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GeriatricGardener , to israel group
@GeriatricGardener@kolektiva.social avatar

“‘Illusions and Lies’ – Lebanon Denies Telegraph Claims about Weapon Stockpile at Beirut Airport”

by Palestine Chronicle Staff @palestinechron

@palestine @israel

“The Air Transport Union in Lebanon () has refuted The Telegraph’s report alleging that ‘Hezbollah stores missiles and explosives at Lebanon’s main airport,’ criticizing the claims as unsubstantiated.

The UTA dismissed The Telegraph’s allegations as ‘mere illusions and lies aimed at endangering Beirut Airport and its civilian workers, as well as travelers to and from it, all of whom are civilians’.”

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/illusions-and-lies-lebanon-denies-telegraph-claims-about-weapon-stockpile-at-beirut-airport/

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@the_Cornflower @GeriatricGardener @palestinechron @palestine @israel

Err, not because some militia resides there. Because that militia keeps bombing Israel from there. Hezbolla knows well it will fire rockets from villages, because it's safer to hide behind civilian population.

faab64 , to palestine group

Genocide Joe is walking in the footsteps of Ronald Reagan.

The last time didn't go very well for Americans.

Last time 70000 Lebanese lost their lives during Israeli occupation. And it gave birth to what is now Hezbollah who fought for almost 2 decades to kick out Israeli invadors.

How many will die this time?


@palestine @israel

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@faab64 @palestine @israel

The funny thing about the Hezbolla is that it did not lift a finger to oppose the Syrian occupation forces in Lebanon (1976-2006). The Syrians were finally kicked out of Lebanon by a coalition of forces that the Hezbollah opposed.

flawed , to palestine group
@flawed@kolektiva.social avatar

Need for self-defence know-how in public domain

I am sure some other anarchists might have already mentioned this (I dont know & cant remember), but towards the beginning of this genocide it occurred to me & I mentioned too.

The primary reason why Palestinians are oppressed (by extension everyone else who are oppressed across the world) is because they are systematically denied the tools of self-defence to free themselves of the oppression.

The reason why this genocide is going on now is because there is no deterrence for the oppressor (genocidal entity) for commiting the crimes its committing.

If Palestinians had weapons, this fascist entity would have never dared to commit the crimes it has been committing for nearly a century.

One thing is a given. Every oppressed population would want to fight back for their dignity incl Palestinians, but they are systematically denied the tools to defend themselves & one of the most important thing they need is weapons.

All "political solutions" without them having access to tools of self-defence will only be oppression with another name.

For those who dream of a society without oppression, without State, without Capital, without all other systems of domination (Fascism/Racism/Misogyny/Casteism/Religion/…), one of the most important thing is public dissemination of knowledge of weapon manufacturing.

Even in theory its impossible to emancipate without weapons when the enemy have them, this enemy not just some but have warehouses of them with an industrial pipeline filling its supply lines, while its oppressed have none.

The reason why State has "export controls", marks details as "classified"/"state secrets", makes its industries hide all of this under "know how", "trade secrets" (using the intellectual property scam), criminalises weapon manufacturing that it doesn't control is mainly because it wants its primary enemies (people it rules over) to not have any mechanism of self-defence to fight back.

This way it can oppress "peacefully" while in the best case all its victims are allowed to do is "protest" aka so called "freedom of speech", … i.e go & shout till you exhaust yourself & nothing more.

@palestine @israel

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@flawed @palestine @israel

You do realize that the leading ideological movements among Palestinians are Fatah (National) and Hamas (religious), and that currently Iran (religious, national) pumps them weapons so Palestinians fight a proxy war for Iran.

faab64 , to palestine group

Israeli Jewish-supremacist Minister of National Security, Itamar Ben-Gvir: "Every house in has a picture of Al-Aqsa Mosque. We must break into their holiest site."

Why isn't this monster sanctioned by the western leaders? How far does he need to go before they take action against this JewishLKK leader?

Can we treat this monster like holocaust deniers at least?or is it too much to ask?


@palestine @israel

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@faab64 @palestine @israel

> Why isn't this monster sanctioned by the western leaders?

Western leaders don't really talk with either Smotrich or Ben-Gvir.

(And yes, this is the guy who up until recently had a picture of Baruch Goldshtein in his living room).

faab64 , to palestine group

Right wing Israeli media now accuse of being 'antisemitic' for giving the the speech on a Saturday, the Shabbat (rest day) for Jews, because and his allies cannot respond to the speech for the next 24 hours

Hey, Americans, just shot up and send another $10B check to Israel plus 100s of cargo planes full of weapons.

@palestine @israel

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@faab64 @palestine @israel

What I see here is accusation that he is "coward". Well, this coalition keeps trying to force the Shabbat on all of Israelies and claim that it is a good thing (see deputy minister Makleb's words recently). Well, either do work at Shabbat or shut up. You can't force the whole world.

argumento , to israel group Spanish
@argumento@hispagatos.space avatar

Way before Hamas was a thing, back in the 70s or 60s, Israel, and western media for that matter, were already branding the Palestinians as "terrorists". Basically the west calls Palestinians "terrorists" whenever they fight back.

The PLO and Al Fatah were called terrorists, and they are secular nationalist movements. Anyone is called a terrorist but the terrorizing, apartheid Israeli regime.

@palestine @israel

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @palestine @israel

Kidnapping airplanes? Is that terrorism?

Mary625 , to israel group Dutch
@Mary625@mstdn.social avatar

@sean122 @ThinkIsrael @tzafrir @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @PeterLG @gee8sh @palestine @israel

Yeah, good response. Keep excusing genocide. Awesome position to have

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @ThinkIsrael @gee8sh @sentient_water @PeterLG @Mary625 @argumento @DropBear @palestine @hanscees @israel

That article in Al-Jazeera is filled with half-truths and exaggerations. Yes, Arabs are not always portrayed that well in some children's books. But there are concerted efforts to change that. Cherry-picking everything that might look wrong is a great way to feel good, but not very handy beyond that.

tzafrir ,
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@GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @PeterLG @gee8sh @palestine @israel

The funny thing is you (responders, not readers) seem to assume quite a few things about me. Oh well.

tzafrir ,
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@PeterLG @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @gee8sh @palestine @israel

It really depends on the terms of the ceasefire. My real concern is that no alternative will be established for the Hamas and we go back to the dynamics of a Hamas state in the Gaza Strip.

Right now it is only the actions of the US that push against that.

And this is why (among many other concerns) that I want to replace the Israeli government.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@PeterLG @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @gee8sh @palestine @israel

> You are eager to attend protests against your current government in favour of retrieving hostages from HAMAS

Most of those protests are now a mix of both.

tzafrir ,
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@argumento @PeterLG @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @gee8sh @palestine @israel

Gaza before Oct 2023 was a de-facto state. It had a government, a well-defined border, guarded by a military force, collected taxes, police force, etc. It did not have its own currency, but neither does e.g. France.

De-facto. Not internationally recognized. And being separate helped hampering the establishment of a single Palestinians state.

tzafrir ,
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@argumento @PeterLG @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @gee8sh @palestine @israel

In one sense it was never a state. The Hamas government never really assumed responsibility of the population. The population was Someone Else's Problem (mostly UNRWA). They spent the taxes they collected on themselves and on their military forces.

Indeed, if Palestinians were to follow that model, there would never be a Palestinian State.

tzafrir ,
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@argumento @PeterLG @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @gee8sh @palestine @israel

Netanyahu does not really want an end to the war. But then again, Hamas does not an end to the war either. And it is not keen on giving up its hostages either.

tzafrir ,
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@HeavenlyPossum @PeterLG @Mary625 @gee8sh @palestine @israel @sentient_water @DropBear @hanscees @argumento @ThinkIsrael @GregDance

Rafah Crossing has been in control of the Gaza government from 2008 to 2017. At that time it decided to cede control officially to the Ramallah government (but still maintain practical control).

The other side is under Egyptian control, naturally, because it it is a border crossing.

>>>

tzafrir ,
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@HeavenlyPossum @PeterLG @Mary625 @gee8sh @palestine @israel @sentient_water @DropBear @hanscees @argumento @ThinkIsrael @GregDance

The Erez and Kerem Shalom crossings with Israel have been under such triple control (Gaza, Ramallah, Israel) since 2007.

And of course the tunnels to the Egyptian Rafah were all under Hamas control (and paid taxes to Hamas).

So if you wanted to get in and out of the Strip, you had to get the approval of the Hamas government.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @PeterLG @Mary625 @gee8sh @palestine @israel @sentient_water @DropBear @hanscees @argumento @ThinkIsrael @GregDance

Well, Huthis occasionally bombarded Saudi Arabia. Does this mean it is not a state?

tzafrir ,
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@argumento @HeavenlyPossum @PeterLG @Mary625 @gee8sh @palestine @israel @sentient_water @DropBear @hanscees @ThinkIsrael @GregDance

The West Bank aside. I never claimed that the Ramallah Palestinian government rules a de-facto state. The West Bank is not the Gaza Strip.

tzafrir ,
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@HeavenlyPossum @argumento @gee8sh @ThinkIsrael @sentient_water @GregDance @PeterLG @israel @palestine @DropBear @hanscees @Mary625

Before Oct 2023, Israeli troops did not enter Gaza (except as part of the two previous wars, after long escalations, and even then: not that much) - 2008 and 2014. Only one of those was in Netanyahu's time.

tzafrir ,
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@rato @argumento @PeterLG @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @DropBear @sentient_water @gee8sh @palestine @israel

No monopoly over violence? If you said anything bad against Hamas, you would be taken to an interrogation and likely your knees would not survive the ordeal. There's a reason there's not much criticism on the Hamas from within the Strip.

tzafrir ,
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@HeavenlyPossum @Mary625 @palestine @israel @argumento @gee8sh @sentient_water @GregDance @PeterLG @hanscees @DropBear @ThinkIsrael

Gazans could leave Gaza if the Egyptians allowed it (or if they paid someone on the Egyptian side. In addition to paying someone on the Gazan side, because they are very honest).

>>>

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @Mary625 @palestine @israel @argumento @gee8sh @sentient_water @GregDance @PeterLG @hanscees @DropBear @ThinkIsrael

Generally for one to cross from Gaza to Israel (through Erez) one would need clearance from Hamas, Ramallah government and Israel. And that one would be automatically suspected by both Israel and Hamas as spying for the other side (which was occasionally the case).

This is a border between two bitter enemies. Not fun to cross. Kind of Check Point Charlie.

tzafrir ,
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@HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @ThinkIsrael @Mary625 @hanscees @palestine @DropBear @argumento @sentient_water @gee8sh @PeterLG @israel

The thing is, people only complain about Israel, and never about the Egypt.

Egypt did allow certain number Gazans to cross the border. The government of Egypt doesn't really like the Hamas government very much.

tzafrir ,
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@HeavenlyPossum @PeterLG @israel @DropBear @gee8sh @argumento @sentient_water @GregDance @hanscees @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @palestine

Is India a state? Even though the Chinese military forces invaded there in the 1960s? (a small bit near the border, you know).

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar
tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar
tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @HeavenlyPossum @israel @GregDance @DropBear @sentient_water @Mary625 @PeterLG @palestine @ThinkIsrael @gee8sh @hanscees

I would have explaining. However someone who calls me such names is not listening so I won't bother.

tzafrir ,
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@HeavenlyPossum @ThinkIsrael @gee8sh @sentient_water @GregDance @PeterLG @israel @hanscees @DropBear @argumento @palestine @Mary625

Why is that a condition? If you want to go from country A to country B, you need country B's permission. There are many cases where this permission is granted semi-automatically, and thus you tend to ignore it.

When country A and country B don't like each other, it's a problem. Try to see what it take for Indians to visit Pakistan and vice versa.

tzafrir ,
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@HeavenlyPossum @ThinkIsrael @PeterLG @hanscees @GregDance @Mary625 @sentient_water @israel @argumento @palestine @gee8sh @DropBear

(Past tense. Pre Oct 2023)
They could travel by land though Egypt. Some of them. Why not more? Because of their government that failed to negotiate it.

tzafrir ,
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@HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @Mary625 @sentient_water @PeterLG @palestine @DropBear @argumento @israel @ThinkIsrael @hanscees @gee8sh

It seems that quite a few countries don't like the Hamas government.

tzafrir ,
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@HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @israel @hanscees @gee8sh @palestine @PeterLG @argumento @sentient_water @DropBear

Well, That's indeed Netanyahu's policy (unlike Olmert, the PM in 2006-2008 that was against Hamas and was working on a peace agreement with Abu Mazen).

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @israel @DropBear @PeterLG @Mary625 @argumento @sentient_water @gee8sh @hanscees @GregDance @ThinkIsrael @palestine

Why do you think "Egypt helps Israel"? Egypt is an independent country with its own interests that only partially align with those of Israel. It kept the border closed because it is its own interest.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@skippy442 @HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @israel @hanscees @gee8sh @palestine @PeterLG @sentient_water @DropBear

That's a misconception. Israel somewhat supported islamists in the Gaza Strip in the 1980s because they seemed harmles and to counter the PLO. However, that was before the Intifada started, and hence before Hamas was created.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @sentient_water @palestine @DropBear @gee8sh @ThinkIsrael @PeterLG @hanscees @israel @argumento @Mary625

No. My point is that the fix for that is a single Palestian government with Hamas out of the way.

tzafrir ,
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@argumento @skippy442 @HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @israel @hanscees @gee8sh @palestine @PeterLG @sentient_water @DropBear

In retrospect, no. Recall that up until the mid 1980s, the Fatah was an active terrorist organization. Other secular organizations (e.g. the Popular Front) never gave up terrorism.

But Israel did negotiate the Oslo Accords less than a decade later with the PLO.

tzafrir ,
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@argumento @skippy442 @HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @israel @hanscees @gee8sh @palestine @PeterLG @sentient_water @DropBear

Sure, so planed hijacked by Black September Organization (a front for Fatah) were acts of freedom? Passengers were freed by the freedom fighters from the air crew?

Leila Khaled, seen in this picture, is one of those freedom fighters. She was part of one successful and one failed such hijack.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @sentient_water @palestine @DropBear @gee8sh @ThinkIsrael @PeterLG @hanscees @israel @Mary625

I'm not sure I understand the question. There are very few people in Israeli prisons since before 1990 ("before Hamas was a thing").

Israel was close to reach an agreement with the gevernment of the Palestinian Authority in 2008. But then Netanyahu came. Now both sides are more in blame-game mode.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@ThinkIsrael @skippy442 @HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @Mary625 @israel @hanscees @gee8sh @palestine @PeterLG @sentient_water @DropBear

The Oslo Accords were designed as a temporary agreement for five years. A final agreement was to be signed by 1999.

There's a general agreement among both Israeli and Palestinians whose fault it was that such an agreement was not signed (the other party).

tzafrir ,
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@HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @gee8sh @palestine @hanscees @israel @PeterLG @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @sentient_water @DropBear

The siege on Gaza began in 2007 after Hamas took over. Not in 2005.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar
tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar
tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @gee8sh @palestine @PeterLG @sentient_water @israel @GregDance @hanscees @Mary625 @ThinkIsrael @skippy442 @DropBear

That article is not accessible. But I stand with what I wrote before: they confunuse pre-Hamas Islamists with Hamas.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@HeavenlyPossum @GregDance @gee8sh @palestine @ThinkIsrael @israel @Mary625 @sentient_water @hanscees @PeterLG @DropBear

So much so that Olmert contiued the process in the West Bank in 2006. But momentum was lost due to the war in Lebanon in which Olmeft lost much popularity.

tzafrir ,
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@Alexandrad1 @HeavenlyPossum @ThinkIsrael @GregDance @PeterLG @israel @hanscees @DropBear @argumento @palestine @Mary625

  1. Israel has internationally-recognized borders with Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon (though not with Syria).

Before Oct-7, the border between Israel and the Gaza Strip was well-defined and part of basically any draft of agreement between Israel and various Palestinian parties (but none of those was finalized).

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@faab64 @argumento @GregDance @HeavenlyPossum @Alexandrad1 @palestine @israel @DropBear @Mary625 @hanscees @PeterLG @ThinkIsrael

I wrote "internationally-recognized".

Israel has its version of its border with Syria. It is not internationally recognized (with very few exceptions).

Lebanon (or mostly: the Autonomous state of Hezbolla) does not accept the internationally-recognized border with Israel.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @faab64 @GregDance @HeavenlyPossum @Alexandrad1 @palestine @israel @DropBear @Mary625 @hanscees @PeterLG

Because? Are you sure? The border between Israel and Lebanon wasn't really internationally recognized even before 1967, despite being based on a well-defined previous international border.

Syria claims lands that were part of Palestine, because it annexed them by force in 1948.

tzafrir ,
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@argumento @HeavenlyPossum @PeterLG @Alexandrad1 @GregDance @faab64 @israel @palestine @Mary625 @hanscees @DropBear

There was really no Arab state forming. It was thwarted by Jordan, Egypt and Syria invading and claiming the land to themselves.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @faab64 @GregDance @HeavenlyPossum @Alexandrad1 @palestine @israel @DropBear @Mary625 @hanscees @PeterLG

As for Sinai:

Israel left Sinai ("To the last grain of sand") in the peace treaty with Egypt. And this treaty was signed by the right winger Begin.

Dayan indeed said in 1971(?) that Sharm El Sheikh with no peace is better than peace with no Sharm El Sheikh. But 7 years later he was one of the negotiators in Camp David.

tzafrir ,
@tzafrir@tooot.im avatar

@argumento @faab64 @GregDance @HeavenlyPossum @Alexandrad1 @palestine @israel @DropBear @Mary625 @hanscees @PeterLG

At the time the Camp David agreement was signed, and up until 2005, Israeli forces were holding the Philadelphi corridor. So I can't see how this specifically is a violation of the Camp David agreements.

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