SuddenDownpour

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SuddenDownpour ,

This feels like the meme equivalent to a dad joke.

SuddenDownpour ,

Do you know what's worse than stimulating your fear response? Stimulating your anger response. And millions of people choose do that daily in their interactions with social media.

SuddenDownpour ,

Plenty of different reasons.

Historically, Greece was a poor country in Europe because it was the periphery of the Ottoman empire and therefore barely received investment.

Through the 20th century, the country went through pretty corrupt governments (one of them being a dictatorship).

When they joined the European market, it was already a very unproductive country in relative terms, which tends to force you into remaining in the periphery under normal market conditions; and their most educated citizens saw a very easy and profitable opportunity in just migrating out.

On top of that, the only sector of the Greek economy that had any sort of strength was tourism, which very rarely provides good wages.

By the 2007 crisis, they already had a dangerously high debt. Because they were, again, a tourism-focused economy, when the countries that had the most tourists going to Greece entered into recession, Greece's income plumetted as well, and the debt just soared.

A little bit later, Greeks elected Syriza, which had simply accepted that they were in a debt spiral that would ultimately crush the country. Syriza's leaders told the other European governments that their debt had to be renegotiated (annoying for Greece's creditors, but at least it would be possible for them to pay in some capacity), or they'd leave the Euro-zone and just declare bankruptcy (thus they wouldn't pay back anything) (terrible for Greece, but perhaps not as terrible as the alternative).

The rest of Europe told them to fuck off for a variety of reasons (plenty of German newspapers had chosen Greece as their sacrificial lamb, often calling the people of Southern European countries lazy, the Spanish president back then wanted to crush Syriza because they had been associated with a growing Spanish opposition party, generally a lot of them were into fanatical fiscal conservatism).

Then Syriza chose not to leave the Euro-zone anyway (which provoked Varoufakis to leave the government, out of principle), and just stick to managing the country's misery. It has only been shit year after shit year for Greece since then, as any possibility of steering into a different direction was shot dead. It's just a country without hope at this point.

SuddenDownpour ,

This is what colonial rhetoric in the 21st century looks like.

SuddenDownpour ,

If there's one thing worse than getting ruled by Hamas, that's Hamas unconditionally surrendering to Israel. What do you think would happen to Gaza's borders if Netanyahu could do whatever the hell he wanted without insurgences nor opposition?

All my support to Gazans for them to regain their own self-determination and democracy, but this might be the worst possible moment for Hamas to disappear from existence.

SuddenDownpour ,

Sure, but in the meantime, Israel would have the capacity to do absolutely anything they want, which would permanently cripple Gazans. If you want proof, look at the settlers in the West Bank, who have been eating Palestinian territory uninterrupted because the Palestinian Authority plays nice with them, even though they're criminals.

Hamas Wants Guarantees Ceasefire Will Actually Happen, While US Says Hamas Is Rejecting the Proposal ( truthout.org )

Following the UN Security Council vote to approve a three-phase ceasefire in Gaza, U.S. officials and other international allies of Israel are cynically placing blame on Hamas for a stall in current ceasefire negotiations — even as Israel has insisted on indefinitely continuing its massacre in Gaza and Hamas has said its main...

SuddenDownpour ,

when they’re the ones that pushed Israel for so long that it finally snapped?

I guess Israel has never treated Palestinians unfairly, huh?🙄

SuddenDownpour ,

On the other hand, he has to live for the rest of his life with sustained brain damage.

SuddenDownpour ,

Furthermore: we shouldn't care too much about the speed at which Earth heats or cools down on its own. If we know we're a significant factor alongside its natural processes, we should still contribute to the NET temperature being one that's appropriate for human life. If the Earth was heating up this fast naturally, we should still try to cool it down by artificial means, if possible.

SuddenDownpour , (edited )

Science in the real world is done with Kelvin.

Edit: Oh shit, you aren't @LostMyMind. Sorry about that.

SuddenDownpour ,

If there's a silver lining to this, is that the people of one of the most populous countries in Earth are going to become far more likely to support policies against climate change.

Israel says Hamas weaponised rape. Does the evidence add up? ( www.thetimes.com )

The Israeli government insists that Hamas formally sanctioned sexual assault on October 7, 2023. But investigators say the evidence does not stand up to scrutiny. Catherine Philp and Gabrielle Weiniger report on eight months of claim and counter-claim...

SuddenDownpour , (edited )

To any zionist who's found their way into this comments section. Do you think that Israeli soldiers and leadership should be judged for the sexual assault of Palestinians with the same severity as Hamas members who committed, allowed or promoted sexual violence against their captured prisoners? Who should conduct the appropriate investigation and trial?

UN experts demand investigation into claims Israeli forces killed, raped and sexually assaulted Palestinian women and girls

Palestinians ‘beaten and sexually assaulted’ at Israeli detention centres, UN report claims

Israel’s use of rape against Palestinian detainees from Gaza exposed

SuddenDownpour ,

in case it’s directed in my direction

I mean zionists specifically because I see some from time to time justifying the extreme damage Israel has committed against civilians, some making a lot of effort to paint Hamas as a bunch of barbarians to further support that position. I only remember seeing you in this thread, and from your posts in it, you don't seem to be doing that.

That’s, honestly, my whole point in getting all up in arms about “let’s not worry about that rape because of which side is doing it” narratives like OP’s.

Bit off-topic in this comment chain (it would fit yours better) but: whenever I've seen someone or an organization pushing positions such as OP's article, there are a few valid reasons:

  • Some media did rush to claim sexual violence far before they had any evidence of it, especially soon after the 7th of October, which should be scrutinized.

  • There are differences between: A) Sexual violence committed by an individual or a few, B) That violence being tolerated by their superiors, and C) That violence being supported by their superiors. This distinction is important, since a very large organization having monsters in its ranks isn't statistically strange (and modern, well-run organizations make sure to punish those monsters and bringing them to one form of justice or another), but that organization not taking measures against those monsters or even promoting their behavior is far more serious.

  • Plenty of media has ignored and continues to ignore the previous differences, and now that there is evidence of A, they use it to claim C.

  • Those bad journalistic practices get used to promote violence against innocent Palestinians and support jingoistic horror.

Personally, I had no doubt that there would be monsters in Hamas who would abuse the prisoners in their captivity, but the organization itself has an interest in making sure that the prisoners who make it out alive say that they were treated humanely (as we've seen with some of them). Attacking civilians and taking them hostage is already really terrible to start with, but noting what's being done out of logical political goals and what's being done out of sheer sadism is important. If we compare Hamas with the Israeli government and army, we do currently already have evidence that the latter do at the very least tolerate abuse of Palestinian prisoners, apparently with gleeful support from much of Israel since they celebrate that violence by sharing it in social media.

Could there be people taking positions aesthetically close to mine who are, however, defending them in bad faith, as they just want to shield Hamas? There must be some, but the environment is heated enough that anyone who doesn't take a nuanced enough position is going to be called out sooner than later. Although figuring out the most reasonable positions is far more important, in my view.

SuddenDownpour , (edited )

I think you should read the UN report, if you have not

I'll give it a look later. You linked it in this thread, correct?

Do you have a source for this, like interviews with hostages where they said they were treated humanely, or something?

From the first few weeks of the conflict:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/freed-israeli-hostage-says-she-was-well-treated-after-initial-violence-2023-10-24/

From her words, it looked like the conditions were terrible, but they made efforts to try and minimize the harm. It's likely that the treatment they gave the hostages varied wildly.

Honestly, like I say, to me it’s not super complicated. Punish the guilty (which in large part means stop shielding Israel from prosecution for their crimes; certainly no one is making much of any attempt to shield Palestine from the consequences of Hamas’s crimes.) How to do that and how to arrive at peace is complex, but “is this war crime that whatever people did, a war crime” is a lot simpler: The answer is yes.

Agreed with everything here.

SuddenDownpour ,

Always a good time to remember the old joke:

<<An agent of the CIA and an agent of the KGB are together at a bar, chatting after taking what's probably too much alcohol given their occupations.

The CIA agent tells the Russian: "You know, I must admit that you guys are really good at propaganda. The way you paint capitalism is great. People swallow it everywhere!"

The KGB agent replies: "Thank you, thank you, we put a lot of work into it, but American propaganda is something else. It is so good that you guys think you don't have propaganda!"

And the CIA agent says: "But we have no propaganda.">>

SuddenDownpour ,

The KGB agent admits that they're propagandists, but the US propaganda runs so deep that the CIA agent isn't even aware that they do have propaganda.

SuddenDownpour , (edited )

A separate thread about that would have been appreciated. It's something terrible that should be called out, but posting it as a response to this is like replying: "Ok, and??? Some people of the country they're invading are horrible anyway."

SuddenDownpour ,

Hey, what a great occasion to talk about the uselessness of these rankings.

Calling out media for outright lying is great, but the way their "bias" is judged is almost always tied to where they are perceived to be in a left-right spectrum, where being "centrist" is considered to be "not biased", even though the political center is defined by a given society's current political and ideological paradigm - not because it is "objective" or "unbiased". This way, "lack of bias" becomes a slur to throw against anyone who doesn't conform to the stablishment.

Furthermore: lack of bias is impossible. Adding to what the other comments are saying: if you wanted to comment and report on this hostage's situation and experience without bias, you should dedicate similar amounts of time and effort to inform about every victim of this conflict, whether they're died to a missile, they were taken hostage, they were taken to prison in the West Bank without legal guarantees, they died to direct fire, or they're suffering hunger.

To illustrate this issue even more clearly: every few weeks if not more often, we get a report on an Israeli who is given a name, a face, a family, and a context of what's their family context, and they're usually young women. Media does report on the number of reported Palestinian victims (along with Israeli officials and their allies saying that the sources shouldn't be trusted, no matter what the sources are), but how often are those victims given a name, a face and a story on their life?

SuddenDownpour ,

Then they should demand that the state gets the fuck out of any marriage business. Unless they don't believe in the separation of church and state, that is.

SuddenDownpour ,

USSRboy sounds like a nickname for someone who enjoys Sino-Soviet cooperation propaganda posters a little too much

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/7aee8c84-4cd0-40c8-930b-4b149199386c.jpeg

All the more power to him though.

SuddenDownpour ,

90% of Gazans have been displaced from the homes they did live one year ago due to Israel's invasion of Gaza, which is why the person you're talking to says they're refugees. Please get informed because flaunting your ignorance.

SuddenDownpour ,

Hamas is already willing to agree to the US peace plan, so the only thing preventing the rest of the hostages making it to their homes is political will, and with much less risk.

SuddenDownpour ,

Spain did successfully negotiate with ETA, and there is no more ETA today. Colombia's government negotiated with the FARC, and the immense majority of the FARC have gotten peacefully integrated in their country's parliamentary system.

SuddenDownpour ,

If being a victim of the Holocaust entitles you to your own government, how comes you've never argued for establishing a homeland of the Romani people?

SuddenDownpour ,

For a person born in Germany, raised in Germany, taught to speak, read and write German, their homeland is Germany. German Jewish victims of the Holocaust ought to have been extraordinarily repaired, and given the pleasure of seeing their victimizers fallen in disgrace, tried, condemned and punished (part of which did happen), not told to pack their bags and leave to a country they've never set a foot in. The idea that someone who's born in a specific ethnic group has their "homeland" at some special, historical place is an extremely ideological view that has much more to do with nazism than with the ideals of freedom and human rights.

By the way, you haven't answered my question. In your racist worldview that ethnicities belong to specific strips of land, where do the Romani belong?

SuddenDownpour ,

Can you connect two and two? I used German Jews as an example, didn't say that Polish Jews or Russian Jews or French Jews should have been taken to Germany. Also you can migrate to a country, rather than occupy it and have the population that already lived there displaced, as the colonizers who founded the State of Israel did with Palestinians. I genuinely cannot believe you wrote this:

you are still having to deal woth the displacement aspect that you are currently using to build a case for genocide.

In good faith.

I’m also going to set aside your childish accusations of racism, because it isn’t true.

It is, you just don't understand it yet. A Romani born in Spain who wants to live in Spain has one homeland: Spain. As of today, they have nothing in common with India, nor did they 50, 100, 150 or 400 years ago - much like Ashkenazi Jews didn't have anything to do with Palestine in 1750. We just have the good sense to practice policies that allow for the healthiest pluralist society possible that respects both Romani and non-Romani, unlike 1940s dumbfuck Brits who thought that a sensible solution for Jews was to invite them to get the fuck out of Europe in a colonial project. Would you tell Italians living in the USA to leave to Italy during the time of the Italian mafias? Would you tell Arabs to go to the Middle East after the 9-11? If you don't think telling an immigrant ethnicity to leave after or during a tumultuous period where they have or might be the target of hate is usually a good idea, dogmatically changing that principle to argue that it was sensible to ethnically cleanse Palestinians after WWII is indeed a racist bias. But I have faith you will eventually outgrow it, after one month or fifty.

SuddenDownpour ,

By <the "left" German party> do you mean the SPD or Die Linke? Die Linke literally means "The Left".

SuddenDownpour ,

They're just asking you to explain the metric you're using.

SuddenDownpour ,

This is why I cheered when Biden pushed for a truce the past week, even though I've been really critical of Biden and that move didn't guarantee peace: because it locked the US administration into a dichotomy where they would either have to keep pushing to stop the war, or they'd look like tremendous hypocrites when Israel rejected the deal and the US continued supporting them. It's going to be quite difficult for Biden to do anything other than opposing Netanyahu until he agrees to attend the peace talks, or is ousted.

SuddenDownpour ,

Comparing the current ruling party in Spain with the inquisition is specially ironic, if you know that they voted in favor of granting the descendants of the Sephardic Jews expelled by the Inquisition the Spanish nationality if they applied for it, less than 10 years ago.

https://religionnews.com/2014/02/17/sephardic-jews-eager-apply-spanish-citizenship/

If anything, you could argue that this created an Islamophobic or Pro-Jewish double standard, since the descendants of Muslims expelled by the inquisition weren't granted that right.

SuddenDownpour ,

In all honesty, I don't think Israel has the manpower to completely wipe out Hamas even if they wanted to, unless they kill or expulse all Gazans. Gaza has plenty of places to hide, even moreso nowadays with all the rubble, and they have guaranteed that even the Palestinians who for one reason hated Hamas will now hate the IDF even more.

When Israel declares that they have completely wiped out Hamas in a specific area, then Hamas immediately attacks them back from the zone they had supposedly been wiped out from, it's difficult to explain it with anything other than incapability, because you're setting up a situation where your own population is going to distrust what you tell them.

Netanyahu is incredibly lucky to have the US support him no matter what he does.

SuddenDownpour ,

Which there weren’t Jewish people and culture prospered under the Muslim rule and then got pogromed when the Christians took back over.

It's incredibly difficult to overstate how damn correct you are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_Spain

7-8 centuries of Muslim rule, and Jews become renowned as artisans and philosophers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Jews_from_Spain

The Catholic kings finish conquering the last bastion of Muslims in Iberia, and immediately next they tell all Muslims and Jews to either convert to Christianity or to flee the peninsula, because they aren't going to like what's planned for them next. A very different ruler in Europe welcomed them, however:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

Basically, the Turks managed to help Constantinople regain some of the economic importance it had gained during the centuries of collapse of the Byzantine Empire because they welcomed Jewish artisans that had been kicked out of Iberia.

CEO of Google Says It Has No Solution for Its AI Providing Wildly Incorrect Information ( futurism.com )

You know how Google's new feature called AI Overviews is prone to spitting out wildly incorrect answers to search queries? In one instance, AI Overviews told a user to use glue on pizza to make sure the cheese won't slide off (pssst...please don't do this.)...

SuddenDownpour ,

Has No Solution for Its AI Providing Wildly Incorrect Information

Don't use it??????

AI has no means to check the heaps of garbage data is has been fed against reality, so even if someone were to somehow code one to be capable of deep, complex epistemological analysis (at which point it would already be something far different from what the media currently calls AI), as long as there's enough flat out wrong stuff in its data there's a growing chance of it screwing it up.

SuddenDownpour ,

Spain somehow having beef with both Israel and Milei at the same time. We've gone from a zero to the left in geopolitics to getting embroiled in two playground fights at the same time.

Anyhow, fuck both Israel and Milei.

SuddenDownpour ,

For the unaware:

"China's final warning" is a Russian ironic idiom originating from the Soviet Union that refers to a warning that carries no real consequences.

SuddenDownpour ,

I highly doubt those three countries care enough about the recognition to pick a fight with their own allies. Israel would go for it in a heartbeat, but it doesn't have the teeth.

SuddenDownpour ,

Wasn't r/Europe always quite right-leaning anyway?

SuddenDownpour ,

Person of color, but only in a background where it has any significance. So a Chinese person is racialized in France, but not in China, and a German person is racialized in Japan, but not in Germany.

SuddenDownpour ,

As I hinted at at a recent thread, one of China's geopolitical principles is the respect for internationally agreed territorial integrity, because their legitimacy to reclaim Taiwan as theirs relies on it. China tolerates Russia's stunt because they're allies of necessity, but it forces them into an uncomfortable position.

SuddenDownpour ,

You may think it's bollocks, but they have been very consistent in claiming they're theirs even since before China was the PRC.

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