aljazeera.com

keiichii12 , to World News in ‘Julian Assange is free’: Wikileaks founder freed in deal with US

fast forward a few years

"Assange is in critical condition after [near fatal car accident in bumfuck nowhere, mysteriously poisoned, ran off the road, etc.]. Although the incident seems quite suspicious, authorities have already ruled out assassination. If you question this, we will find you."

morphballganon , to World News in ‘Julian Assange is free’: Wikileaks founder freed in deal with US

Cool, now do Snowden

RandomGuy79 , to World News in ‘Julian Assange is free’: Wikileaks founder freed in deal with US

Too bad his sexual misconduct was never explored

PugJesus ,
@PugJesus@lemmy.world avatar

Unfortunately, he managed to escape trial until the statute of limitations ran out. But of course, some will defend him as a completely holsum rapist who was framed by the CIA, because you can't believe those lying Swedish women, especially when the accused flees the country known for its humane justice system as soon as he hears he's charged.

Or something bizarre along those lines.

kamenoko ,
@kamenoko@sh.itjust.works avatar

Wow to the people downvoting you need to rethink your definition of informed consent. Julian Assange is a repellent sociopath to anyone with two eyes and an open mind.

bokherif , to World News in ‘Human shielding in action’: Israeli forces strap Palestinian man to jeep

Inhumane

Linkerbaan , to World News in ‘Julian Assange is free’: Wikileaks founder freed in deal with US
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Making sure he pleads guilty to something that isn't a crime equals America not having freedom of speech.

ModernRisk ,
@ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

With everything that’s going on in the world, I feel like “freedom of speech” doesn’t exist. It’s just a “buzz”.

Just to name a few things;

  • You want to criticize Israel? Antisemitism!
  • You want to criticize US-related Israel things? Antisemitism!
  • You want to provide evidence of crimes? That’s a ‘crime’!
  • You are against killing innocent people? Antisemitism!
  • You want to protest? You disrupt the order and therefore a crime!

Perhaps it is just me being pessimistic.

n3m37h ,

Perhaps it is just me being pessimistic antisemitic.

FIFY!

/S

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

Nah just you misunderstanding positions and arguments you've overheard.

Sarmyth ,

You've just misunderstood what freedom of speech is. The government won't jail you for your opinions. You can say whatever you want that isn't a threat or call to violence.

Let's be real though. That's why people get to call you names when they disagree with you. They also have that same protected speech.

Protesting is a thing you are doing while exercising your free speech. However, you can be doing 2 things at once. Exercising your free speech while committing the crime of trespassing, etc. That one right doesn't make you legally immune to anything else you're doing.

Of course, people commit crimes while protesting to give their protest some teeth, and in some cases to bring attention to the law they might be protesting. But you should be prepared to be fined and arrested during spicy protests. People sitting in the road acting shocked they get hit and dragged away just make me feel like I'm looking at too many shocked Pikachus. You should expect it. That's why you are there. If you didn't face violence you aren't really showing how strongly you feel. That's what it means to stand against opposition.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

"Freedom of speech" does not protect you from social consequences; it protects you from legal consequences.

Maggoty ,

Don't make me break out my argument about how the bill of rights is a dead letter. Every single one, including the third.

SwingingTheLamp ,

Worse, it validates the precedent that non-U.S.-citizens can be prosecuted for breaking U.S. law over things they did outside of the U.S.

Really happy that Assange gets to go home, since he's suffered enough personally, but I really don't like the precedent that I can be prosecuted in, say, Israel under Israeli law for things that I did in Wisconsin (e.g. boycotting).

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

That precedent doesn't need validation. It's ancient. It's international law. Don't fuck around and then run off to an ally.

SwingingTheLamp ,

Wat? Are you thinking of Snowden?

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

No?

Maggoty ,

Don't solicit Israeli soldiers to become assets and give you classified information you will then edit to make Israel look as bad as possible?

He acted as a spy in every way.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

There are reports of mass violations being committed against hostages in israeli concentration camps such as the one in the Negev desert. Which is now closed (moved elsewhere) because of all the reports coming out

Are you saying they should arrest the journalists that wrote those reports?

Maggoty ,

No. There is a massive difference between journalists and Assange. He didn't solicit evidence of crimes. He solicited any and all classified information. Then he straight up edited the stuff he did get to make it look like the US was committing war crimes. He also released diplomatic cables entirely calculated to damage the ability of the US to conduct diplomacy. Finally he straight up interfered in an election by releasing private emails that were hacked by Russian Intelligence. Not one to leave things to chance, he didn't exactly edit them this time. (That backfired hard when the Army just released all the footage and reports) Instead he added editorial titles to email chains he knew no one was really going to dig through. Just enough cover so conservative outlets could run attack ads and articles using his product.

Let me know when the NYT does all of that.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Have you even seen collateral murder?

Maggoty ,

Yes, and I've seen the full video and Army reports debunking it. That's why it never went anywhere outside the far left and Russia/China. He had to literally edit the video and create an out of context snuff film before it suited his purposes.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Okay so you have not seen Collateral Murder. I understand.

Maggoty ,

I have in fact seen it. Multiple times. They embedded with anti coalition forces that were shadowing that convoy for hours. Embedding on either side is always a roll of the dice in a war zone. But nobody is going to eat an RPG because of Schroedinger's reporter. And yes it was an RPG, the ground forces found them afterwards and took pictures.

At the end of the day those reporters made a bad decision in a place that didn't have any room for bad decisions. That's all there is to it.

SwingingTheLamp ,

Yikes! This reply validates my concern 100%.

Other sovereign nations get to make their own laws and legal systems without our control. They can make bullshit laws if they want to, like conflating journalism with spying. Then they can charge journalists in another country with a crime and extradite them to face charges. But, spying or journalism or criticizing their king, the details didn't really matter, they could charge anybody anybody, anywhere in the world with any crime they want. And since it's another country, we have no assurances of due process there.

That's scary shit.

Maggoty ,

Yeah, they already do that. Don't go and publish a ton of articles criticizing Lese Majeste and expect to freely travel to a Direct Rule Monarchy or any country that is a client state of a Direct Rule Monarchy.

But extreme examples aside, every country in the world will come for you if you want to reveal their military secrets, including who is working for that country secretly in other countries. This isn't just him dropping one video. There was an entire document dump that caused the CIA to pull hundreds of people out of the field. And no matter what your personal feelings on the matter are, countries view their intelligence activities as legitimate, secret, and not subject to whistleblower rules unless a crime (that they have on the books) is being exposed. Raw dogging the entire secret intranet for everything you can fit on a USB is not whistleblowing or reporting.

SwingingTheLamp ,

Travel to those countries? The precedent here is that China has the right to extradite me for supporting democracy in Hong Kong from here in the U.S., never once even leaving my house. Assange was not a U.S. citizen, and located outside of U.S. territory.

Of course, the U.S. won't cooperate with the extradition request, but that's just a matter of power relationships, not principles. The principle is that everybody in the world is subject to every country's laws. Or, every person in the world is subject to the laws of the U.S., which fundamentally breaks the rule of law.

It's scary how many people out there are okay with that.

Maggoty ,

Are you actually managing sources of classified Chinese documents? This breathless attempt to conflate espionage with having an opinion about another country is ridiculous.

SwingingTheLamp ,

And you keep saying espionage, invoking a word as if it's some special kind of crime exempt from the rule of law, and also immutable. China gets to define what espionage is under their laws. The U.S. did mangle it far beyond the common definition to pursue Assange.

Maggoty ,

Did they though? He cultivated a relation with a source in exchange for intelligence.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

He wasn't charged for his speech, he was charged for leaking classified information...

MataVatnik ,
@MataVatnik@lemmy.world avatar

No it was more than that, he actively helped Chelsea hack into files she didn't have access to. He literally hacked into classified databases of the US military. Much worse than leaking info.

Maggoty ,

Espionage is 100% a crime. You may disagree with it being a crime but it's illegal in every country.

Linkerbaan , (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Revealing Chinese war crimes is also a crime in China.

If China forcefully extradites an American journalists because the journalist leaks secret Chinese state documents of Uyghur concentration camps... would you be defending China because the journalist did something "illegal"?

Maggoty ,

Well no, because one of the rules for extradition is both countries must consider it a crime.

And before you answer, I'm pretty sure China has done exactly this from countries friendly to them. Which falls under the heading of journalists needing to be aware of the realities of where they're going. It's just not American journalists because we still have a bigger stick for now.

So again, let me know when the NYT is running information operations to discredit China. Exposing Human Rights violations is not what Assange is guilty of.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Well no, because one of the rules for extradition is both countries must consider it a crime.

No that's not true. Only the country demanding the extradition has to mark someone as a criminal. Often extradition treaties are made so if one country marks someone as a criminal and they flee somewhere else, that country will deliver them the criminal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition

In this case America is heavily abusing the extradition treaty by marking a journalist as a criminal because he leaked evidence of war crimes.

I’m pretty sure China has done exactly this from countries friendly to them.

Accusing America of violating press freedom doesn't mean I'm somehow defending Chinese press freedom. There's a reason I'm equating America to China here.

Maggoty ,

Assange is not a journalist. Again, let me know when the NYT does what he did. It's detailed in the comment above.

And yes, a country can always exercise its sovereignty. There is no physical means of forcing an extradition short of using military power.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Strange that all journalists call Assange a journalist.

So you're saying anyone leaking classified israeli documents of war crimes is a criminal?

Maggoty ,

That's not true. Some people who call themselves journalists call Assange a journalist.

Here's the comment you have yet to substantively respond to.

So when the NYT colludes with Russian hackers and a campaign to interfere with elections I'll call Assange a journalist.

Linkerbaan , (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

This is not Collateral Murder. Your case has nothing to do with Collateral Murder.

Your case happened far after Collateral Murder and is not what Assange is proscecuted for.

This is what the case is about

Maggoty ,

Yes, and the "Iraq War Logs". So again, get back to me when the NYT releases just whatever they can get with the express intent of harming the US war effort and reputation on the global stage.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

NYT writes propaganda it doesn't expose it.

Iraq war BTW

Maggoty ,

Sure, except journalists openly talk about how they let themselves be manipulated by the Bush White House. And they report on thousands of different public interest stories, from street paving in NY to global politics.

And none of it includes what Assange did, except their coverage of his actions as a story.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

I don't think they were "defending" anyone. It was just a statement of fact.

MataVatnik ,
@MataVatnik@lemmy.world avatar

He was not in trouble for leaking information. He literally helped Chelsea hack into classified files she didn't have access to, he actively participated in breaching security inside the US military. Very illegal no matter where you stand.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

This is just blatantly false. Repeating government propaganda doesn't make it true. He did not hack the military he told someone what a VPN is.

MataVatnik ,
@MataVatnik@lemmy.world avatar

Alright it take it back, he tried to help crack a password, but he likely failed. Looks like he was still actively pushing Chelsea to gather more classified info. I'm sorry but this is not the behavior of a journalist

In a pretrial hearing in Manning's case, prosecutors presented evidence that Manning had asked Assange—who was instant messaging with Manning under the name Nathaniel Frank—if he had experience cracking hashes. Assange allegedly responded that he possessed rainbow tables for that, and Manning sent him a hashed password string. According to Thursday's unsealed indictment, Assange followed up two days later asking for more information about the password, and writing that he'd had "no luck so far." The indictment further alleges that Assange actively encouraged Manning to gather even more information, after Manning said she had given all she had.

It's not clear if Assange ever successfully cracked the password. According to the indictment, that password would have given Manning administrative privileges on SIPRNet, allowing her to pull more files from it while concealing the traces of her leaks from investigators.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

You've got a giant nothing burger there don't keep digging deeper.

There's a reason all serious journalists are defending Assagne and describing the case against him as a very dangerous precedent against press freedom.

DancingBear , to World News in ‘Julian Assange is free’: Wikileaks founder freed in deal with US

Where is he?

Viking_Hippie ,

Right behind you!

ikidd ,
@ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

Aus.

jeffw , (edited ) to World News in ‘Julian Assange is free’: Wikileaks founder freed in deal with US

Freed in exchange for a guilty plea in a plea deal

FauxPseudo ,
@FauxPseudo@lemmy.world avatar

And time served. Guilty but free.

protist ,

One of the most up voted comments on another thread about this was in effect "Assange has been cleared." No, he pleaded guilty and served five years in prison, it's just that he already served that time since he was never released pending trial.

TheGalacticVoid ,

He probably got a good sentence considering he never stepped foot in a US prison

victorz ,

No justice. 👎 Boo, hiss.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

He never denied his guilt. Just disagreed with it.

Maggoty ,

Dude was locked up for longer than we would have had him in prison. Time served was the right choice and reinforces that we're not the country assange wants to paint us as.

bamboo , to World News in ‘Human shielding in action’: Israeli forces strap Palestinian man to jeep

Hey look, actual evidence of the use of human shields. Not just rhetorical bullshit.

jaschen , to Technology in China-backed hackers stepping up attacks on Taiwan, cybersecurity firm says

Please leave us alone. We are doing nothing to you. We just want to exist with your torment.

FarraigePlaisteach , to World News in Israeli tank fired at Hind Rajab family car from metres away: Investigation

The horrors of this invasion should be taught in school history. There's a danger that we look at the horrors of the past, which are also taught in our history, and think "well, I don't think this would happen in this day and age". We can't afford to stay complacent.

catloaf ,

How would adding this one to the list be different?

tearsintherain ,
@tearsintherain@leminal.space avatar

So better not to add it all??

The problem is what and how history is taught and whitewashed and propagandized. Like teaching school children the upside of slavery.

todd_bonzalez ,

Are you suggesting that this war should be taught in schools as it is happening?

There's absolutely no responsible way to do that. The fog of war keeps us from being able to report on this from a historical perspective because there's little to no way to verify anything as fact.

Encouraging kids to pay attention to current events, and teaching them relevant lessons from the past is important, but we can't risk misinforming a whole generation because we couldn't wait for the smoke to clear before we started committing what we think we know to the history books.

As for teaching about this conflict in the future, you're never going to escape the reality that people will feel disconnected the further away they are from the actual event they are learning about.

You're either too early to teach verifiable truths, or you're too late for the truth to feel real.

FarraigePlaisteach ,

We certainly shouldn’t wait for several decades, which is when a lot of the examples we teach currently happened.

Also while we should obviously be responsible, it’s disingenuous to imply that there are not plenty of verified war crimes already. There is no further context needed to show how depraved we as humans can get if we don’t keep our politicians, education and media in check.

FluminaInMaria , to World News in Israel ready for ‘all-out war’ in Lebanon
istanbullu , to World News in Israel ready for ‘all-out war’ in Lebanon

Israel will no stop untill every non-Jew is dead.

Beaver , to World News in Israel ready for ‘all-out war’ in Lebanon
@Beaver@lemmy.ca avatar

Israel isn't going to stop are they?

Burn_The_Right ,

Why should they stop? They have the full U.S. M.I.C. to back them in whatever bullshit they want to do. If they can commit genocide with U.S. backing, then of course they can start wars with neighbors too.

We need to end our bizarre, expensive one-sided relationship with Israel. We get absolutely nothing out of it except headaches.

FarFarAway , to World News in Israel ready for ‘all-out war’ in Lebanon

Seriously, what tf are they thinking?

Burn_The_Right ,

Israel is thinking they can start any war they want because the U.S. will make sure they win. Netanyahu has repeatedly shown that the U.S. will do whatever he demands.

SpaceCowboy , to World News in Israel ready for ‘all-out war’ in Lebanon
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Right now it's just some tough talk from both sides. It's possible for this to amount to something more than the normal levels of exchanging fire that's been going on since October 7, but it's doubtful.

Seems more likely Nasrallah just has to make some token effort to support Hamas to appease the rank and file. So he threatened Israel three days ago. Israel makes threats back now. Just another day in the Middle East.

solo OP ,

Right now it’s just some tough talk from both sides

How do you know that? The Zionist settler colonialist side has been doing Genocide for the past 8-9 months, this is not as you say

Just another day in the Middle East.

And like Hitler, Netanyahu is unable to stop. And unlike Hitler he is not fighting and loosing battles. When Hitler started loosing in the front, part of his entourage tried to talk him out of it, without success. This is why, there was even an attempt to kill him from inside the Nazi party.

Netanyahu on the other hand, is not loosing battles since he is just bombing and starving people, while being supported in all possible ways by the US and most of the west. Why should he stop now? The Zionist plan of eliminating or displacing all Palestinians is working fine so far.

Netanyahu is so pumped up he could easily invade Lebanon. Also Israel has attacked Lebanon twice and got defeated twice in a humiliating way. Last time was in 2006, meaning not that long ago. This is why Netanyahu has such a beef with Hezbollah. I'm afraid that Netanyahu has been given so much support and leverage from the West, he's about to start an actual war with Lebanon.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Another day, another thing for you to rage over, right? Gotta maintain that outrage or you might think about how horrible Hamas is.

istanbullu ,

Israel has never stopped killing people in Lebanon.

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