This particular platform (Lemmy) probably isn't the place to get the movement going either. Some of the biggest instances are chock full of folks thinking this particular genocide isn't real
This is why I tend to avoid Lemmy and use kbin/mbin. Beehaw is technically Lemmy but is an instance that I could see forking the code if the Tankies try anything.
The Beehaw maintainers already said they plan to move to something else, as when they complained about unimplemented moderation features the devs acted like douchebags and outright told them to leave the platform if they didn't like it, when they move on from Lemmy i will follow them to whatever they move to, hopefully still on Fedi
This will happen in every industry. There's no ethical consumption under our current system because there's no way to track where resources, materials, items come from, who made them, and how their workers are being treated.
Edit: I just remembered the story from the last year Or two where they found all those kids working in meat plants in the USA. Slavery and other unethical practices happen globally. I wish there was better ways to stop it. I'm glad people are talking about it and hopefully it leads to better outcomes in the future
there's no way tovtrack where resources, material, items come from, who made them
Independent audits are done -they are very common in many industry for a variety of reasons- and they work if done properly.
We could even track the provenance of each material through a trustless system like a blockchain to guarantuee a high level of credibility and transparency, just to name a relatively new technology. This is done already.
How would block chain prevent a Chinese supplier from lying about where their bauxite shipments come from? The whole crypto space has shown that scams and fraud aren't made any less prevalent when block chains are involved
You wouldn't trust the Chinese supplier (or any supplier). You'd go to the bauxite shipment company and let them register with the network, you'd send independent auditors to their premises, very much as we do it with ibdependent audits nowadays.
We do need to physically access the premises across the supply chain to verify that 'on-chain personas' reflect their 'real' identities. But no single authority can control the data, we can be quite sure that all transfers of ownership across the supply chain have been authorized by their controllers. Compared to centralized systems, the blockchain provides us a much higher level of transparency and certainty over the fidelity of the information.
Not sure what you’re referring to exactly. VW is saying they can’t comply with the new law because China is not transparent enough. Sounds like that’s the truth.
Would you expect them to simply stop doing business in China as a result of this lack of transparency?
Yes, that's exactly what I expect. If you can't verify with 100% certainty that your supply chain isn't using slave labor, then you stop using that supply chain. And if that costs the company an entire market, or even causes the company to fail, then so be it.
Yeah I think I agree. The law should be: if you can’t positively confirm it’s clean, you can’t use it.
We should have standards for the treatment of people, and strive not to participate in or reward those who treat people in unacceptable ways.
If we have to take on some difficulty for that, so be it. Maybe if our difficulty gets to the point where I’m hungry, I’ll choose differently. But until then I’m willing to take a break from this or that car brand until they can figure out ethical sourcing.
I do think, to whatever extent possible, the change should be implemented smoothly. Maybe a rapidly-growing tariff on such goods for a few years, followed by a ban on their import, instead of an immediate ban on the import.
It’s not good for a country to create an unfair marketplace. And it is an unfair marketplace when rules which acutely affect only certain people drastically for the good of all, are implemented too quickly to adapt to without major setbacks.
Just saying it should be phased in, to minimize local economic tearing.
Yeah I think I agree. The law should be: if you can’t positively confirm it’s clean, you can’t use it.
We should have standards for the treatment of people, and strive not to participate in or reward those who treat people in unacceptable ways.
Totally agree.
It’s not good for a country to create an unfair marketplace. And it is an unfair marketplace when rules which acutely affect only certain people drastically for the good of all, are implemented too quickly to adapt to without major setbacks.
Just saying it should be phased in, to minimize local economic tearing.
Totally disagree.
Fines/tariffs/etc. are just cost of doing business for big business. Slowly enforcing regulation gives companies time to hedge, shuffle, and deflect without actually doing anything. Consequences should be hard and fast. Economies be damned. If an economy can't stand on its own without companies acting ethically, or with them being punished for it, then it shouldn't stand at all.
These aren’t “consequences”. These are new rules we’re imposing on good people.
The fact you view this as a war between you and the companies being regulated means I hope you are never a regulator. You see it as an operation to take them down. That’s fucked up.
Wait. We're talking about making sure a company isn't using slave labor in their supply chain, and creating consequences for them doing so. And that's a problem for you? You think it's fucked up that a company forced to abide by rules preventing them from using slave labor?
I’ve already explained my position and you’ve already demonstrated an unwillingness to interpret what I say generously. You’ll get no more conversation with me until you stop trying to trap me.
I was thinking about this comment, far too often the argument is "what could they do if they aren't getting the help from the Chinese government " etc, and it's all shit. If we were buying something from a little boutique one person seller and we found out that somewhere in the process of making it they used slave labour we would all rightfully kick off. So why do massive companies, who could do much much more, get a free pass yet we hold individuals up to a much higher standard.
VW can demand transparency (e.g. access to supply chain facilities by 3rd party auditors) as a prerequisite to doing business with a partner company. It is absolutely standard to demand that business partners have had 3rd party audits to prove they comply with laws and regulations. This is not some insane ask, this is everyday stuff in the business world.
If a company can't or won't get an auditor to validate that they comply with PCI-DSS, for instance, they're not going to be signed on for processing payment card information by other companies.
And slave labor is a tad bit worse than retaining too many data fields in a credit card for too many days.
Headline gore. Israel is Intentionally Starving Children to Death would be much more succinct.
But why chop HRW's perfectly good headline up to make it weaker and push responsibility away from Israel? These kids aren't magically dying because of Israel's policies on food, Israel is killing them by taking their food away. It's super weird to put distance between cause and effect here; I expect it from media outlets, I don't expect it from Beehaw posters.
It's like when US police kill a pedestrian in a chase and media outlets say "Pedestrian was Struck by Police Car while Officer was Chasing Suspect."
No, the police car didn't strike a pedestrian while a police chase was happening. A police officer struck and killed a pedestrian with their vehicle during a reckless chase. The car isn't an entity that makes decisions.
It touches on it briefly, but refeeding syndrome is a killer and is very hard to treat even in hospital not in a war zone. Even if the war stopped tomorrow and food was abundant, there’s nowhere to treat patients who have been starving - more will die.
Exactly. NGOs are pointing out that aid drops etc are not going to fix this, once famine hits you need a framework of relief workers, and the situation is far away from being able to have that.
hrw.org
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