I use W11, I have no problems with it, sure the settings menus are shit but I just open the control panel directly and its the same since W95. The rest I don't care that much, for work I use Kali anyway.
WSL and installing python from the store (with all the PATH issues automagically solved) is pretty great.
I think there'll be some users but honestly? I think you'll have three general kinds of users. Those that just bite the bullet and upgrade to 11, those that don't care and will continue to use Win10 for more years to come, and the minority that care enough to try this "Linux thing" out.
Yes, I think a minority group of IT enthousiasts will be pushed towards Linux. But for a lot of average users, it is way too much of a hassle, unless the ONLY thing they do is browse the web.
In my 4 weeks with Mint, I encountered:
-Complete system freezes from plugging in USB to USB hubs.
-Bluetooth not working (fix was updating to a newer Kernel... ok... why is that kernel not standard when bluetooth is broken on the older kernels?)
-Random inconsistant UI scaling issues when working with two monitors (and even on the same monitor)
-permission issues when instaling flatpacks from the software manager (let's disable USB permission for arduino... yeah... that's silly)
I figure all the shit out because I want it to work. But it's not the be-all end-all that people here on Lemmy make it out to be.
Switching an OS is always difficult. In 2006 I switched to Mac for about 6 years. The first few months were pain and agony. After that, it was great. Same with many Windows upgrades. And the same will be true for switching to Linux.
It's not going to be a shitshow at all. Business will mostly move to 11 whether they like it or not and consumers will just use unpatched win10. The exact same way they did with XP and the exact same way they did with 7.
It's only gonna be a shitshow if there is some earth shattering vulnerability found that a worm can exploit and even then MS would probably just push out an out of band update.
I have lived the time when unpatched windows was the norm. Oh the network worms which roamed freely and created huge bot nets. Sad that Microsoft has forgotten that.
I have Windows 11 for work and I find the new package manager winget as a Godsend. I am doing all program installations and upgrading over it and it works pretty well. Also the terminal is a very nice addition.
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Nah you'll have to download a half-english app, sign up on a website you haven't heard before, request BIOS access code, wait up to a month and then you can do that
Aren't there already? With vendor splash screens and all the graphics in the BIOS settings menus? Why don't I get paid every time Asrock gets to display their logo on my monitor at boot?
Okay, this seemed wrong. As the article said, even Win8 didn't go down in usage over time. So I went and checked the methodology for the source data.
Turns out, this number is based on social media and search engine referral data. Also turns out, they warn that while they do track Bing chat referrals when you follow through a link, they don't see chat responses where you only read the AI response but don't click through:
We have no way of measuring the number of queries performed in bing chat. However, we also don't measure the number of queries to regular search engines like bing or google either. Instead we track search engine referrals.
i.e. If you go to a search engine and do a search for anything and you click on a website result, we'll record that click as a search engine referral if that website had the statcounter code installed. It's the click to a website that we measure, not the actual search queries that were performed.
When you do a search using bing chat, and you click on one of the "learn more" websites we can track that as a search referral. So we are monitoring bing chat in the same way we measure the regular bing search engine.
From this data we can see from the statcounter network of webites, that the amount of traffic being sent to websites from bing chat is very, very small. Less than 1/100 of 1 percent.
So from our data we can say that bing chat is not currently translating into enough clicks to our network of websites to change the search share.
Of course you are less likely to click on a source website from bing chat than a regular search, as it is intended to give you the answer rather than have you go visiting websites to find the answer. So that needs to be factored in when using our stats for your analysis.
That is very interesting. That's a likely culprit for Win11 specifically to have gone down a couple of percentage points in the US and EU (the other territories seem to remain flat), but it's hard to prove.
It's also a bit concerning in terms of measuring the effects of AI search in both network traffic and in how search results are consumed. If that's the cause it does suggest that AI chat users are less likely to follow through to the source info, which seems risky, although it's also hard to prove what that does to receiving truthful info.
Lots of counterintutitive, hard to parse implications from this one data point, but I'd be surprised if it was as simple as "people have randomly decided to roll back to Win10 (and Win8, which also grows) for no reason".
I think we just need to move on from this methodology of data collection. Firefox is often cited as very unpopular because it blocks statcounter tracking by default, social networks have absorbed some search volume too. I do think it makes logical sense that people are dropping 11; I did so myself last year. But this data is likely bad, so it's pointless to try and extract a reason based on it.
Well, a data point is a data point is a data point. You just can't make all your decisions based on a single one, at least without understanding what's behind it.
FWIW, the Steam survey has Win 11 growing by 3.5% last month, with Win10 going down by about the same amount (Linux stays at 1.9% there). Neither data source is wrong or bad, necessarily, but you do want to be aware that one is an opt-in survey of gamers and the other is a tracker of search engine referrals.
So the takeaway is that people are probably not deserting Win 11 in droves, but maaaybe their use of online search is being impacted by MS's integration of AI search or something else changing Win11 users' behavior around social media or search engines. Or mostly that it may be too early to tell and we may need more sources of info. For all the glee and schadenfreude in this thread, the big teachable moment is that data and stats are nuanced and hard to read and that confirmation bias is a bitch.
Same, its just like everywhere enshitification of companies who try to get more profitable by spying,advertising and many anti consumer practices. Linux just stays good. and / or if you dont like your distribution just swap to another, its easy :D
Just so we're clear, the data in the headline refers to the share of Windows editions among Windows users. By their count Windows actually went up slightly in the overall Desktop OS share last month, while Linux remains basically flat at 4%.
I mean, it is higher than a decade ago at least. I think most people are expecting some Linux growth when Microsoft finally axes 10 and millions of machine with no TPM have to move to Linux or face a life of no security updates
Windows is just more trouble than it's worth nowadays.
To be fair that's exactly how Microsoft management feels. For half a decade now Microsoft is a company that sells Linux and opensource judging by their yearly reports, other departments either don't grow nearly as fast or are just straight detrimental. So they do want you to dump that shit, preferably gaining some cash before it happens naturally.
I recently jumped ship to a new gig that MS’s account reps have burrowed deeply into.
It’s been about 7 years since I’ve been in a “Microsoft for all the things” shop. Now that I’m back in Microsoft land after 7 years, my first thought is “what the fuck happened in Redmond?”
The software is buggy, people are restarting left and right, and everything is missing 25% of their competitor’s features. I feel like I’m visiting a childhood home that is now occupied by hoarders.
I’m in this camp. I use my PC mainly for gaming, and it runs Linux. All the games I care about are supported just fine with Steam and Proton. Not every game is compatible, but it works for the ones I want to play.
I found it very easy to get my games working, but experiences will vary. Most games were zero effort because it was handled automatically.
I moved to Linux Mint about 4 weeks ago (with optional dual boot Windows).
All the games I tried have worked so far, even when not officially supported (turn on Proton compatibility in steam settings). If your multiplayer games use anticheat, Linux is a no go.
If you happen to have 2 harddrives, try installing Linux on one to see if it's something for you.
This being said I only run it on my gaming PC. My laptop runs Linux and I like that better. Honestly most people can switch their gaming rigs to Linux as well. I've tried it, it's very good. I've got some elgato products which I wanna keep alive, fuck with VR a little, and freetrack is not available yet which is the real deal-breaker for me.
I played most games on Linux no problem though and it was great.
I think I've had just one issue with Linux gaming, and it was made worse by me trying to troubleshoot the error, when restarting the game for the first launch solved it out right. It was a, "have you turned it off and on again?" situations. Otherwise, everything has ran well, installed well, and was pretty seamless. All of that while running Nvidia, which is the biggest surprise.
Yep. That's been my experience too. 9/10 times it runs flawlessly, and when it doesn't it's usually easy to solve. I'm running Nvidia hardware too, and it's been no issue. I do older games on my ThinkPad sometimes too. Zero problems.
I can't run Wayland, which I think I've determined is an Nvidia thing, but that's it. I do wish there were more and better options for some softwares, but that's just the nature of the game. Specifically audio recording and CAD leave something to be desired, but there are at least some options.
Microsoft's own incompetence has made Windows 11 a failure. The system requirements really made it a flop (possibly an intentional part of their plan to boost hardware sales but create a ton of e-waste as a result). I'm running Windows 11 as my PC meets the specs, it's not a bad OS persay as it works for my day to day needs. However, if I didn't game on PC I would probably switch completely to Linux. I stay on Windows as it is for the time being convenient to do so. If the next version of Windows has a dire increase in regards to specifications...I would likely go back to Ubuntu!
You should check protondb and see if your games of choice are supported, if you've not done so already.
I completely jumped ship from Windows the better part of a year ago now and haven't encountered a single game that didn't run, at the least, reasonably well. And usually just fine OOB. Though ymmv of course.
It's a big YMMV experience with Linux, it just boiled down to mental load in comparison to Windows; Remembering all manner of commands and how to do certain things, along with that subset of hostile Linux users on help forums has made it an OS that I will use only in a dire situation. Linux is mostly for those who aren't afraid to tinker with the OS and have time to figure out what the hell is wrong with their PC in case of a strange situation occurring. Ubuntu worked really well for me for years (except the times it didn't, and I Googled my way to a solution each time). I did miss the ease of installing games and just having them work without extra steps (a common issue for most games). I also expanded my console games library so that the game variety is not lacking.
Windows is admittedly easier to maintain, and I never have any encountered any major concerns since the Windows 7 days and once while on Windows 10. As far as compatibility goes, I know most of my Steam and GOG libraries are compatible with Linux, since I've a tendency to buy games which are supported on Linux. I made sure to give myself a decent library as a result in case Microsoft screwed the pooch enough that I needed to go back to a Linux distro.
And even on hardware that does theoretically support Windows 11, budget hardware will make the most basic of tasks take forever and lower midrange hardware will feel slow. On most Linux distros and ChromeOS, budget hardware will feel slow (mostly due to bloated websites), and lower midrange hardware will feel quite snappy for the most part.
I heard it’s pretty good with the bloat stripped. Honestly, if I’m going to start modifying my system I decided I’d rather have an OS that supports it properly.
Starting to think MSFT are no longer targeting users that care about that stuff. They’re going after the ignorant/complacent/corporate. I think they realized the rest of us were a lost cause as soon as Linux was remotely an option.
I’m from Eastern EU but work in Germany in English. As I grew up with my native language’s keyboard, I always set that up, but turn the display language to English.
Worked fine in 10, but with the new 11 work laptops most things are indeed English, some apps are in my native language, and some in German. And a few days ago, lock screen stock photos started appearing (instead of the company’s logo as before), with quotes in my native language. All because I want to use a specific keyboard.
Based on searching, this is a known problem, win 11 languages are a mess, and no way to fix without resetting settings and reinstalling some things, for which I would need to leave my computer with corpo IT.
American software is terrible at handling multi lingual users, aka people outside the US. Web browsers and Google services suffer from similar problems, but the random quotes in the lock screen are certainly something new to me.
I have windows 11, and with startallback and directory opus both of which I had on 10) it's indistinguishable from 10. No benefits, no drawbacks. Honestly should have saved the trouble and not installed.
I honestly don't even distinguish 10 from 11. For me, both are not acceptable on my machine, both have to be fought during daily use. Most problems of 11 originated in 10 and were already too severe.
I switched from 10 to 11 about a year or two ago and haven’t really had much issue with it. It was mostly a seamless switch, much less trouble than any other Windows transition, apart from something with the taskbar I remember being stupid, but I found some third party software that fixed it. I’d love to hate on MS, but I’m just sort of mildly ok with it. Even Copilot being added in to the sidebar is whatever, I’ve found some random needs for it here and there. As long as it doesn’t go snooping through my computer and report my mountain of illicit mighty morphin power ranger hentai, I should be ok.
Windows 95 - revolutionary UI changes for its time
Windows 98 - hot garbage update
Windows 98SE - fixed hot garbage and was ok
Windows ME - hot garbage
Windows XP - Windows 95 for grown ups
Windows 7 - This is where it breaks down, since from what I hear 7 was actually pretty good (been a linux user since the ME days) - but if you're counting Windows XP was Windows 5 so maybe they worked on 6 and just didn't release it to break the curse
Windows 8 - Everybody should have just moved to linux at this point
Windows 10 - Who knows. You should have been using linux
Windows 11 - If you're not using linux now you shouldn't have a computer
it was so bad. didnt help that it had higher hardware requirements than win7, and we didnt really have affordable ssd's then so everything was so slow - or, that's what my memory says, I havent used a spinner disk in a long time.
It wasn't so much the lack of SSDs. Vista had much higher memory requirements than XP. At the time, OEMs were still regularly shipping systems with sub-1GB RAM installed. Those OEMs put pressure on Microsoft to change the Vista- Ready certification requirements to include their shitty builds that couldn't really run Vista.
In addition, dual core machines were only just coming to market, so there were a ton of systems with single core CPUs. Plus, with the changes to several driver models and some of the verification requirements (sound, graphics, needing to provide x64 drivers to get verified) from XP to Vista many vendors decided to EOL their products instead of write new drivers. I know many sound cards were EOL that were literally still on store shelves.
You forgot Vista before 7. The list didn't "break down" because Vista was the steaming pile of shit in between.
8 sucked, 8.1 was good at least in my opinion. 10 was when I fucked off to Linux land permanently after using it on and off for 15 years and have never been happier.
I admit that I am a bit biased. During the 8-10 years I tanked my startup by going all-in on Microsoft Store apps because I absolutely loved my Windows Phones and was convinced that they were the future, especially when Continuum was announced (and it actually worked!).
The disenchantment started when Microsoft forced developers to rewrite their apps for Windows 10 after already having forced the mobile devs to do it from 7 to 8. The hatred ramped up when they killed support for the Lumia 950XL 6 months after launch. I freaking loved that phone.
It pissed me off so much that I went to Apple lmao talk about cutting off my nose to spite my face.
"Peak Windows" is a fun one to ponder. I'd probably pick XP for fairly high reliability and fairly low bloat. Or 2000 if taking business oriented versions in to consideration.
widdows 2000 was the pinnacle for me, beat XP until i wanted to go to 64 bit.
Apart from having 64-bit, XP was a step back; even if I don't count the fucking dog thing.
XP was a fair bit harder to de-bloat than win 2000 and they were hell-bent on forcing internet exploder on the world.
XP was also at a time when Linux was becoming pretty easily usable and mac osx was impressive too - I remember using those imac coloured egg things at university in 2000. They were good apart from the mouse, and ran MS office pretty well.
StarOffice was already better than MS-Word at dealing with .doc format across versions.
and ancient version of Wordperfect were miles better for WP anyway ("reveal codes").
windows XP was already down to gaming, adobe and CAD/other specialist apps, plus maybe MS Excel that just weren't as good or not available on linux.
Man windows sounds complicated. All these scripts and programs you've gotta hunt the web for, opening the command prompt or doing a load of registry edits to not see ads everywhere.
I've been a hardcore Linux gamer for 15+ years, but there's some games that just don't work on Linux, unfortunately. Sim racing was something I wanted to get into so I could get familiarity with some tracks before I actually go drive them, so putting up with windows long enough to launch the games is something I can deal with.
If M$ starts sending me ads mid game, then I might start looking for other solutions.
That's absolutely untrue. The debloat tools have a GUI and presets where it's basically a single click to run them.
I seriously tried gaming on Linux with like 5 different distros, and it was a struggle to get things running not completely awfully. Windows doesn't have those issues.
You find all kinds of crap when you search for things like that, you need to do your research on what's trustworthy.
I see a lot of Windows users say "oh you can make windows not terrible, you just need to install this random modified Windows ISO that there's no way of knowing if it contains malware"
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