American wanting to move abroad, what's the best bet for an registered nurse?

Hi there, I'm a registered nurse in Phoenix, Arizona and I'm seriously considering moving abroad because this country is driving me insane for a lot of reasons. I was considering moving to Israel since I'm Jewish and I've heard they have a better healthcare system there and pay nurses well but this war has made me not really consider that anymore, so I'm open to suggestions. Thanks

Gonzako ,

Spain? We've free Healthcare, lots of British and German immigrate here to escape the bad weather. I've never seen any jew communities in Spain but I don't believe you'll be in trouble for having said faith.

Squizzy ,

Ireland. English speaking, need nurses, Americans move here handy enough. Your faith wont matter.

reallyzen ,
@reallyzen@lemmy.ml avatar

Check out Switzerland. Huge private healthcare network, expensive country but the salary is high too. Excellent public transport, good social protection... And magnificent landscapes, smack in the middle of Europe you have access to everywhere. You'll have to learn French or German tho. It can be a bit quiet, but very very safe. Traditional food is meh, especially if you're not a fan of melted cheese by the bucket.

problematicPanther ,
@problematicPanther@lemmy.world avatar

Hard to get into as a foreigner, though. Best bet to get in would be through the various international orgs like the red cross or MSF

reallyzen ,
@reallyzen@lemmy.ml avatar

That's why I mentioned "huge private healthcare network": the employer does the Work Visa authorisation paperwork for you.

GiddyGap ,

Switzerland intentionally makes things hard for Americans. For example, it's very hard to open a bank account because the US government have harsh reporting rules for American citizens. And Switzerland has strong financial privacy rules. So they just deny American citizens.

bitwaba ,

In the UK visas are awarded on a points system. You get X number of points for having a college degree, Y points for it being in a certain field, etc. from what I've been told, nurses and doctors immediately qualify for all points required to get a visa just based on profession

However, as someone that moved to the UK 13 years ago, I don't consider it a great destination. Prexit really screwed everything up. Having an EU passport would have been an incredible complement to my US passport, but now a British passport is no more useful that my American passport, especially since most of my travel is to the European continent. Also, the NHS is being gutted continually so in all id just say it's not the most desirable location if you're in the healthcare field.

At minimum, I'd look at countries that are properly in the EU, which includes Ireland. Other countries in western Europe would be great as well I think, depending on what kind of life you're looking to live in. Something I've noticed is that generally Europe very quickly transitions from city to countryside. In the US you'll get suburbs that stretch for dozens of miles past the core infrastructure of the nearest major city, where as in Europe it's usually straight to farming fields and two lane roads.

France, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain and Germany would all be excellent locations to start a new life in healthcare I think. Each of those (except the Netherlands maybe) would expect you to be working towards fluency in their language though, so if you're not interested in learning a foreign language that is definitely something to consider - which is why Ireland and Dublin specifically is so desirable to Tech companies and has been for the last 15 years.

In general I would say that as someone in the healthcare field, you do have a job that is valued highly as far as getting a visa is concerned in Europe.

Foofighter ,

I don't want to botch your plans but you gotta keep in mind that the educational systems in the EU and US are very different. Being a RN might not mean a lot abroad.
I Germany there is however a lack of nurses and programs to recruit internationally. Maybe the situation is similar in other EU countries.

Where ever you are planing to go: Compare salaries cost of living, and what is publicly funded and what not.
I think many people are turned off from moving because salaries are lower...

raef ,

An RN degree in the US is often a bachelor's degree. They didn't really have university degrees for nurses in Germany (there are nursing management degrees). There is obviously a licensing test, but that should be the only barrier.

NeoNachtwaechter ,

Working in healthcare --> always consider Norway, because they pay good and their system is well funded. That's so much more than you can say about most other countries.

adespoton ,

If you don’t want to move far and want a similar but more centrist culture, you could move to Canada — this would make it easy to move back in the future if you want. And unlike many Americans, as a RN, you could actually move without much difficulty. I know a number of RNs who have made the move and are happy about it.

JewishLeftist OP ,

Canada is high on my list

otp ,

Healthcare is kind of in a situation in many parts of Canada now. Look into the situation in each of the provinces you're considering. (Healthcare is run at the provincial level, not federal)

I'm not in healthcare, but I'm trying to stay politically aware.

We'd love to have you. I just want you to be prepared with the best information.

FenrirIII ,
@FenrirIII@lemmy.world avatar

As a person in technology, I envy you the chance to leverage a skill useful in the real world.

trolololol ,

Uh? Is technology now exclusive to hobbies?

BaroqueInMind ,

Good luck! Not only is it's expensive to do this, it will also take years.

If you manage to get it all figured out, please do not forget to update us all here!

JewishLeftist OP ,

Will do!

skullgiver ,
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

I don't want to dash your hopes of emigrating to a better country, but don't underestimate how painful emigration can be. You can't just pick a country and move there. Moving countries is not like moving states. You'll need to convince the country you're going that you're worth letting in. If I were you, I'd start with a list of countries that might be willing to let you in, and work your way down from there.

I would suggest Europe, the Nordics in particular; the Nordics are some of the best countries to live in in the entire world, with (in my opinion) rather pleasant politics in comparison. Germany and other north-western countries tend to score well too, but you'll have to look into how much they match your ideals and culture. Europe is generally on pretty good terms with the USA, which helps a lot. However, you're not alone in wanting to move there. Don't be surprised if the process of applying for permission to enter the country takes months to years and several thousand dollars in paperwork, time and money you don't get back if you're refused. Things can go a bit smoother if you've got a claim on citizenship by blood or family history, but that too can take time and paperwork to arrange, and is entirely dependent on the current laws in the countries your ancestors are from.

In many countries, being a highly skilled worker gives you a major advantage. However, your nursing education may not be accredited in other countries, or be considered "highly skilled" enough; with some bad luck, you may need to go back to school in your country of choice to get your education revalidated (if you're let in for that). The same goes for driver's licenses and certifications you may have achieved over the years.

One trick you may be able to use if you're of European descent is getting European citizenship by blood (I believe Italy, Spain, and a bunch of other countries allow for this) and then use the freedom the Schengen accords provide to move elsewhere in Europe, skipping a whole lot of paperwork. This way, you can, for example, work in Denmark without needing to go through the strict Danish immigration system (though validating your education may still need work).

Just as an example: if you want to apply for a license for a general nurse in Norway as a non-EEA citizen, processing time takes at least 11 months if you provide all the required paperwork and costs $152 to file (which you don't get back if you're refused). You need a license to be a general nurse; without a license, you can't do your job. Without a job, you can't just move there; you can get a temporary holiday visa but you can't apply for jobs with that. This is on top of the other requirements, like speaking B2 level Norwegian. If you apply, you may be given a deadline to conform with the requirements.

JewishLeftist OP ,

One trick you may be able to use if you’re of European descent is getting European citizenship by blood (I believe Italy, Spain, and a bunch of other countries allow for this) and then use the freedom the Schengen accords provide to move elsewhere in Europe, skipping a whole lot of paperwork. This way, you can, for example, work in Denmark without needing to go through the strict Danish immigration system (though validating your education may still need work).

My parents are of South African descent and afaik the only country I can move into automatically is Israel which atm is not on my list of movable countries. But Ill look into it for sure

skullgiver ,
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

That's unfortunate, these automatic visas bypass a lot of crap. Best of luck to you and your moving endeavours!

JewishLeftist OP ,

Thx!

Dreizehn ,
@Dreizehn@kbin.social avatar

Check out the Scandinavian countries, all of them blow away the rest of Europe and they are looking for medical professionals.

JewishLeftist OP ,

Norway especially looks attractive, especially with its strong left parties.

neidu2 ,

Can confirm.

Source: I'm a noggie and my sister in law is a nurse, and I get the impression they're always short staffed.

JewishLeftist OP ,

Nice, I guess I gotta learn Norwegian now.

neidu2 ,

Nah. "Everyone" here speaks english.

Actually, as a nurse I guess it makes sense - The few that don't are seniors.

As a native speaker I'm probably very biased, but I'm pretty sure norwegian is among the easier languages to learn. Just be aware of the WIDE variety of dialects - Some of them differ more than Norwegian and Swedish do.

JewishLeftist OP ,

Oh well in that case, then I really am considering Norway. Full disclosure: I'm a communist so one reason I'd move there is the fact it has communist parties (or at least one Im aware of) in their parliament.

neidu2 ,

Kind of. We have one political party simply named "Red". They're the result of a few far left parties joined forces a few years back, two of which were communists. I'm not a big fan of communism myself, as that's a bit too autocratic for my taste, but the fusion has resulted in a party that is more evened out and focused on general socialism.

JewishLeftist OP ,

Still far better than anything in the US

neidu2 ,

Definitely.

Badeendje ,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

Are you what Americans consider a communist or an actual one? Cause in Europe you will find that what Americans consider far left in politics is actually right of center still.

JewishLeftist OP ,

I'm an actual Communist.

Salix ,

You'll probably like countries that follows the Nordic Model

JewishLeftist OP ,

Prob yeah

FaizalR ,
@FaizalR@kbin.social avatar

Gaza need you.

JewishLeftist OP ,

Jews aren't allowed into Gaza.

kava ,

There are right wing populists in virtually every democracy these days. It's not an issue unique to the US. I think it's a byproduct of our times. Economic uncertainty + geopolitical tensions and war = hard shift to the right.

JewishLeftist OP ,

Fair enough

fine_sandy_bottom ,

I think it's more tangible in the US.

Obi ,
@Obi@sopuli.xyz avatar

Definitely, while it's true everywhere is shifting right, the US is starting off from a much further right starting point.

png ,

Yes but Germany saw millions of protestors over a sub-20% party. In the US, 50% of people want to vote in someone who is openly fascist and wants to abolish democracy and round up immigrants in camps.

kava ,

Couple of things

There was a 62% voter turnout in the 2020 election. 46.8% of voters voted for Trump.

0.62 x 0.468 = .290

So actually, 29% of people voted for Trump.

If we do the same calculation for AfD in 2021. 76.6% voter turnout in Germany and AfD got 10.4% of votes.

0.766 x 0.104 = 0.799

So the difference looks like 29% to 8% US to Germany.

But you have to remember the US and Germany are different political systems. There are only two parties in the US, so each of the big parties (DNC, GOP) have many different factions. Moderate Republicans would be an entirely different party from Trumpian "MAGA" Republicans if the US had a party system like Germany.

They functionally ally together in order to form a government, much like different parties will do in parliamentary systems in Europe.

So if we for example take the center-right Christian conservative party and add that to AfD, which in my opinion more closely resembles the GOP, we get the following numbers.

76.6% voter turnout. AfD got 10.4% of votes. CDU got 24.1% of votes.

0.766 x (0.104 + 0.241) = .264

So we're actually looking at a ratio more like 29% US to 26% Germany. Fundamentally not that different.

And last thing I'd like to add. Shifts in the political Overton window like we're seeing right now happens at an exponential rate. It's why Germany in the early 1900s went from a liberal democratic society to full blown Fascist dictatorship fairly quickly.

I think the process has started in the US first, but the movement is shifting to other countries too. US news is emphasized because of the importance of the US as a superpower, but this process of the hard shift to the right is happening in many countries.

We see it not only in certain parties gaining ground like Fratelli d'Italia, Sweden Democrats, Rassemblement National, Alternative für Deutschland, etc - but the rhetoric changing. Anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim rhetoric that would be rare a decade or two ago is seeing a large increase.

We see populist like Argentina's Milei, Brazil's Bolsonaro, Canada's Poilievre, etc all following the footsteps of Trump and being wildly successful. People globally feel insecure and it's a ripe environment for these types of right-wing populists.

I view the US as the leader of the Zietgiest right now, much like Germany was the leader of the Zietgiest during WW2. It's leading the pack, but we're all headed towards the same destination.

Grobmobularb , (edited )

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    glimse ,

    I think your first sentence is fragmented.

    Grobmobularb ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

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    card797 ,

    Classy.

    glimse ,

    Does your fake son know you're the type of loser who frequently leaves comments on porn posts?

    Nothing you can say hurt me lmao

    Grobmobularb ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

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    adespoton ,

    Spoken like a true neglected 13 year old boy.

    As you get older, you’ll find that actual relationships are more rewarding than trolling.

    Grobmobularb ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

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    glimse ,

    You're not fucking with anyone if everyone is either laughing at you or pitying you

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    It's a troll

    glimse ,

    It's fun to make fun of trolls before they get banned

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    agreed

    Grobmobularb ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

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    JewishLeftist OP ,

    Lol

    Grobmobularb ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

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    jeffw ,

    Personally, as a fellow Jewish leftist I’d advise against moving to Israel. If you think politics are toxic here (maybe I’m reading into what you mean by things driving you insane), Israel is much worse. I’m not sure which countries have the easiest visa process but you probably have some flexibility as an RN. You could look into a travel nurse job that lets you move across Europe and try a few different places out.

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    By driving me insane, I was in fact referring to the rightward drift of the US. And I don't just mean Trump, but the entire GOP and the fact the only opposition to them is the limp centrist Democratic Party. So yeah, Israel is probably much worse post 10/7.

    Europe would be cool, Germany especially though I've heard its less safe now.

    jeffw ,

    If you’re concerned about a rightward drift, you’re not going to like many places in Europe. I also wouldn’t leave a country because of a temporary political shift. America’s left is more powerful now than it’s been in close to 100 years and it’s only growing with the next generation. If politics is the main reason you want to leave, I’d seriously encourage you to rethink things. That seems very shortsighted, especially given the political tide in Europe.

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    Is Europe going further right than the US?

    lurch ,

    no

    ImFresh3x ,
    @ImFresh3x@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Socially it is moving pretty fast to the right in many places. They still have trains and healthcare. For now. Most US cities are as left leaning as Europe is.

    jeffw ,

    Than the US? Eastern Europe, sure. A lot of the rest is heading in the wrong direction, whereas the US seems to be moving in the right (left) direction.

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    The US is moving to the left?

    jeffw ,

    Have you met a gen Z kid? The most conservative Americans are dying off and religion is TANKING at a record pace.

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    I hope you're right

    gdog05 ,

    The trick is waiting for Boomers to die. This is where your nursing skills can really pay off...

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    They cant die soon enough lol

    Knuschberkeks ,

    isn't nursing kinda working against the whole dying thing?

    gdog05 ,

    Not when it's done badly. I believe there was one on the front page of Lemmy just this morning.

    cabbage ,
    @cabbage@piefed.social avatar

    If by Eastern Europe you mean Belarus and Hungary, maybe.

    fine_sandy_bottom ,

    This isn't the impression that I get about the US at all.

    The conservative movement is stronger than ever. Half the country wants to install a conservative dictator?

    Youth have always been left leaning. For every Gen Z vegan pouting about climate change there's a thirty something that just bought their own home and decided that things are "ok just as they are".

    Since the advent of social media politics across the globe has been sliding to the right and I don't see that trajectory changing in the imminent future.

    jeffw ,

    As a millennial 30-something, my ilk are only slightly left of the older generation. Gen Z, of which I have some (in-law) siblings, is different. These are kids who saw the Trump shit, even if they didn’t totally understand it all. But it left an impression. They are also way more open minded and waaaay less religious. That alone indicates a shift left. And the old adage of shifting right in your 30s/40s has not held for millennials. Assuming it doesn’t hold for Gen X (why would it?), the US is going in a promising direction.

    One problem we do have is an activation of boomer voters in response to this stuff. But y’know what Gen X has that Boomers don’t? Time.

    lurch ,

    In Germany nurses are often not well payd IMO, but there are different kinds of nurses, so idk.. there are strikes in the news from time to time. ... but at least it's okay and well accepted to strike in Germany

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    Yeah but I guess I'd be concerned a bit about the rise of antisemitism there Ive heard about

    cabbage ,
    @cabbage@piefed.social avatar

    In Germany? You'll be fine, they're very aware of the threat of antisemitism but it's not any worse than elsewhere.

    Now, whether German culture is enjoyable is another question.

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    Well I like beer so doesn't that make me German deep down? :p

    JJROKCZ ,

    Liking one of humanity’s oldest and most commonly drank beverages does not make you German, no

    Diplomjodler3 ,

    It's as safe as it ever was and much safer than most places here in Germany. But you'll need to speak German to get a job in the healthcare sector here. And the pay isn't great.

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    I speak fluent German actually so that wouldnt be a problem

    cabbage ,
    @cabbage@piefed.social avatar

    I'd consider Bolzano. You'd get by with German, and you get to live in a beautiful part of the arguably most beautiful country of Europe.

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    Bolzano

    I forgot that theres a German part of Italy. That would be very cool to live in, best of both worlds

    Diplomjodler3 ,

    If you try to get away from fascism, moving to Italy might not be such a great idea.

    cabbage ,
    @cabbage@piefed.social avatar

    Israeli politics have been fucked for a long time. Netanyahu has always been a dangerous extremist, and the fact that people repeatedly voted for him speaks volumes for the political culture.

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    To be fair there's huge protests against Bibi but your point is well taken

    NoneOfUrBusiness ,

    There are protests against Bibi because of his disregard for the hostages' lives and attempt to destroy Israeli democracy. His party isn't losing support AFAIK, and the right wing is actually growing.

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    Oh?

    NoneOfUrBusiness ,

    Yeah. The protests aren't because Bibi's actions are too right-wing; they're because even as a far-right leader he's doing a shit job. Him being a genocidal far right leader isn't, as a rule, an issue with the general Israeli public. You can look at this if you wanna lose some faith in humanity.

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    I knew the protests were more about his attempt to become Israel's Putin but I assumed some of the opposition was to the war but guess not..

    Knuschberkeks ,

    I'm a nurse in germany. From what I hear from colleagues who studied/worked abroad, the job is very different in Germany than most other countries. (I haven't met anyone who worked in the US.) Mostly, nursing in germany involves a lot less medical tasks, which are reserved for doctors. In turn you'll do a lot more bedside care.

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    So its more like patient care technicians?

    Knuschberkeks ,

    I had to google what that is. According to this link https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/careers/what-does-a-patient-care-technician-do
    It involves a lot of the same tasks. I do everything that is listed there, except escorting patients and cleaning rooms. But i also have more tasks. I administer medication (I can only administer medication prescribed by a doctor). I change dressings. I do lots of coordination (e.g. with the surgery or radiology team, also stuff around release, like how does the patient get home, where does a patient go if he can't live alone anymore, where do they get their medication, who will change dressings etc.). I'm also the first responder in an emergency like cardiac arrest.
    I should probably add that this will vary across hospitals. I work in a mid size hospital (about 500 beds). Generally the bigger the hospital the more additional staff is there to take over some of the "patient care technician tasks" from nurses. Also there are obviously jobs a nurse can do that involve medical tasks that almost exclusively, like working in an emergency room or as a surgical assistant.

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    Interesting, thanks for this. I'll keep all this in mind

    Knuschberkeks ,

    If you're interested in a nursing job in Germany, hit me up. I get a bonus if I bring in a new nurse ;-)

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    Can I message you directly?

    Knuschberkeks ,

    yes

    Knuschberkeks ,

    I'm getting an error when trying to respond to your message. I'm gonna try and resolve it in the afternoon (well, my afternoon. It's 5:40 in the morning here and I'm on the last half hour of night shift)

    raef ,

    Sort of like LPNs. Education is similar as well

    Retiring ,
    @Retiring@lemmy.ml avatar

    Germany/Austria/Switzerland. You absolutely need to learn German though. It’s not unsafe here, but the right shift is happening all across Europe right now.

    JewishLeftist OP ,

    I speak fluent German so not a problem

    Raylon ,

    In Switzerland we pretty much lack professional healthcare staff all the time (like half our doctors are from Germany it feels). I'm not working in the industry but afaik nursing is better paid than in Germany, just other conditions around the job are very stressful and make many people leave.

    During Covid, things got bad enough that a popular initiative by the trade unions got passed which demanded augmentations to the working conditions. The concrete improvements will soon get voted on and hopefully quickly implemented.

    If you already speak German fluently, learning to understand Swiss German will hopefully not be too much of a challenge to you.

    Update:
    I looked it up and a professional nurse makes on average a bit more than median income here.

    Obi ,
    @Obi@sopuli.xyz avatar

    Everything is better paid in Switzerland, like, a lot. And also, you're then living in Switzerland.... Since OP speaks German I would also highly recommend putting Switzerland at the top of the list since you'll be 2/3x better paid than neighbouring countries (and, again, living in beautiful, lovely Switzerland).

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