Cryophilia

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Cryophilia ,

Personally, when I'm working through a problem, I'll usually force it into words (either out loud or to myself), but that's a conscious action rather than a subconscious response. I choose to speak those things, and it's me (not an amorphous voice) who speaks them.

But often after forcing the thoughts into words I'll hit upon an interesting thread, and my mind will leap ahead faster than spoken language can catch up. It's only when I hit a roadblock that I slow things down into language-speed.

Cryophilia ,

Yeah it confused me for so long

Instructor: "what I want you to do is stop thinking"

Me, internally: okay, done

Instructor: "I know that may be the hardest thing to ask, but I want you to quiet your mind"

Me, internally: yep, already did it

Instructor: "once you learn how to stop the constant parade of thoughts in your head and just listen to the world around you, you will find great peace"

Me, internally: I do that all the time what

Cryophilia ,

My mental radio is rarely off, but I don't have an internal monologue.

Cryophilia ,

From how people are describing it, it's a necessary addition rather than an optional one

Cryophilia OP ,

Inspired by the 300 billionth "women of reddit what are green flags" thread. The thought struck me "hey you're complaining about all these guys you dated but you still dated them...what's up with that?"

Cryophilia OP ,

That's a new one

Cryophilia OP ,

Worst retort I ever heard.

Cryophilia OP ,

Depends on your criteria for failure. If you're looking for marriage and kids, not a great strategy. If you're just looking to have fun, statistically it's very reasonable. These guys got dates with these women. Consistently enough to form a trope.

Cryophilia OP ,

Aw, honey, you're doing it again. Try harder next time.

Cryophilia OP ,

Literally warfare

Trenches of love

Cryophilia OP ,

It's okay, one day you'll get it

Cryophilia OP ,

At some point if you keep preferring houses with asbestos, it's on you

Cryophilia ,

Not nearly as often as the abusers successfully use it lol

Most mods are a "permaban first so I don't have to deal with it" type

Cryophilia ,

For claiming to hate bootlickers lemmy sure does enjoy when opposing voices are silenced.

And yes, if it's against the rules to talk about the color orange, then repeated warnings/comment removals for mentioning the color orange before finally banning me for mentioning the color orange is still silencing. Just more protracted. I'm not gonna start pretending there's no such thing as orange.

Cryophilia ,

"Just remember, men: under no circumstances are women ever wrong. Every problem is caused by you and must be fixed by you."

Cryophilia ,

Women have the right to feel uncomfortable around unknown men.

I guess

Men have the right to feel hurt by that sentiment.

Fair enough.

But it’s not the responsibility of women to coddle the men and make them feel better.

Okay, I'm following

The men need to understand that they can only control themselves. Part of controlling themselves is to empathize with women and try to understand why they would choose the bear.

Whoa whoa wait, so it is the responsibility of men to coddle the women and make them feel better?

Choosing the bear is stupid and irrational. But isn't it on women to stop being irrational, rather than on men to make them feel comfortable enough to make the rational choice?

Or, alternatively, if it's on men to make women feel comfortable, then isn't it women's responsibility to not cause men to feel hurt?

You can't have it both ways. Either each gender has a right to be irrational and needs to figure their own shit out, or each gender has a responsibility to help the other feel better about gender relations. What you wrote is "men have a problem? Men need to fix it. Women have a problem? Men also need to fix it."

Cryophilia ,

My point was that in a post full of "you" and "yourself" finger-pointing at men, the poster never once even broached the idea that maybe women are the ones being mean and hurtful.

Men do something hurtful to women? It's the fault of men, men need to fix that.

Women do something hurtful to men? It's also the fault of men, and men need to fix that.

I don't want to call it victim-blaming, but it's in a similar vein. There's a very "look what you made me do" vibe from women when it comes to men's hurt feelings.

Cryophilia ,

take a hard look at yourself

What have you done

That's very obvious finger pointing at men. It's entirely possible that women are being completely irrational in picking a bear over a man, right? Why is that on men to fix? Why is that men's fault? Maybe women need to look at the toxicity of their own media and social circles.

I completely agree that men have some work to do, and it's very true that there are a lot of things men do that make women distrustful of men in general. But that's only one side of the coin. Like you said, empathy works BOTH WAYS. You should listen to the men who are hurt because of this meme, not dismiss them.

Cryophilia ,

Ah, sorry, I took it for granted that we were on the same page about it being irrational. Taking the worst experience you've ever had, and expecting it to happen all the time, is a trauma response. It's understandable, but it is in no way reasonable. I wish we could acknowledge that without women claiming we're dismissing their lived experiences.

Cryophilia ,

Are you trying to equivalence

Nope. Glad we've cleared that up.

do you feel like a woman you’ve never met saying she’d rather be around a bear than you is somehow making you a victim?

Yes. It's sexism. Sexism (like racism, antisemitism, etc) victimizes all the people who are subject to it.

Cryophilia ,

Having your guard up is understandable and perfectly rational. Implying that all or most men are rapists is not rational at all. Saying that the average man is more dangerous than a bear is not rational at all. It's no more rational than someone who gets mugged by a black man suggesting that black people are criminal thugs.

Replace sex with race and you see how bad the viewpoint is.

Cryophilia ,

It's like when a woman goes to the doctor with terrible pain and the doctor says it's just menstrual cramps and to go home and take an advil.

Us: "hey there's a problem we should address"

You: "Silly woman proletariat, just take an advil seize the means of production"

Cryophilia ,

Women: "men are horrible rapists"

Men who are not rapists: "hey that's pretty insulting"

Women: "oh not you, you're one of the good ones"

Men who are not rapists: "oh well in that case please proceed with your sexism"

??

Cryophilia ,

Some things aren’t about me, aren’t for me, and that’s ok.

Most countries literally have laws against that, they're just not applied to straight white men😂

Dogs bite people. But better to pet a dog than a lion.

Outlets shock people. I'd rather use an electric heater than set a fire in my house.

This is the bear meme. It's not about the thing. It's about the comparison.

Cryophilia ,

In general yes I agree with you. But I think bigotry is a reasonable hard line that we shouldn't tolerate.

Cryophilia ,

Purely personal speculation here, I haven't done any hard reading on the subject:

I suspect we need a two-pronged approach. There's two issues here. The first one, and by far and away the most important one to address, is the simple fact that women are being assaulted a lot. I don't think that fact is in question among rational people. The way we've been attempting to fix this so far is to tell men to not rape women. It should be pretty obvious that tactic has a very limited potential to help. Anyone willing to listen to women saying to not rape them, isn't generally interested in raping women in the first place. We need different methods to reach people who either aren't interested in listening, or who don't think what they're doing is "bad". This will require a lot of work and research, but the first step is acknowledging that the current efforts are not helping.

The second issue is the amplification of toxic mindsets among women. Like I said, this is absolutely not as big a problem, but it is a problem, and it's one we haven't been allowed to talk about for fear of being labeled misogynistic. Women say "not all men" as if it's a joke, but it's actually a REALLY IMPORTANT TRUE STATEMENT. Men wanting to not be discriminated against should not be the butt of a joke. Sexism is not okay, even in response to sexism. We need to clamp down on that and make it clear that such language is not acceptable.

The phrase "women's safety is more important than men's feelings" is just as disingenuous as calling the anti-abortion movement the "pro-life" movement. Because it's not about women's safety, everyone here agrees that women's safety is important. This whole discussion is about women's perception of safety: women's feelings.

When you say "women's safety is more important than men's feelings"

What you mean is "women's feelings is more important than men's feelings"

And that's not cool. That's sexism.

Cryophilia ,

Also, wtf, downvoting the guy asking for solutions? Explain yourself, lemmy

Cryophilia ,

If we could just add one more line at the bottom: "but men's feelings ARE important", then I think we'd be on the right path.

Cryophilia ,

So my initial response was "jesus fuck that's some unnecessary hyperbole, I get your point but that's ridiculous"

And then I realized that's the same response I have with women who pick the bear so

I dunno

Maybe you all suck?

Cryophilia ,

I don't think it's a psyop. Just ragebait

Cryophilia ,

and this post did not dispute that.

I strongly disagree; I think this post is very dismissive of men's feelings. In fact I'd say that's the central intent of the meme.

Cryophilia , (edited )

No it's not and that's a terrible way to view the world.

Are you the same idiot who argued with me before because he thought he'd found the Word of God in this random philosophical exercise?

Edit: nope, different moron. I wonder why this silly thing is making the idiot rounds lately? It's like when a 19 year old has their first philosophy 101 class and thinks they've gained supreme knowledge of how the world works.

https://lemmy.world/comment/9746636

Cryophilia ,

Yes, it's a thought exercise, not a tautology. And it's not a great thought exercise either, because people of low intellect apparently assume it's a tautology because of how it's worded.

Cryophilia ,

Or maybe hyperbole is not the best way to make a point?

Cryophilia ,

k

Cryophilia ,

It would get zero upvotes because everyone agrees with that statement.

The problem with the bear thing is it was always about feelings, not safety. Men's and women's feelings. Perceptions of safety.

Cryophilia ,

Those are more or less synonymous.

I can tell you've been huffing too much philosophy because you insist on weird hair splitting like this lol

Cryophilia ,

I guess I could see what you were going for there, but it was a bit of a stretch imo

Cryophilia ,

For a viral meme, absolutely

Cryophilia ,

Then block me, bigot

Cryophilia ,

So you're saying women are too stupid to act rationally? Come on, man. Women are intelligent people. They don't get a pass if they do something stupid, they're not helpless kittens, they have agency. They are not slaves to emotion.

Cryophilia ,

So like, do you think women are too stupid to act rationally? Or no?

Cryophilia ,

No, actually, that's not rational at all. That's textbook irrationality. That's feelings, not thought.

Cryophilia ,

The point isnt the bear.

The point is absolutely the bear. Without the bear, it's a reasonable statement. With the bear (or any other animal) it's an insult.

Cryophilia ,

So it's about her feelings.

Cryophilia ,

Does that make me sexist?

Yes.

Or particularly stupid about wild animals and how dangerous they are.

I suppose it's possible that you think bears are just cute cuddly creatures that would never harm anyone, so obviously you'd prefer to be with a bear.

In fact I suspect that's behind a lot of pro-Bear answers, at least partially. Sure, some sexism, but also a giant heap of regular old "what is the capital of Africa" style stupidity.

Cryophilia ,

What a terrible way to live.

Cryophilia ,

Circa 2012ish

It's a zoomer thing. Very recent phenomenon.

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