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flossdaily , in Young climate activist tells Greenpeace to drop ‘old-fashioned’ anti-nuclear stance

Good!

Anti-nuclear is like anti-GMO and anti-vax: pure ignorance, and fear of that which they don't understand.

Nuclear power is the ONLY form of clean energy that can be scaled up in time to save us from the worst of climate change.

We've had the cure for climate change all along, but fear that we'd do another Chernobyl has scared us away from it.

originalucifer ,
@originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com avatar

imagine how much farther ahead we would be in safety and efficiency if it was made priority 50 years ago.

we still have whole swathes of people who think that because its not perfect now, it cant be perfected ever.

danielbln ,

So uh, turns out the energy companies are not exactly the most moral and rule abiding entities, and they love to pay off politicians and cut corners. How does one prevent that, as in the case of fission it has rather dire consequences?

Carighan ,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

Since you can apply that logic to everything, how can you ever build anything? Because all consequences are dire on a myopic scale, that is, if your partner dies because a single electrician cheaped out with the wiring in your building and got someone to sign off, "It's not as bad as a nuclear disaster" isn't exactly going to console them much.

At some point, you need to accept that making something illegal and trying to prosecute people has to be enough. For most situations. It's not perfect. Sure. But nothing ever is. And no solution to energy is ever going to be perfect, either.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod ,
@Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social avatar

An electrician installing faulty wiring doesn't render your home uninhabitable for a few thousand years.

So there's one difference.

sederx ,

a wind mill going down and a nuclear plant blowing up have very different ramifications

dojan ,
@dojan@lemmy.world avatar

I mean it's not the companies operating the facilities we put our trust in, but the outside regulators whose job it is to ensure these facilities are safe and meet a certain standard. As well as the engineers and scientists that design these systems.

Nuclear power isn't 100% safe or risk-free, but it's hella effective and leaps and bounds better than fossil fuels. We can embrace nuclear, renewables and fossil free methods, or just continue burning the world.

umad_cause_ibad ,

Don’t push nuclear power like it’s the only option though.

Where I live we entirely provide energy from hydro power plants and nuclear energy is banned. We use no fossil fuels. We have a 35 year plan for future growth and it doesn’t include any fossil fuels. Nuclear power is just one of the options and it has many hurdles to implement, maintain and decommission.

Astrealix ,
@Astrealix@lemmy.world avatar

Honestly, if you can, hydro is brilliant. Not many places can though — both because of geography and politics. Nuclear is better than a lot of the alternatives and shouldn't be discounted.

EMPig ,

And what do YOU know about radioactive waste disposal?

radiosimian ,

We can bury it in the ground and it will literally turn into lead. How are you doing with carbon emissions? Got a fix?

BrokebackHampton ,
@BrokebackHampton@kbin.social avatar

That is factually false information. There are solid arguments to be made against nuclear energy.

https://isreview.org/issue/77/case-against-nuclear-power/index.html

Even if you discard everything else, this section seems particularly relevant:

The long lead times for construction that invalidate nuclear power as a way of mitigating climate change was a point recognized in 2009 by the body whose mission is to promote the use of nuclear power, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). “Nuclear power is not a near-term solution to the challenge of climate change,” writes Sharon Squassoni in the IAEA bulletin. “The need to immediately and dramatically reduce carbon emissions calls for approaches that can be implemented more quickly than building nuclear reactors.”

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-is-nuclear-energy-good-for-the-climate/a-59853315

Wealer from Berlin's Technical University, along with numerous other energy experts, sees takes a different view.

"The contribution of nuclear energy is viewed too optimistically," he said. "In reality, [power plant] construction times are too long and the costs too high to have a noticeable effect on climate change. It takes too long for nuclear energy to become available."

Mycle Schneider, author of the World Nuclear Industry Status Report, agrees.

"Nuclear power plants are about four times as expensive as wind or solar, and take five times as long to build," he said. "When you factor it all in, you're looking at 15-to-20 years of lead time for a new nuclear plant."

He pointed out that the world needed to get greenhouse gases under control within a decade. "And in the next 10 years, nuclear power won't be able to make a significant contribution," added Schneider.

IchNichtenLichten ,
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

Thank you. The pro-nuclear bullshit from Reddit seems to be spilling over.

NUMPTY37K ,

Long lead times against nuclear have bee raised for the last 25 years, if we had just got on with it we would have the capacity by now. Just cause the lead time is in years doesn't mean it isn't worth doing.

Quacksalber ,

Long lead times, cost overruns, producing power at a higher price point than renewables, long run time needed to break even, even longer dismantling times and a still unsolved waste problem. Compared to renewables that we can build right now.

abraxas ,

As others pointed out, to build that many nuclear power plants that quickly would require 10x-ing the world's construction capacity.

My counterpoint is that if we had "just got on with it" for solar, wind, and battery, we would have the capacity by now and the cost per kwh of that capacity would be approximately half as much as the same in nuclear. And we would have amortized the costs.

Relo , in Young climate activist tells Greenpeace to drop ‘old-fashioned’ anti-nuclear stance

Why go nuclear when renewable is so much cheaper, safer, future proof and less centralised?

Don't get me wrong. Nuclear is better than coal and gas but it will not safe our way of life.

Just like the electric car is here to preserve the car industry not the planet, nuclear energy is still here to preserve the big energy players, not our environment.

psoul ,

For what I’ve read, it’s beats nuclear tech exists and is ready to be built at scale now. Renewables are intermittent in nature and need energy storage to work at scale.
We don’t have the tech for a grid wide energy storage.

qfe0 , in Young climate activist tells Greenpeace to drop ‘old-fashioned’ anti-nuclear stance

For the love of everything, at least let's stop decommissioning serviceable nuclear plants.

CosmicCleric ,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

My understanding is that they eventually become unserviceable as they age, because of mechanical/structular reasons, or because the costs of servicing them is so prohibitive that they are unserviceable economically.

That they definitely have a begin, middle, and end, life cycle.

uis ,
@uis@lemmy.world avatar

Disproven by Russia. Maybe sometimes core is replaced because it uses unsafe design by current standards like in St. Petesburg.

IchNichtenLichten , in Russia has 'right to war' with 'each and every' NATO country - Medvedev
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

“Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?” - Mr. Blonde.

BombOmOm , in New research shows renewables are more profitable than nuclear power
@BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

The question has always been what does one do when the renewables aren't providing enough power (ex: nights, etc). The current solution is natural gas. It would be a big improvement if we would use a carbon-free source like nuclear instead.

IchNichtenLichten ,
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

Nuclear is a terrible fit for peaker plants, that's not how it works. If it isn't selling energy at as close to 100% of the time as is feasible it's losing money.

prototypez9er , in New research shows renewables are more profitable than nuclear power

Chasing profit is how we got here. This shouldn't be the basis of the decision. If it's the only thing we can use to drag conservatives along though, I guess it'll have to do.

TWeaK ,

It's not about chasing profit though, it's about getting to net zero as quickly as possible using finite resources. Any money that goes to nuclear could be going to renewables, which would get us there more quickly.

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

Any money that goes to nuclear could be going to renewables, which would get us there more quickly.

That's a false dilemma. Nuclear and renewables provide different things, so they shouldn't be compared directly in an "either or" comparison, and certainly not on cost. Nuclear power provides a stable baseline, so you don't have to rely on coal/gas/diesel powered generators. Renewables cheaply but opportunistically provide power from natural sources that may not always be available but that can augment the baseline. The share of renewable energy in the mix is something engineers should figure out, not "the market".

Also, monetary cost shouldn't be the only concern. Some renewables have a societal cost too, for example in the amount of land that they occupy per kWh generated, or visual polution. I wouldn't want to live within the shadow flicker of a windmill for example.

IchNichtenLichten ,
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

baseline

Base load. Here's an argument that we don't need it: https://cleantechnica.com/2022/06/28/we-dont-need-base-load-power/

Zink ,

There’s an interesting point buried at the end of that article: electricity quality. With batteries in the loop, supply can scale with demand almost instantly, versus the time it takes for various types of power plant to adjust output.

IchNichtenLichten ,
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

I wonder if this has any impact on another piece of the puzzle, high voltage direct current (HVDC) which we need to transport electricity over large distances with minimal loss.

elouboub , in Young climate activist tells Greenpeace to drop ‘old-fashioned’ anti-nuclear stance
@elouboub@kbin.social avatar

Anti-nuclear people in here arguing about disasters that killed a few k people in 50 years. Also deeply worried about nuclear waste that won't have an impact on humans for thousands of years, but ignoring climate change is having an impact and might end our way of life as we know it before 2100.

They're bike-shedding and blocking a major stepping stone to a coal, petrol and gas free future for the sake of idealism.

The biggest enemy of the left is the left

NocturnalMorning , in New research shows renewables are more profitable than nuclear power

K, but this isn't about profits. This is about not destroying the environment, which nuclear can help with (you know if nobody bombs the plant)

Chetzemoka ,
@Chetzemoka@kbin.social avatar

But it's also about cost. Nuclear is far more expensive upfront, more expensive to maintain, and more expensive to decommission. Cheap, agile renewables will be an easier option for the vast majority of the planet

NocturnalMorning ,

We would be really stupid to worry about money when trying to save the planet. But, what did I know, I'm just some guy on the internet

IchNichtenLichten ,
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

Financiers tend to worry about money, yes.

First option: a wind/solar plant with costs that aren't going to increase substantially, power being sold within a couple of years therefore repayments will begin quickly.

Second option: a nuclear proposal - massive costs upfront, that will inevitably skyrocket while the completion date slips and slips, and power being sold 10-15 year in the future so repayments are a long way off.

It's not a difficult choice.

If your argument is that we should nationalize the energy sector so government can get involved more directly to mitigate financing issues, sure. We both know that's not going to happen.

BombOmOm ,
@BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

How does one provide power when the renewables don't provide enough power (nights, etc)? Our current solution is natural gas. Nuclear is a huge step up as a carbon-free provider.

IchNichtenLichten ,
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

Storage, there are many options. Pumped hydro is great for places with elevation change, molten salt is great for desert climates. Batteries, green hydrogen, compressed gas, etc.

We've been storing energy for thousands of years. It's not difficult in the way nuclear fusion, SMRs, or thorium are difficult.

We're also moving towards EVs. I'd like to see investment in using a fleet of connected EVs as a giant battery. Your energy company can pay you for making 10-15% of your EV battery available for grid storage and you can opt out if you need that extra range for a trip.

gazter ,

The largest battery on the planet would power my workplace for less than two hours- if it could meet the instant demand, which it cannot.

I'm all for energy storage, but I realise there's a lot of work to do.

IchNichtenLichten ,
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

1,200MW isn't enough? Where do you work?

Why do you think batteries can't meet instant demand? That's kind of their whole thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/feb/05/worlds-biggest-battery-with-1200mw-capacity-set-to-be-built-in-nsw-hunter-valley-australia

chaogomu ,

The article talks about the coming droughts and water shortages. Pumped hydro is nice, if you have water.

IchNichtenLichten ,
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

There's evaporation, which can be mitigated by floating solar panels, but pumped hydro is a closed system, it doesn't consume water.

DumbAceDragon , in Young climate activist tells Greenpeace to drop ‘old-fashioned’ anti-nuclear stance
@DumbAceDragon@sh.itjust.works avatar

Normally I'm not a "lesser of two evils" type, but nuclear is such an immensely lesser evil compared to coal and oil that it's insane people are still against it.

viperex , in Trump, Under Oath, Says He Averted ‘Nuclear Holocaust’

It's like watching Cartman come up with crazier and crazier stories as he takes credit for the fish sticks joke

hairinmybellybutt , in New research shows renewables are more profitable than nuclear power

If you want profit, why not pick coal or natural gaz?

I mean really?

veganpizza69 OP ,
@veganpizza69@lemmy.world avatar

If you want to waste all your money, why not pick nuclear?

hairinmybellybutt ,

Electricity should be expensive for all the benefits it brings

vlad76 , in Russian Anti-War Activist Sentenced To Six Years In Prison For Internet Posts
@vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Here's hoping they assassinate Putin soon.

IchNichtenLichten ,
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

Sadly there’s no guarantee that whoever would replace him would be better.

NoneOfUrBusiness , in ‘Russian-only’ businesses in Thailand’s Phuket spark backlash

I get that we all hate what Russia is doing in Ukraine but yikes y'all are racist.

IchNichtenLichten ,
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

Russia is a big country, do you have a particular race in mind?

Hackerman_uwu , in Taiwan hits back at Elon Musk claim that it is ‘an integral part of China’ and teases him over Beijing’s Twitter ban

Why does this tool have an opinion about absolutely everything?

IchNichtenLichten ,
@IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world avatar

Truly smart people are happy to give opinions about topics they have some knowledge of and tend to not weigh in on things they know they're ignorant about. Then there are people like Musk who seem to think they're an authority on absolutely fucking everything.

9488fcea02a9 , in American XL bully dogs to be banned after attacks, Rishi Sunak says

I'm not a dog breed expert, but...

The other day an agressive dog that looked like a pitbull, suddenly lunged at me barking loudly... It was about 10ft away from me but still scared the shit out of me

The owner yanked the dog back on its leash and i thought, "FML, the only thing that saved me from a deadly mauling was a 3/4 inch wide piece of nylon with a metal clip the guy bought off amazon for $5"

Seraph ,
@Seraph@kbin.social avatar

"But my little velvet hippo couldn't hurt anyone!"

snipgan ,
@snipgan@kbin.social avatar

To be fair most won’t, but they definitely can and do.

Especially when they are jaws on legs that are more inclined compared to other dogs.

Seraph ,
@Seraph@kbin.social avatar

The actual issue is that's it's a degenerative disease in dogs of similar breeds. At some point they get old and less able to recognize friend from foe. That might be ok if it weren't for the jaws you mentioned.

snipgan ,
@snipgan@kbin.social avatar

Exactly.

I'd go one step farther and even say if they even had the same amount of attacks as other dogs, had no possible mental diseases, and all want to caring homes I would still put restrictions/ban on them.

They are just too large to handle, too big of a bite to brush off, and end up in dog attacks a lot. That's enough for me.

jopepa ,

Hippos are super aggressive, territorial, and will bite a crocodiles in half. It’s amazing that’s supposed to be a cute, disarming nickname for a breed notorious for the same traits.

slaacaa ,

A shitbull owner using a leash, rare combination.

sturmblast ,

blame the owner not the dog

Luvs2Spuj ,

Blame both if the dog is a known dangerous breed.

joel_feila ,
@joel_feila@lemmy.world avatar

not if that is sarcasm or not, but most likely there was no pitull in that that dog.

DauntingFlamingo ,

Based on what?

joel_feila ,
@joel_feila@lemmy.world avatar

many many studies have shown that people can breeds apart.

9488fcea02a9 ,

not sarcasm at all...

regardless of breed, this dog looked like he was about to fuck up my whole day, so my point stands

joel_feila ,
@joel_feila@lemmy.world avatar

as does my point.

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