abc.net.au

CosmoNova , to World News in Chinese police were allowed into Australia to speak with a woman. They breached protocol and escorted her back to China

I think this is what the surprised Pikachu meme was created for.

Hobbes_Dent , to World News in Chinese police were allowed into Australia to speak with a woman. They breached protocol and escorted her back to China

Can't speak for Australians, but as a Canadian who expects that the same could happen here - why the fuck are our governments so apathetic about this shit?.

Stand up for the people trusting you. Be MAD. Stop doing it if you're also doing it.

kungen ,

Even the article is apathetic... they write "escorted" her back to China, when it'd actually be "kidnapped" or "abducted"...?

Hupf ,

I cannot not read this in Cave Johnson's voice.

AngryCommieKender ,

I didn't read it that way the first time, but yep. J. K. Simmons energy all over that comment.

Wanderer ,

In the UK there was a peaceful protester and the Chinese dragged him into the embassy grounds and beat him in front of the public. They have diplomatic immunity.

Nothing was done obviously.

No wonder China and Russia shit over us and act like we are weak. We are. We proved it multiple times.

Fuck the West is shadow of what it once was.

WhatAmLemmy ,

Yeah, it's not like western governments, "intelligence" agencies or police would ever beat protesters, persecute political dissidents, murder civilians, torture suspects in designated black sites, ally with dictatorships who torture and murder journalists with bone saws, overthrow democratically elected governments, or engage in any behavior that is horrifically anti-democratic or anti-human rights.

That time when the west was historically great was a lie. We were only better than fascism or communism, but our ruling class, the politicians they own, and their corporations have always engaged in horrific shit. Ours just hide behind the media and a liability shield of a dozen LLC's, or do it hidden behind closed doors — unless you're a palestinian, protester, communist, or a dozen other groups who are okay to oppress publicly at any given time.

Chee_Koala ,

Yeah and everyone knows: Whataboutisms are a really great way to argue your point!

WhatAmLemmy ,

It would be Whataboutism if I defended the accusations against China or Russia. I explicitly said we were better — just only better than the bottom of the barrel — and the whole point of my comment was to refute the right-wing nationalist fantasy that we were historically "strong", "great" or "righteous"; a time that never existed in reality.

I suggest you learn what maketh a logical fallacy.

ArmokGoB ,

I think this is what molotov cocktails were made for.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Might want to look up the etymology. Molotovs tended to be aimed at Western partisans.

jalkasieni ,

The name originally comes from Finland and the Winter War, where they were used against soviet tanks.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

As a result, the Finns sarcastically dubbed the Soviet incendiary cluster bombs "Molotov bread baskets"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_cocktail

You are confusing the Hungarian Revolt in '56 with the Winter War in '39.

catloaf ,

Why don't you quote that whole paragraph:

The name's origin came from the propaganda Molotov produced during the Winter War, mainly his declaration on Soviet state radio that incendiary bombing missions over Finland were actually "airborne humanitarian food deliveries" for their "starving" neighbours.[13][10][better source needed] As a result, the Finns sarcastically dubbed the Soviet incendiary cluster bombs "Molotov bread baskets" (Finnish: Molotovin leipäkori) in reference to Molotov's propaganda broadcasts.[14][10] When the hand-held bottle firebomb was developed to attack and destroy Soviet tanks, the Finns called it the "Molotov cocktail", as "a drink to go with his food parcels".[15][16]

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

I gave you the link, my guy. I assumed you knew how to click it.

nomous ,

You were wrong and doubled-down. You should read the things you link my guy.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

You were wrong

My guy, its right there in black and white.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

the Chinese dragged him into the embassy grounds and beat him in front of the public

Uh... any link on that? I'm not finding this reference anywhere.

blackn1ght ,
UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

The article isn't clear as to what precipitated the brawl

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_at_the_Consulate_General_of_China,_Manchester

The individual was part of a crowd attempting to harass individuals within the embassy, not someone police snatched off the street at random.

Bob appears to have tried to drag off a member of the consult in the act of tearing down signs, only to be pulled inside himself in a tug of war with the consulate staff.

Nothing about this looks peaceful.

FiniteBanjo ,

Devil's Advocacy:

The why is really really simple. The actions taken in result have the potential to cause more harm than help. Tariffs don't work, censureship is useless, and war is... yeah. They can get up on stage and shout about how angry they are but it means fuck all. The important part is how WE deal with it. Legislature starts from the grass roots level, political activism and engagement can help make new laws that expressly do not allow extradition by the CCP and other adversarial nations, or in any way allow an arm of the CCP to search for or request information on any individuals.

Nurse_Robot , to World News in Chinese police were allowed into Australia to speak with a woman. They breached protocol and escorted her back to China

China being China, this shit has been going on for decades

stevedidwhat_infosec , (edited ) to World News in Chinese police were allowed into Australia to speak with a woman. They breached protocol and escorted her back to China

News flash they do this shit everywhere.

Because the world runs on money.

China has lots of moneys.

Say what you will about conspiracy nuts, but the idea of a world government is very very real and has been for a long time. It’s always been about the money.

Edit: Yall can downvote brigade me until the cows come home and you're blue in the face (not to mention multi-account abuse for downvoting being arguably worse on a fedinet instance) - the fact is, the chinese have mini-govt buildings setup all around the world. This case isn't the first, nor will it be the last. Mald harder.

quindraco ,

Woa, buddy.

Among the myriad ways to tell that there is no world government... if there was a single world government, money would be irrelevant to situations like this - there would be no issue to smooth over because no-one's sovereignty would have been violated.

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

Explain why you think my theory of the world running on money is far from the truth.

Nurse_Robot ,

It's far from the truth to assume there's one cohesive government entity that collaborates and communicates well enough to do something like this, and to assume not a single person associated has decided to be a whistle blower.

Edit: a word

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

Not the same commenter but still, nevertheless, interested in the convo ofc

It may not be an explicit government, but that’s why I specifically said in my retort “the world runs on money”.

Nurse_Robot ,

Are you speaking about yourself? Because you absolutely are the same commenter.

rockSlayer ,

They forgot to switch to their alt lmao

RogueBanana ,

They are talking about you. Their first reply was to someone else but the second was for you.

Nurse_Robot ,

That was a very unconventional way of phrasing that.

TrickDacy ,

And yet extremely easy to understand especially when you're the one who butted in randomly

stephen01king ,

Is joining a comment section considered butting in randomly? What is the point of Lemmy if joining a comment thread is viewed negatively?

TrickDacy ,

Doing this is only negative if you're a jerk about it, which they were

stephen01king ,

In what way were they being a jerk about it? I read his initial comment as being pretty neutral.

TrickDacy ,

It's not really worth it for me to go back and scour the thread but they definitely came off to me as trolling by repeatedly stating "you're the same commenter tho!" Even though that made no sense in context

stephen01king ,

It made complete sense, since I also understood the other guy's comment as saying he is not the same commenter due to his phrasing. And the NurseRobot guy only said it twice, the 2nd time due to the other guy refusing to elaborate his confusing phrasing and accusing others of using alts for some reason. Can you explain how repeating a statement one time due to confusion counts as trolling?

TrickDacy ,

this is pointless

stephen01king ,

And yet, it's somehow not pointless for you to accuse someone else of trolling and being a jerk without being able to point out any specific event that actually happened?

TrickDacy ,

This is a stupid and pointless conversation that wouldn't possibly have any value whatsoever. Bye.

catloaf ,

Then why even engage in the first place?

TrickDacy ,

Sure if I judge someone I should totally prepared to argue for 45 minutes with some idiot about that judgment/s

catloaf ,

First time on the Internet, then?

TrickDacy ,

First time being told petty bullshit isn't worth it, then?

stephen01king , (edited )

First time spouting bullshit then calling the conversation you started worthless, then?
Edit: spelling

TrickDacy ,

Cry about it

stephen01king ,

Why would I? I'm not the one continuously engaging in a conversation I declared worthless a few replies ago. Why don't you man up and stop trying to get the last word in and just disengage.

catloaf ,

Nah. I'm just surprised that you're still engaging. It's not good for your health, dude. When I find myself arguing with idiots, I put down my phone and go do something else. I find it's much better.

dmention7 ,

Lmao

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

… so either you’re on alts or have such a lack of self awareness that you don’t even recognize what you did.

Either way I think we’re done here lol

Nurse_Robot ,

Again, are you speaking about yourself? You're the original commenter, not me.

unreasonabro ,

the level of reading comprehension, the number of assumptions kids make these days - its fucking horrifying, innit

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

Not at all, some concepts are harder for some. Some grow up in environments that make learning ugly, alienating, etc. I do want to ask - would you catch flies better with vinegar or with honey? Or are you more interested in squashing?

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

the idea of a world government is very very real and has been for a long time

Yes, it's called Star Trek and many of us want a future like that.

stevedidwhat_infosec ,

Now that I can get behind

catloaf ,

Not as many know it was only achieved through nuclear holocaust.

unreasonabro ,

why is everyone so retarded about this? there are ACTUAL ATTEMPTS AT WORLD GOVERNMENT - the UN for example - and there are actual think tanks publishing actual documents with this as the goal, publicly available, which are funded by government, yet people just start screeching whenever it gets brought up. You guys do realize it's possible to actually know stuff, right? fuck.

Aurenkin , to World News in Chinese police were allowed into Australia to speak with a woman. They breached protocol and escorted her back to China

Ok so now we will not allow Chinese police into Australia right?

insert Anakin and Padme meme

Hirom , to World News in Former spy for China's secret police reveals operations targeting dissidents in Australia and overseas

That's consistent with past reports of secret unauthorized PRC police stations in the USA/UK/Netherlands/Germany/Canada/....

Their ostensible purpose is to help Chinese citizens overseas with administrative issues [..]

However, there are also reports of the stations being involved in “persuade to return” operations.

0x815 OP ,

Yes, there is strong evidence for these practices. Safeguard Defenders, a rights group, published a comprehensive reports on that issues, for example on China's Consular Volunteers (November 2023):

For at least a decade, PRC Embassies and Consulates have been running consular volunteers in countries around the world. These have been seemingly undeclared to most host nations.

[...]

The network runs through United Front-linked associations and individuals and shows the involvement of the Overseas Chinese Affairs Office (OCAO), on which a January 2022 Federal Canadian Court decision upheld labeling as an entity that engages in espionage and acts contrary to Canada’s interests with concerns over “OCAO’s interactions with the overseas Chinese communities, the information gathered, and the intended use of the gathered information”.

Everyone interested can find more at https://safeguarddefenders.com and across the web.

chaircat , to World News in Former spy for China's secret police reveals operations targeting dissidents in Australia and overseas

I thought this story seemed awfully familiar but was like wait didn't that so-called Chinese spy turn out to be a total fraud?

Turns out that was the last breathless story about a Chinese spy detector from this outlet: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-23/chinese-spy-wang-liqiang-seeks-political-asylum-australia-report/11732174

Turned out to be a fraud but I guess they found a new one to present without questioning or contextualizing with last time: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3206318/chinese-spy-who-claimed-he-undermined-hong-kong-protest-movement-facing-deportation-australia-over

bobburger ,

The South China Morning Post said a man claiming to be a former Chinese spy was lying without providing any evidence? Well that's good enough for me, thanks for busting this myth with all this evidence!

chaircat ,

Good job with your shrewd skepticism in support of the narrative!

Daily Telegraph also in on the Chinese conspiracy: https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/60-minutes-chinese-spy-liqiang-wang-refused-asylum-in-australia/news-story/d9ee85e40bb4e452088221a09a2e4dfd

Also the judges in Australia behind the news story. Conspiracy goes all the way down.

bobburger ,

That link doesn't work; I'll assume it says that he was denied asylum because he committed fraud against an Australian citizen. This doesn't really provide evidence that his claims of being a spy are false, only that he committed fraud in Australia. It's definitely a point against his character, but not evidence that he lied about being a spy.

Since you aren't interested in being skeptical of your sources and jumped on the first thing that seemed to match the narrative you were pushing I found some evidence for you. Oddly enough there's an entire
Wikipedia article about him that goes into pretty significant detail about why his claims of being a high level spy are probably false.

It's odd that you didn't see the Wikipedia article, I'm sure you have access to Wikipedia in your country don't you?

chaircat ,

I didn't link Wikipedia because people like you tend to jump on links to Wikipedia with big brain takes about how the article is probably controlled by whoever their boogeyman is.

Both the articles I linked, SCMP which you dismissed because it has China in its name and Daily Telegraph are from the Wikipedia article references if you care to look.

There is nothing to be skeptical about in terms of my sources. There is at this point no credible evidence he was the high level Chinese defecting spy he was presented as initially (just like they're presenting this one). At this point, it would be incumbent on anyone claiming he is a high level defecting spy to prove it, because even the Australians realized they were had and gave up on suggesting that. Or maybe not so much had as no longer useful for their purpose of pushing a narrative.

sqgl OP , to World News in Australian helicopter forced to take evasive action after Chinese fighter intercepts with flares

Shanghai Daily columnist Andy Boreham pointed out... "the area they claim the incident happened is within China's EEZ... Innocent passage is allowed but military aircraft do NOT constitute 'innocent passage"

Kind of like the many Chinese military incursions in the airspace of the Taiwanese EEZ, eh Andy?

taanegl , to World News in Australian helicopter forced to take evasive action after Chinese fighter intercepts with flares
@taanegl@beehaw.org avatar

Also known as operation "stop hitting yourself".

Bluetreefrog , to World News in Australian helicopter forced to take evasive action after Chinese fighter detonates flares

Tankies are out in force today....

mlg , to World News in Australian helicopter forced to take evasive action after Chinese fighter detonates flares
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

detonates flares

Bruh

BradleyUffner ,

Yeah, the language is very specifically chosen to make something very minor sound as bad as possible.

For example "evasive action" = "slowed down slightly"

zephyreks , to World News in Australian helicopter forced to take evasive action after Chinese fighter detonates flares

Incident occurred thousands of kilometers from the Australian mainland in the Yellow Sea. It's important to note here that the entire Yellow Sea falls under either China, South Korea, or North Korea's EEZ, although most of it falls under no country's ADIZ because of how the countries bordering the Yellow Sea have negotiated airspace rules.

Australia is getting their panties in a twist. They're fucking flares, a standard component of intercepts when veering near sovereign airspace.

US F-22s intercept Russian fighter jets, fire warning flares

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/chap5_section_6.html

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/f70bb6d1-abb4-45a6-a23d-a6cafbb2d12d.jpeg

YeetPics , to World News in Australian helicopter forced to take evasive action after Chinese fighter detonates flares
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

The author here uses ""international waters"" to denote an area the Chinese haven't claimed yet but surely will claim as its own territory someday soon.

Seriously, fuck these imperialist shit-hole countries.

Wahots , to World News in Australian helicopter forced to take evasive action after Chinese fighter intercepts with flares
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

Russia and China always do this shit, it's going to be very problematic when one of their poorly trained pilots screws up and kills a bunch of people and themselves.

sqgl OP , to World News in Australian helicopter forced to take evasive action after Chinese fighter intercepts with flares

Is this China bullying in international waters or are they supporting North Korea against UN Security Council sanctions which Members unanimously voted for?

If NK is still shipping munitions to Russia then this could be China helping Russia while pretending it is about water territorial rights.

Member state.. authorized to:

Inspect North Korea cargo on land, air, and sea, if the state has reason to believe that it contains prohibited items and seize any prohibited materials or technologies

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/UN-Security-Council-Resolutions-on-North-Korea

skullgiver , (edited )
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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  • sqgl OP , (edited )

    Your doubts are incorrect.

    Asked about the incident at the daily Chinese foreign ministry press conference, spokesperson Lin Jian said: "What truly happened was, an Australian military aircraft deliberately flew within close range of China's airspace in a provocative move that endangered China's maritime and air security in the name of enforcing UN Security Council resolutions."

    skullgiver ,
    @skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

  • Loading...
  • sqgl OP ,

    Which UN Security Council Resolutions do you think he was referring to if not the NK sanctions?

    skullgiver ,
    @skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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  • sqgl OP ,

    In my quote the claim was that Australia was there enforcing the UN resolution. That resolution was made a long time ago, well before China took sides in the Ukraine war. Too late to veto the resolution now.

    PS Admittedly my quote is not from a credible source. I haven't time to test its veracity.

    sqgl OP ,

    The "you came close to your airspace so we scare you away" response seems like regular old territorial bullying to me.

    See my other comment about the EEZ.

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