Obscure screw added so appliance cannot be disassembled ( lemmy.world )

Basic blender went bad (motor ran but spindle wasn't rotating). I wanted to disassemble to see if it could be repaired. Three of the four screws were Phillips head. I had to cut the casing open in order to discover why I couldn't unscrew the fourth. It was a slotted spanner.

Madison420 ,

I mean a blender isn't exactly the worst things to have security bits on.

an_onanist OP ,

Really? It seems to me that if you believe blenders should be tamper-proof, you must believe that all appliances should be.

Madison420 ,

A single tamper proof screw that all that's required to remove is knowledge... Yes. Unfortunately stupid people try to do things they shouldn't and that single screw removes an idiots ability to sue after they screw with things they know not.

ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
@ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

Or they could just not be able to sue a company for being an idiot 🤷‍♂️

Madison420 ,

There's the way the world works and the way the world aught to work according to xyz.

One is reality the other isn't. Realistically if you don't expect a security screw when taking apart dangerous electronics you probably shouldn't be working on them.

MiDaBa ,

The tamper proof screw is NOT there to protect you, It's there to discourage repairs plain and simple. A warning label is more than adequate on other blenders, why not this one? In fact, there are plenty of dangerous devices I can think of that don't need to be locked down to prevent lawsuits. A lawsuit would require negligence on the part of the manufacture and while you're trying to say by not locking it down it could be considered negligence you'd be wrong. Otherwise I could quit my job and just file lawsuits all day.
Let's not try to defend these companies that engineer planned obsolescence into their products. All they want is to be the sole repair option (big profit margins) or have you buy a new over priced high markup item. Nevermind the waste generated by hrowing away perfectly good products that a simple easy repair would fix.

Madison420 ,

The tamper proof screw is NOT there to protect you, It's there to discourage repairs plain and simple.

Point to where I said it was there to protect you. It's quite literally to avoid lawsuits putting the screw there implies it's meant to be taken apart by a professional, not Ted down the street who stopped school in third grade.

All they have to do is point to that screw and the lawsuit dies then and there no further action.

It's also not planned obsolescence in this case, it's a barrier to repair. Literally a hoop too small to jump through that catches the dumbest of the well meaning. It would be planned obsolescence (arguably) if it prevented repair, it doesn't it simply complicates it. It's the same reason your seatbelt part ≈00 is held down by a large torx t50-60 and no longer a 15mm bolt.

lemmyhavesome ,

You lost me on the seatbelt thing. What's going on there?

Madison420 ,

Nothing they got the point of. Essentially manufacturers use security through obscurity, put in a tamper proof screw in and most people who aren't capable of doing the repair won't have the correct bit and will understandably not attempt to muck around with whatever it is.

Why dude wants to argue with a master tech about tamper proof bits purpose not being to resist tampering is beyond me, next they'll argue how people movers aren't meant to move people but rather to shift lifeforms from place to place....

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

It's quite literally to avoid lawsuits putting the screw there implies it's meant to be taken apart by a professional, not Ted down the street who stopped school in third grade.

You got it so backwards...

Madison420 ,

Not at all, and nuh uh is rarely a valid point.

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

So you keep saying that company can say "screwyaboo" in court and it will work? America is such wild place.

Madison420 ,

Essentially yeah.

MiDaBa ,

Madison, I'm not really sure what you're argument is here. Let's look at your seat belt argument. Torx (or star bits as they're now called since Torx is a brand name) has become a ubiquitous standard in the automotive world and absolutely irrelevant to the poor point you're trying to make. Auto makers use star bits because they enable a rounded dome shape that is smaller and requires no space around the bolt head to accommodate a thick socket. You may have assumed it was to prevent removal but no auto maker has ever declared that as a reason. Considering that even basic starter tool kits come with star bits these days I'd say that makes them a poor choice as a lawsuit prevention method. There are too many other "dangerous products" out there that don't have silly screws and yet somehow are able to avoid frivolous lawsuits. I'm not sure why defending this practice is the hill your want to die on but making repairs difficult to avoid a lawsuit is something only a sucker would believe.

Madison420 ,

They're literally called security bits you absolute bell end, the name is literally the description of their purpose.

ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
@ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

Personally to me I think we need to stop idiot proofing everything.

I'm not saying remove all safety standards or warnings but we've gone too fuckin far to the point a complete moron has to be protected and treated like a child which just holds the rest of us back.

Madison420 ,

I'm all for having less idiots but reality differs.

Bytemeister ,

Excuse me, I thought this was America!

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

and that single screw removes an idiots ability to sue after they screw with things they know not.

It's not how it works...

Madison420 ,

That's exactly how it works and honestly this photo series is a pretty good illustration of why it works.

HaywardT ,

Harbor freight has sets of tamper resistant bits. They are also handy for regular Allen and torx heads.

ThrowawaySobriquet ,

This right here. I bought their security bit set and, true, I've only ever opened the case three times in the few years I've had it, but in those three times nothing else would have worked without a more destructive solution

nilloc ,

Here’s the link, it’s helped me out a bunch of times in the 6-8 years I’ve had it.

2 notes though

  • these are hard cheese grade metal. Don’t plan on removing any high torque, Rusty or partly stripped screws with them, they’ll either break or round off.
  • if the screw is too recesses down a narrow hole, these won’t help. The bit holders are too wide to fit in. I have a Honeywell Air Purifier with one security Torx that is 3-4” down a hole that this set failed me on.
Godnroc ,

Just to add to your comment, the sell a smaller set for a few dollars less and also a "precision" screwdriver set that has some similar bits not but the full set. Both are very handy to keep around for this exact thing.

Couldbealeotard ,
@Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world avatar

The security bit is doing it's job. If this is a barrier for someone, then they aren't the kind of person who should be playing with the internals of a dangerous electronic device.

KillingTimeItself ,

a dangerous electronic device.

i feel like if someone has the capability of bitching about a security screw on the internet, they probably have the intelligence to unplug a blender from the wall.

If this is the standard for security screws, hex/torx will almost certainly do it's job, but significantly better.

Couldbealeotard ,
@Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world avatar

This is the same person that had to smash open the device like a caveman banging rocks together. Posting a rant online instead of just buying a security bit isn't a good second step either. OP may certainly be the exact type of person to keep out: bold enough to try to break open electronics, but stopped by a fairly standard security bit.

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

but stopped by a fairly standard security bit.

Did you read post. Before writing was best time, but second best is now.

Here's quote if you have eyesight like mine:

I had to cut the casing open in order to discover why I couldn't unscrew the fourth.

KillingTimeItself ,

maybe caveman want motor out of blender, and screw is hinderance to motor collection. Don't judge a mans cave by the lack of blenders. Judge it by the principles held within!

Regardless, security bits are a skill issue, and i will not stand for them. They make cars with traditional bolts and nuts, those are perfectly accessible to the average person, yet people killing themselves with their bad car repairs, is disconcertingly low. They're bad for repairability, they're bad for the environment, and most importantly, they waste time and money for no fucking reason.

Lizardking27 ,

Shit take.

KillingTimeItself ,

ah yes a classic we call this a flathead, but without the part of the flathead that makes it good at not being a shit screw, but also it's located now so the driver doesn't slip out of the screw, so it's actually kinda better than just a flathead screw, but it probably strips a lot easier than a flathead, since there's a lot less surface area on it. Screw.

edit: there's a lot of people coping on this thread for some reason, bro it's a blender, who cares, it's like 20 dollars, 99% of the population is buying a new one anyway.

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

1% is buying a new one anyway, 49% repairs blender, 25% dreams of blender and 25% never installed heard of blender.

KillingTimeItself ,

i didn't know there was a repair market for the free open source application of blender, that's cool

tearsintherain ,
@tearsintherain@leminal.space avatar

yeah, they're missing the fact it was posted in right to repair maybe.

KillingTimeItself ,

idk how anybody would be missing that. I think people are just being their usual selves.

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

I know I have terrible eyesight, but it seems like I opened blind or dyslexic community. Why only few people noticed

I had to cut the casing open in order to discover why I couldn't unscrew the fourth.

Tikiporch ,

Must be your eyesight, my friend. Looks normal to me...

venoft ,
@venoft@lemmy.world avatar

Just a basic security screw. It's so kids (and people who don't know enough about repairing appliances to know about security screws) don't disassemble the dangerous machine.

Sethayy ,

Though it should be noted this does raise the bar above most people, especially on a budget, single use tools are hardly ever worth it.

Arguably more dangerous things have easier screws too, like electricity outlets

Dultas ,

But they're in no way single use.

Sethayy ,

I can't say personally any of my appliances have had this screw, so again relative to someone not doing this for a living it very well could be

lightnsfw ,

I have a set of these that was part of a larger set of precision bits I was buying anyway. I've only ever used one of the security bits in like a decade of having them. I wouldn't have bought the security bits alone.

Dultas ,

That's more than some sockets or crescent wrenches I have from sets. I don't know that I've ever used an 11mm of either.

nova_ad_vitum ,

Grinding a notch into a flathead screwdriver is annoying but it'll still work fine as a flathead even afterwards. I would probably just grind the bulge out of the screw though.

lemmyhavesome ,

In this case the screw was at the bottom of a narrow slot, and they only found it after breaking things.

lightnsfw ,

It's a blender... As long as it's unplugged you'll be fine.

some_guy ,

PLUG IT IN UNDER WATER!

lightnsfw ,

Well your blender problems would be over at least.

Mossheart ,

Don't forget to use your toaster as a bath toy at the same time.

Bytemeister ,

I think the concern is that you would re-assemble it with the safety bypassed, not that you would harm yourself while disassembling the appliance.

Cris_Color ,
@Cris_Color@lemmy.world avatar

Seriously. I'm not sure why people think it's so dangerous. Unplug it and remove the blades. Its just a motor for God's sake

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

Comon, do some reading:

I had to cut the casing open in order to discover why I couldn't unscrew the fourth.

MHSJenkins ,
@MHSJenkins@infosec.pub avatar

A complete set of security screw bits is ~20 bucks and they're far more useful than I realized until I acquired them.

MoonMoon ,

I think this was at the bottom of a deep hole, as you can see where the plastic was cut around it. A standard bit and holder wouldn't fit down that, I don't think. What the other guys said about a flathead and dremel/grinding wheel is the only option really, but you'd have to be able to ID the little fucker first.

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

Comon, do some reading:

I had to cut the casing open in order to discover why I couldn't unscrew the fourth.

seathru ,
@seathru@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Do some comprehending. Yes he had to do that. But it was because he was using the wrong bit.

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

He had to see which bit to use

seathru ,
@seathru@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

That can be accomplished non-destructively.

downpunxx ,
@downpunxx@fedia.io avatar

hahahahahaha, about three years ago now, I bought a hunting knife from Amazon that came with a sheath which had a belt clip that was held on by one of these fucking screws.

at the time, i couldn't figure for the life of me what it was or if there was a tool for this so I went to Home Depot, bought a .99 cent flathead our of their bargain tubs, took it to their tool rental department where they also will cut metal for you if you ask nicely. had them make a notch in the top of the flathead, brought it home and after some filing got it to get in there and loosen up this devil screw top.

now i know it's called a U or H type screwdriver. my way was cheaper, but nice to know the real solution now.

lettruthout ,

Wow, doing a MacGuyver with corporate assistance. I like it!

jawa21 ,
@jawa21@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

That belt clip is there to make the knife technically legal in some areas. A 3"+ blade can't be concealed by putting it in your pocket, so the workaround is to have the clip showing on the outside of your pocket, making it visible. That's why they use screws like that. At least that is my understanding - I could be wrong.

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

a belt clip that was held on by one of these fucking screws.

Wow. This needs to be shown to all "ThIs Is FoR yOuR sAfEtY" idiots.

Crackhappy ,
@Crackhappy@lemmy.world avatar

What brand?

NoneYa ,

Yeah we should be shaming companies that do this sort of shit.

OP, please tell us which brand designed this. I’d love to know to stay away from their crap as much as possible.

guylacaptivite ,
@guylacaptivite@sh.itjust.works avatar

All of them.

an_onanist OP ,

Kenmore

acockworkorange ,

Can less

radicalautonomy ,

Barbieless

TheFriar ,

There is a screwdriver that you can get at the hardware store for this type of screw. You shouldn’t have to, I definitely agree. But fuck ‘em, repair your shit with the $5 screwdriver.

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

Comon, do some reading:

I had to cut the casing open in order to discover why I couldn't unscrew the fourth.

Wahots ,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

Buy a security bitset! It is surprisingly handly to have around. Sometimes, I've needed a certain screw size that they don't have in imperial, but they do have in metric at the hardware store. But it's a security bit only.

They also work on regular, non security bits in a pinch.

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

Comon, do some reading:

I had to cut the casing open in order to discover why I couldn't unscrew the fourth.

JayDee , (edited )

That's a flathead with a bead welded in the middle. Source a local dremel, some earplugs and eye pro, and do some quick converting.

Oh wait I think I understand the image. You had to saw the plastic apart to expose the screw. Yeah fuck those dudes. I guess another option would've been to get a cheap screw driver and modify it with a dremel? Either way, fuck Kenmore.

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

Oh wait it think I understand the image. You had to saw the plastic apart to expose the screw. Yeah fuck those dudes. I guess another option would've been to get a cheap screw driver and modify it with a dremel? Either way, fuck Kenmore.

Wait... Oh.

ysjet ,

Honestly, if you don't have a set of security bits I would be concerned about you opening up a blender.

KillingTimeItself ,

honestly i'd be concerned about somebody without tools opening a blender. Why are they in there? How did they get in it? And what did the blender do to them?

Underwaterbob ,

Looks like a job for a regular flathead and a grinding wheel.

Aux ,

I had drill bits for such screws for decades, never had the reason to use them though. It's nice to see that there's a use for them after all!

noobnarski ,

Well, the drill bit wont fit if the hole is too long and thin, so its not always quite that easy.

lightnsfw ,

Cut that middle bit out and make it into a flathead.

an_onanist OP ,

The screw head was at tho bottom of a 2 inch shaft. I destroyed the casing just to find out what the issue was.

lightnsfw ,

Wow that's terrible.

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