Teacher accused of having sex with two students says she ruined her 'dream job' with stupid 'mistakes', jury hears ( news.sky.com )

Rebecca Joynes allegedly became pregnant after having sex with one of her victims, known as boy B, Manchester Crown Court heard - she denies the allegations against her.

Rebecca Joynes denies having sex with the two boys but admitted, in Manchester Crown Court, to having broken safeguarding rules by being in contact with them on Snapchat and having them back to her apartment in Salford Quays.

The 30-year-old was already suspended from her job and on bail for alleged sexual activity with boy A, 15, when she allegedly took the virginity of a second boy, known as boy B, 16, who she later became pregnant by.

Joynes denies that any sexual activity took place with boy A - whose semen was recovered from her bedsheets.

cralder ,
@cralder@lemmy.world avatar

Notice how it says "having sex with" instead of "raping" because she is a woman.

Aurenkin ,

Yeah as fucked up as it is men cannot be raped by women according to the definition under UK law. That's what I read anyway someone please correct me though because I would love to be wrong here.

ChowJeeBai ,

Can confirm. It's the same in my British former colony.

thetreesaysbark , (edited )

It's not the best source obviously, but according to Wikipedia this is incorrect, women can be charged with rape (if I've read this correctly):

Under section 1 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, the use of the phrase "his penis" is a misnomer as all laws were previously written using male pronouns. It does not exclude those who are legally female from being able to be covered from the definition of rape.[12]

The last time I pasted a Wikipedia link on a world news community I was banned, so mods please just delete this comment if I've done something wrong. [Edit] note it was a different world news community, I'm just trying to be extra careful.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_English_law

idiomaddict ,

I honestly think that’s more about ensuring that they can charge trans women with rape (which they obviously should, when relevant). It seems like the thing they’re commenting on is the pronoun, not the noun.

Where I am, penetrating someone with an object counts and they phrase it very differently

thetreesaysbark ,

It does specify being the penatrator in a different section, I'm no lawmaker though so I'm not sure how the two statements converge.

You might be right about the trans argument.

David_Eight ,

IDK why people hate on Wikipedia links so much. Most wiki pages provide sources at the bottom of the page and are annotated, the [12] at the end.

thetreesaysbark ,

This was the other world news community which is much more eastern based. I was questioning what somebody had said about a certain subject. Not saying they were wrong. Just asking if everything on the Wikipedia page was nonsense (I used stronger language which I won't make the same mistake of doing here).

For some reason this was justification for a ban. I guess I don't want to be part of a community which is policing itself so much as this will obviously lead to a scewed comment section.

ModernRisk , (edited )
@ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Because a lot of Wikipedia pages can be edited by anyone, sure some are annotated at the end but lots are not as well. Therefore the trust of Wikipedia is in question.

  1. Wikipedia is a wiki, meaning anyone can edit nearly any page and improve articles immediately. You do not need to register to do this, and anyone who has edited is known as a Wikipedian or editor.

EDIT: you can downvoted all you want but even Wikipedia itself says that everyone can edit the page.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I think Wikipedia is a fine source for general information. It's when you want specifics that you move on. The sources list at the bottom is usually helpful for that.

ModernRisk ,
@ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I disagree, it’s a starting point but it is not trustable source at all. We differ in opinions and that’s alright.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I cannot officially speak on behalf of any other mods, but I can't imagine any of us deleting a Wikipedia link. Really, any mainstream source is acceptable. If you posted a link to something like womencantrapemen.co.uk, that might be a different issue.

thetreesaysbark ,

Thanks. yes this was a different world news community. I wasn't saying it was this one that banned me, sorry if that wasn't clear.

I was just adding the disclaimer because I didn't want to get banned from this one too.

I've edited my original comment to try and make it more clear that I'm not referring to this community.

Viking_Hippie ,

The last time I pasted a Wikipedia link on a world news community I was banned

.ml? The mods there are really ban-happy, especially if you say something counter to tankie orthodoxy and back it up with unassailable logic and/or data lol

thetreesaysbark , (edited )

Yeah that's the one. I hadn't noticed they were so ban-happy and I did enjoy getting some, definitely not all of them, different takes on world events.

What I really don't like is over policing though as it means you can unintentionally be stuck in a bubble.

Maybe there are stats on the number of bans a community has. That'd be interesting to have an idea of how much a community is policing.

Viking_Hippie ,

Maybe there are stats on the number of bans a community has. That'd be interesting to have an idea of how much a community is policing.

It'd be up near the top for sure! Of the four times total I've been banned on Lemmy,

  • one was a legitimate one for breaking the "be excellent to each other" rule in !technology by getting far too heated while arguing with a pro-cop person
  • one was a misunderstanding where making fun of Mitch McConnell got me banned from [!politics(https://lemmy.world/m/politics) for "celebrating the death" of his sister in law
  • the other two was absolutely bullshit !worldnews bans for
  • supposed "sinophobia" (expressing unease about Chinese cops cooperating with Orban's fascist government in Hungary) and
  • "McCarthyism" for calmly and truthfully explaining that West Germany and later modern day Germany actually DID ever stop with the Nazism
barsoap ,

German law is curious (and well-written) in that regard. "rape" is something an offence may be called but it's not a category of offence in itself. There's one single section covering sexual assault in various aggravation stages:

StGB, Section 177:

(1) Whoever, against a person’s discernible will, performs sexual acts on that person or has that person perform sexual acts on them, or causes that person to perform or acquiesce to sexual acts being performed on or by a third person incurs a penalty of imprisonment for a term of between six months and five years.
[...]

(6) In especially serious cases, the penalty is imprisonment for a term of at least two years. An especially serious case typically occurs where

  1. the offender has sexual intercourse with the victim or has the victim have sexual intercourse or commits such similar sexual acts on the victim or has the victim commit them on them which are particularly degrading for the victim, especially if they involve penetration of the body (rape), or
  2. the offence is committed jointly by more than one person.

Note the "at least two years" doesn't inherit the "up to five years" of the previous section and there's even higher minimums for carrying weapons, risk of damage to health, etc.

Only acts involving penetration are considered rape but it doesn't say by who or what, and even if the e.g. forced face-sitting didn't involve penetration it's still going to be on the same aggravation level.

OTOH under German law what she did probably doesn't even begin to be rape it's sexual abuse of persons in one's charge.

jeffw ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    cralder ,
    @cralder@lemmy.world avatar

    Oh no men are calling out sexism, how terrible

    Syn_Attck ,

    Notice how it says it was consensual and they were at the age of consent?

    idiomaddict ,

    Joynes denies six counts of engaging in sexual activity with a child, including two while being a person in a position of trust.

    The defendant, pleading innocence, said that. The case is about sexual activity with children.

    Syn_Attck , (edited )

    Hitman denies being hitman and you believe him, that's your angle? I know you're being intentionally obtuse, but it's clear I was talking about the teenagers, not the woman trying not to be arrested.

    GregorGizeh ,

    She is an authority to them, they are obviously not adults, she invited them to her home, and there is little doubt she had sex with both because one evidently came at least on her bed and the other inside her.

    This is sexual abuse. If the sexes were reversed the guy would be scheduled for a life sentence with high probablility of getting shanked every time he encounters another prisoner.

    idiomaddict ,

    Ohh! It’s just your reading comprehension, not that you’re really suggesting that it’s cool for a teacher to fuck their fifteen year old students and former students. If you care about what the children said, there’s this from the older one:

    Boy B claims he tried to end the relationship but did not know how to, called her a "paedo" and told her to find someone her own age but claimed emotional pressure came from Joynes to keep their relationship going.

    WatTyler ,
    @WatTyler@lemmy.zip avatar

    Age of consent is 18 in the United Kingdom, when the older individual has a duty of care for the younger.

    JoBo ,

    Statutory rape does not exist as an offence in English law. The offence is sexual contact with a minor.

    The age of consent is 16 but 18 if the older party is in a position of responsibility (like a teacher). So whether or not she had unlawful sexual contact with the second boy would depend on how that law was interpreted, as well as when the first contact took place.

    MushuChupacabra ,
    @MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world avatar

    Raping two students.

    Atin ,

    Cool now give her the same sentence a male teacher should get

    huginn ,

    Pedophile upset that raping children got her cut off from easy access to a pool of children to rape.

    Kalcifer ,
    @Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Pedophile

    Ephebophile*

    huginn ,

    A distinction that only matters to people who want to fuck kids.

    ronalicious ,

    not a drag queen

    SuddenDownpour ,

    (...) boy B rowed and could not decide on whether to keep the baby or have an abortion.

    Boy B claims he tried to end the relationship but did not know how to, called her a "paedo" and told her to find someone her own age but claimed emotional pressure came from Joynes to keep their relationship going.

    Just in case someone is uneducated enough to not to understand why grooming is bad, this is what it leads to.

    cAUzapNEAGLb ,

    Fucking pedophile

    Spectrism ,
    @Spectrism@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    *ephebophile

    gregorum ,
    @gregorum@lemm.ee avatar

    Of course, it’s all about her, not her victims.

    Chozo ,
    @Chozo@fedia.io avatar

    That's because the victims are children, and there are limitations to what you can publish about children in cases like this.

    gregorum ,
    @gregorum@lemm.ee avatar

    She can express empathy for the victims as well as shame and remorse, without naming them specifically. Apparently, she only regrets the consequences that she, herself, is suffering.

    The responsibility to keep the victims’ names obfuscated is that of the publisher(s)/media, not her, and could easily be edited from any statement she made containing them.

    Chozo ,
    @Chozo@fedia.io avatar

    Ah, I thought you were referring to the reporting of the article instead of her testimony, my bad.

    gregorum ,
    @gregorum@lemm.ee avatar

    Oh, my, no. The identities of the victims should certainly be protected. I was just commenting that the teacher appears to have no concern for the impact of her actions upon her victims, only that of the consequences upon herself.

    Sanguine_Sasquatch ,

    Oh no. The consequences of my actions. Woe is me, give me sympathy

    • teacher, probably
    gregorum , (edited )
    @gregorum@lemm.ee avatar

    It’s revelatory of her grasp (or lack thereof) of the power dynamic which exists in these situations, and how she doesn’t understand the imbalance— and the impact/consequences on the victims. There’s an element of both narcissism and general sociopathy involved in some types of pederasty and pedophelia.

    But there’s a lot that’s unknown about the disorder, and it’s also a field that carries tremendous taboo fin mental health (those who try to treat it and/or research it rather than simply punish it severely meet massive resistance, professional blacklisting, etc.), so learning about it - and how to treat it - progresses slowly. Which is a bad thing, for everyone because ignoring the problem won’t make it vanish. The public just wants to pillory and execute pedophiles, butt that doesn’t help with things like treatment and prevention.

    If we want to stop pedophiles - or, better, identify them before they act so they can be treated and victims can never be created - we need to know more than we do now.

    Atin ,

    Treat paedophiles, execute child molesters seems like a good balance.

    gregorum ,
    @gregorum@lemm.ee avatar
    1. If murder is wrong, then murder is wrong. Just because the State does it doesn’t magically make it ok.
    2. The death penalty has never been proven to be a deterrent to any crime
    3. the death penalty had been proven to cost many times the cost of lifetime incarceration, sometimes between 300%-700%, all being paid by the taxpayer, sometimes resulting in the release of the perpetrator.
    4. in car too many cases to be considered a “simple mistake”, later evidence has been used to exonerate death row inmates, proving that lives would have been lost due to failures of the justice system which could not have been rectified should the defendants had been executed. In such cases, the justice system would have failed.
      5.vengeance is not justice. Anyone claiming relief from witnessing the death of a criminal perpetrator: beware of anyone who thirsts for blood, for they do not discriminate as to the source.
    520 ,

    Eh, replace death with life-without-parole imprisonment and I'm onboard.

    If you think about it, LWP is a far worse fate.

    Atin ,

    How about we go halves and they get life but in gen pop?

    520 ,

    Isn't that just execution by another name?

    Kekzkrieger ,

    Rape is not a stupid mistake. It's an intentional action that is immoral and illegal and should be punished as such.

    AA5B ,

    And it’s even less of a mistake when you do it again

    hperrin ,

    How can she possibly deny that when the evidence is undeniable?

    Pietson ,

    Let's hope it's not just her job she ruined but het life too, by going to prison.

    Tabula_stercore ,

    Can we face a rule that the country must be in the title if the post?

    cupcakezealot ,
    @cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    terfs will claim she technically didn't sexually assault anyone here.

    also jk rowling will not mention this

    feedum_sneedson ,

    What.

    autotldr Bot ,

    This is the best summary I could come up with:

    A teacher accused of having sex with two teenage pupils has told a jury she ruined her "dream job" with stupid "mistakes".

    Rebecca Joynes denies having sex with the two boys but admitted, in Manchester Crown Court, to having broken safeguarding rules by being in contact with them on Snapchat and having them back to her apartment in Salford Quays.

    In court she also maintains that the relationship with boy B only began after he had left school and she had lost her job, so no legal offence was committed.

    Mr Allman alleged that both boys were 15 when she began taking them into her flat and she communicated with both on Snapchat - where messages are deleted and not recoverable by police.

    Read more from Sky News:Doctor diagnosed with incurable cancer free of diseaseWoman partially paralysed after star's stage dive into crowdMan bludgeoned friend to death with hammer

    Mr Allman said that Joynes had a supportive family, sister and a best friend back home but instead chose the company of a 15-year-old boy.

    The original article contains 745 words, the summary contains 174 words. Saved 77%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

    johny_joe_1975 ,

    ??!!

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