough to overcome the dangerously sharp, blind spot riddled, and impractical body design.

The couldn’t even be bothered to put a digital rear view mirror in the place other companies and third parties have been doing it for a decade.

ThePantser ,
@ThePantser@lemmy.world avatar

Who said they sold them? There was a recent story where there was a parking lot full of them that was spray painted "fuck Elon" so we can assume there are other lots of them rusting away.

st3ph3n ,

I think the ones in that lot were sitting there waiting for recall work to be done before they could be delivered to suckers customers.

burgersc12 ,

Over 2 million on backorder. They say avg 5 year wait, but if they've only made 11,000 (it was 4,000 for the first recall iirc) its gonna be waaaaay more than 5 years wait for those idiots

Munkisquisher ,

Except people 3 years into that wait are already getting called up for their turn. A lot of people are declining to take it up

NotMyOldRedditName ,

A lot of people are declining a 20k markup for a foundation series.

A lot of people will also be declining since the prices don't match the initial specs, but we really don't have a clear picture on that yet.

skyspydude1 ,

"Backorder" meant "Idiots with a couple hundred dollars". "Orders" were a whole $100 fully refundable deposit. It was a complete non-commitment, and I know a ton of people who literally bought them solely to resell their "spot in line".

I knew a dude who put in an order for 5, just to ensure he could sell his "spots on the list". Dude was a service tech that couldn't afford even the fake $40k price, let alone the current $100k price. I've seen tons of stories like his as well, so there's a 0% chance even 20% of those are actually converting to sales.

burgersc12 ,

Ahh didn't realize, thanks for the info!

AA5B ,

Right, I considered it …. I’m not interested in a truck but a fully refundable $100 to hold my place in line, for what was at the time the first EV pickup?

nilloc ,

Rivian had shown off their EV truck a year and a half before Tesla announced the Cyber Truck. And it’s a much more useful vehicle.

I believe the Ford Lightning EV might have been in the works already too, but not sure if it was announced yet.

Rivian also started delivering its truck in 2021 after showing the concept in may 2018.

Etterra ,

Oh hey look the Failtruck is failing - who could have expected that?

Sam_Bass ,

Either they hired from Boeing or Boeing hired from them

ocassionallyaduck ,

Aka all trucks sold, lol.

They have lots full of these oversized ugly behemoths.

espentan ,

11.000 people bought one?! I figured just a few museums would've picked one, to display in their abstract art sections, or the "even when we knew how not to we still built shit" section.

LordGimp ,

No, 11,000 were effected by the recall. There's way more morons with money in this country. I'm in CA and I saw 3 of them on my 10 minute drive to my favorite pizza joint.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

I'm in Utah with <1/10 the population and see them fairly frequently.

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