Diminished Hamas switches to full insurgent mode in Gaza ( www.reuters.com )

  • Hamas fighting force reduced by half - US officials
    • Group relying on ambushes, improvised bombs, they say
    • Such tactics could sustain a lengthy insurgency
    • 'There is no quick fix,' says Israeli military

WASHINGTON, June 6 (Reuters) - Hamas has seen about half its forces wiped out in eight months of war and is relying on hit-and-run insurgent tactics to frustrate Israel's attempts to take control of Gaza, U.S. and Israeli officials told Reuters.
The enclave's ruling group has been reduced to between 9,000 and 12,000 fighters, according to three senior U.S. officials familiar with battlefield developments, down from American estimates
, opens new tab of 20,000-25,000 before the conflict. By contrast, Israel says it has lost almost 300 troops in the Gaza campaign.
Hamas fighters are now largely avoiding sustained skirmishes with Israeli forces closing in on the southernmost city of Rafah, instead relying on ambushes and improvised bombs to hit targets often behind enemy lines, one of the officials said.

gravitas_deficiency ,

It’s like the Israelis watched us do both Iraq round 2 and Afghanistan, and instead of seeing it as a cautionary tale, they were like “hmmm yes this is excellent”

goferking0 ,

All they learned was they have to eliminate or displace everyone then take it over rather than it's a dumb idea

gravitas_deficiency ,

Don’t have to win any hearts and minds if there aren’t any hearts or minds left taps forehead

andrewrgross ,
@andrewrgross@slrpnk.net avatar

To add to this: Netanyahu has been on trial for corruption for years, and he's been using the war as an excuse to avoid holding elections, which he would lose.

When the war ends, Bibi is going to jail. And would you look at that? He's in a permanent war! What are the odds.

disguy_ovahea ,

It’s that exact reason that the US right wing continues to liken Oct. 7 to 9/11. They believe that disproportionate retaliation is somehow justice.

If Trump wins in November, you can be sure Israel will bomb and pave every last bit of Palestinian territory.

gravitas_deficiency ,

If Trump wins in November, you can be sure that Trump will send squadrons of B-52s to carpet bomb Gaza and the West Bank into dust and call it “assisting Israel with their territorial security”.

_sideffect ,

Good, keep thinning those numbers out.
Close to zero is the goal.

DScratch ,

You talking about civilians?

Lost_My_Mind ,

I read it as thinning out hamas fighting force. You know.....like the story is about.

Scubus ,

Insert guy holding a butterfly "Is this hamas?" meme

_sideffect ,

Exactly, fuck Hamas

capital ,

Title says Hamas.

DScratch ,

Actions up to this point say “any Muslim”

capital ,

Evacuating civilians, calling phones and dropping leaflets to get civilians further from harm is a strange way to do that but ok.

_sideffect ,

People either have a hate boner for me or support Hamas, in both cases, you need help 😂

SkyezOpen ,

Depends if your definition of "hamas" includes Palestinian civilians, which I suspect it might.

_sideffect ,

Of course not, civilians are stuck in the middle because of Hamas.

SkyezOpen ,

Right. And Israel has the right to actually defend itself. Where the issue happens is that indiscriminate bombing in densely populated areas does not constitute "self defense." Nor does sniping journalists, dropping precision munitions on aid convoys, dropping thousand pound bombs on refugee camps, using white phosphorus anywhere near a city, collective punishment such as cutting access to aid and water for millions of people (actual war crime by the way), or literally anything that's occurred in the west bank.

So when people say they support Palestine, that's what they mean. Not hamas. Don't be disingenuous.

_sideffect ,

Not all people, don't be naive.
Many want the Jews to disappear and don't give two F's what happens to them.

Remember when people chant "from the river to the sea" , what it actually means.

Keeponstalin ,

The slogan From the River to the Sea is about Palestinian liberation that started in the 60s by the PLO for a democratic secular state, not Genocide. The Syrian leader Hafez al-Assad in 1966 maybe, but he's not Palestinian.

_sideffect ,

Maybe that's where it originated, but it's not why they chant it now.

They want Jews gone from that area, one way or another.

SkyezOpen ,

They've explained themselves so many times and yet you still somehow know better than them what they're protesting for. Amazing.

Would you call me antisemitic for saying Israel's leadership is genocidal?

_sideffect ,

Please. Most protestors don't know anything in the USA/Canada and are brainwashed students.

Look, Israel is in a war. Civilians get killed unfortunately.
Some soldiers are acting out of line and doing what they want based on hatred, and they should be held accountable.

Is Bibi also targeting civilians? Yes and no, it's hard to say directly.

Don't believe everything either side tells you.

Keeponstalin ,

Do you want to discuss the over 500 incitements of genocide? When it comes to intent, Israel's intent has been documented more than most

Since the commencement of our investigative efforts on October 7th, 2023, Law for Palestine has meticulously amassed a compelling body of evidence exposing the proliferation of incitement to violence and genocidal intent perpetrated by Israeli officials and public figures, against Palestinians. Our documentation encompasses over 500 incitements of violence and genocidal incitement, appearing in the forms of social media posts, television interviews, and official statements from Israeli politicians, army personnel, journalists, and other influential personalities.

https://law4palestine.org/law-for-palestine-releases-database-with-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-continuously-updated/

_sideffect ,

Hamas' intent is to "kill all Jews". It's in their charter, documented

Keeponstalin ,

Except, it's not. Look for yourself

Hamas 1988 Charter and Revised 2017 Charter

The 1988 Charter, which is certainly unreasonable in its fundamentalism with Sharia Law and is antisemitic, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People. Hamas wants an end to Israel as an Apartheid State, not an extermination of all Israelis. Under Ahmed Yassin in the 1990's, truces were offered in exchange for Israeli to withdrawal from Gaza and the West Bank to the 1967 borders. The 2017 Revised charter explicitly accepts a Two-State Solution of the 1967 Borders. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised charter.

_sideffect ,

Lol dude, come on, don't be naive.

They changed Jews to Zionists only because of the heat they were getting from others.

Their intent remains the same.
They don't differentiate between the two, because if they did, October 7th would have never happened.

Keeponstalin ,

You're right, their intent is the same, an end to the systemic supremacy and human rights abuses of living under an Apartheid Regime. Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.

Israel is the one that intentionally conflates the two in order to deflect from criticizm. When Israel commits war crimes, or human rights abuses, or land grabbing, they are the ones that claim they do so for all Jewish people. When Zionist actions are criticized, they call it antisemitic. The conflation of the two is genuinely antisemitic, as the actions of Israel in no way represent all Jewish people.

If you don't want to be naive, I suggest you read the reports by human rights organizations.

Year before Oct 7 - Jewish Voice for Peace

2023 is 'deadliest year' for Palestinian children say human rights groups (Oct 6th)

HRW Events of 2022 and HRW Events of 2023

Reports about how Israel is an Apartheid State:

Amnesty International Report

Human Rights Watch Report

B'TSelem Report with quick Explainer

_sideffect ,

Saying Hamas is right in using suicide bombers and murders is beyond apprehensive.

And enough with the land grabbing bs.
Every two state solution Israel has offered they turn down.
Israel is always the first one at the peace table.

Keeponstalin ,

It's not right, but neither is the apartheid. There is no right way to fight against an Apartheid or Occupation. If you don't understand the land grabbing, you don't understand the conflict.

Before 1948, Palestinian Leadership repeatedly advocated for a Unitary Binational State for decades: Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928, Arab Higher Committee advocating for Unified State 1937, Arab League advocating for Unified State 1948

After the founding of Israel, the Two-State Solutions were utilized to further annex the Palestinian Occupied Territories and enact military control over Palestinians while denying them human and civil rights. This is apartheid. Despite this, both Fatah and Hamas have accepted a Two-State Solution on the 1967 borders, with the two most important factors being the Right of Return of Palestinian refugees and an end to the permanent occupation.

Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ

History of peace process - The Intercept

The settlements represent land-grabbing, and land-grabbing and peace-making don’t go together, it is one or the other. By its actions, if not always in its rhetoric, Israel has opted for land-grabbing and as we speak Israel is expanding settlements. So, Israel has been systematically destroying the basis for a viable Palestinian state and this is the declared objective of the Likud and Netanyahu who used to pretend to accept a two-state solution. In the lead up to the last election, he said there will be no Palestinian state on his watch. The expansion of settlements and the wall mean that there cannot be a viable Palestinian state with territorial contiguity. The most that the Palestinians can hope for is Bantustans, a series of enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military bases.

  • Avi Shlaim

How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

secretlyaddictedtolinux ,

I like reading your posts because you are highly intelligent and include sources in them.

However, I am not sure if these documents mean that they wouldn't destroy Israel if they could. If all the Jewish adults and children of Israel were on an Island and each Hamas leader had a button that would destroy the island and everyone on it if pressed, I think all the Hamas leaders would probably press their buttons.

I am also still scared of Sharia law because I am part of the LGBT community and that makes me scared of Muslims because sometimes when they get a majority, Sharia law ensues. I am scared enough that I can't have rational views on this topic.

In all honesty, you are one of the smartest and most knowledgeable people posting on here. Have you ever thought of creating a post just putting forward what you personally think should happen in this situation, with specific ideas for the various government leaders to follow, like an actual specific plan for multiple countries to follow that would be politically feasible? And possibly address concerns that people could have and just reply to them in advance so it would be politically feasible?

Perhaps other people have done this, I don't know. I'm still too biased to feel like I can have an accurate opinion on this. I know your posts have been more critical that offering suggestions, but I think you are so smart you could actually craft a suggestion on how to solve this whole mess in a politically feasible way that would perhaps appeal to people, laying out specific solutions, time-tables, etc, keeping in mind political feasibility (and addressing concerns of LGBT people and women if you want).

You seem so smart. Are you a journalist or have a doctorate? I can sense your intelligence is formidable. I am not joking when I am saying that, you seem brilliant to me in the little I've read, which doesn't mean I agree with your positions. A hard part of change is not just convincing people but also political feasibility. I am still very scared of a Muslim or more Muslim word. I don't honestly think as a LGBT person my rights will be preserved if Muslims become a larger percent of the population. It shouldn't affect discussions like this, people should have rights no matter what, but it's hard to sympathize with a group of people who would potentially drop me off a building.

Keeponstalin ,

I am an advocate for a Bi-National One-State Solution, where Palestinians and Israelis have equal rights, including right of return. Where Historic Palestine can be a safe haven for all Jewish, Christian, and Islamic people from persecution. A Two-State Solution is no longer viable due to the land grabbing of Israel, that has divided the West Bank into hundreds of isolated enclaves surrounded by military checkpoints and violent settlers.

I do not think Hamas nor Fatah should govern the Palestinian people, both are corrupt for different reasons. However I don't think any meaningful change in governance can happen until an end to the Apartheid/Occupation, for the same reason of how Fatah and Hamas are corrupt. A free and fair election cannot happen under an Apartheid State.

Your fear is understandable, however I think it is misplaced. Anti-LGBT+ is shared between all conservative reactionary governments, regardless of religion. American conservatives are just as anti-LGBT+ as any middle eastern conservatives for the most part. Neither Muslims or Arabs are monolithic, there are still advocates for LGBT+ rights in middle eastern countries. In Palestine, for example, there is ASWAT and JOH. Israel is a little better for LGBT, however there has been some pinkwashing.

Right now, no Palestinians in the Occupied Territories have rights, neither basic human rights nor civil rights. I'm an advocate for all people to have those kinds of rights, regardless of whether they agree with all my views or not. So, even if the majority of Palestinians are anti-LGBT, I will still advocate for them to have those rights. I will also advocate for LGBT+ rights within Palestine.

I do have a Bachelor's in STEM, however I'm not a historian. A year ago I had no idea about the situation in Palestine/Israel, nor the history. The best resource I've found by far for extensive research on the history and on-the-ground investigations are New Historians and Human Rights Organizations respectively. Here's a list of the ones I recommend.

List of Books by New Historians:

If you don't have access to a library or want to view these for free first, they can all be found on the Library Genesis. I believe a few are on audible too

The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha

A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe

The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe

The Hundred Years' War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi

The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim

The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy

New Historian Aricles on One vs. Two State Solution:

How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

secretlyaddictedtolinux ,

I don't think conservative Christians want to throw gay people off roofs, so although both hate gay people, I don't think they are equivalent

You stated your position, but I have no idea if it's politically viable

I am asking if there a path to have people stop fighting that is politically feasible, not just something that is right according to various beliefs.

I don't really see a plan here on how to change things, just a position. Is your position politically feasible? Would anyone agree to it?

I have a hard time reading books because get bored with facts and reading stuff that's long and don't like history. I am sure that Palestinian civilians are enduring horrors I can't totally fathom. I have read enough at this point to know how bad it has been for many civilians there. I believe you are very knowledgeable and you keep supporting your positions with data so you've gained enough credibility with me that I take a lot of what you are saying as having a historical basis.

Keeponstalin , (edited )

Not sure where you're getting the idea that Christian conservatives don't want LGBT people dead, because that's not the reality.

How the rise of anti-LGBTQ+ hate and violence is impacting the community

Christian Right

Similar to Apartheid South Africa, internal and external pressure is necessary. But unlike Apartheid South Africa, Israel is committing Genocide. So significantly more external pressure and hopefully intervention will be necessary to stop the genocide and begin the process of emancipation.

Despite the British and American governments classifying the ANC as a terrorist organisation during the 1980s, the growing international criticism of Apartheid, spurred by disruptive resistance in South Africa, and the undermining of the anti-Communist imperative due to the end of the Cold War, also moved those states to finally implement trade sanctions against Apartheid.

World politics explainer: the end of Apartheid

Again, there are audiobooks available (free with an audible membership too) if you don't want to physically read. I believe you can find some on Spotify too.

secretlyaddictedtolinux ,

so, i do think christians hate gay people, i guess i just don't see them doing the whole throwing gays off the rooftops. even if it's just the "availability heuristic" affecting my views and not based on the number of gays thrown off roofs, i just have only seen Muslims do that

I believe a lot of what you are saying at this point, that it probably technically is genocide

even if i believe you, i lack political power to do anything

i am barely getting by in this world at times

i don't know if i think land should be owned by certain governments or people, i really think people should be able to go anywhere and live there if they want to. the problem is people have different cultural views and these views aren't compatible. like conservative iraqi people probably wouldn't want a large number of liberal gays moving there and demanding change just like liberal cities in the US wouldn't want a bunch of conservative muslims moving to the area and demanding change. muslim countries sometimes treat women terribly. the countries in which women can't learn math are mostly muslim. right now there are females who are intelligent enough to be computer scientists or mathematicians who are wearing burkas they can't remove in public and who aren't allowed to read math books and are literally slaves due to an absence of rights. i can't imagine the horror of being an intelligent woman in that situation. people of different cultures sometimes have different birth rates too so in democratic societies if people with conservative or misogynistic values and higher birth rates move to the area, there's a risk that eventually women won't be able to learn math and gays won't be able to marry or even live without fear of state execution for their orientation if the population changes and it results in cultural shifts.

in many ways, this is completely irrelevant because even if i am scared of conservative muslim culture, it doesn't make genocide okay. i am not sure if Palestinians are even that conservative, they probably aren't. i just don't know if believe that muslim culture will gradually become more tolerant. i tend to believe that once muslims become a majority, they tend to become more openly conservative and there's a higher risk of them demanding sharia law and successfully getting it passed. if sharia law passes, i die, that's what it means for me, so i am fearful of muslim cultural spreading as a result. i also don't see that many liberal muslims being tolerant of gays. instead, i recall that when canada had a lot of muslim refugees, many muslims were are a large part of a conservative coalition that did not want certain LGBT rights.

i really believe in freedom of religion, and i am anti-genocide, but what is the resolution? when cultures are so different, you have to have different political systems in different areas.

certain land being randomly apportioned to certain cultural and religious beliefs seems so arbitrary to me already

i am not sure audiobooks would help. i find history sort of boring. i believe you that brutality is taking place and it's wrong.

much in the same way i can do nothing with the ukraine and russia situation, i don't think there's anything i can do in this situation either

even if you are right and the two state solution should happen, why hasn't it happened already? if it hasn't happened, it must be difficult politically.

I am very ignorant in many ways. The most I know about Palestinian culture is from Bella Hadid. She takes beautiful photos and I think she seems really cool. She's part Palestinian and seems really nice from the little I know of her. The only other thing I know about Palestinians is they had really hard lives even prior to this and had really restricted movements and limited options. I heard someone say it was like an open air prison. I think that sometimes people in power create cruel situations and then when people rebel after being treated horribly, they use acts of rebellion as evidence that harsher treatment is necessary, and it's not taking into account a broader view of problems and using power to ignore the entirety of a situation. I don't think that the attacks that happened on October 7th happened in a vacuum, but I still don't know how bad the situation in Palestine was before things got worse.

You have a stem background right?

I have a random idea. It is probably a stupid idea. What about having some sort of sign up to get small groups of Palestinians and Israeli people and other International Citizens all sharing perspectives in small groups? Like meetings for cultural understanding?

Perhaps if there were little groups of 4 to 8 people discussing their views and experiences, including experiences of loss and tragedy, without political views of what should happened, but just like to create dialogue about what experiences are like, perhaps there would be more understanding of the frustrations both sides feel. Every group would have to have at least 1 palestinian and 1 jewish person and it would be just be sharing different emotional experiences. I doubt people would be interested. If you have a stem background in computers you could possibly set up some sort of website to do that? I am not a great programmer. Or perhaps another programmer would help? I like the idea but wouldn't know where to begin. It may be a stupid idea, I don't know. It would probably difficult due to languages barriers, but perhaps AI could somehow translate everything in real time so people could understand each other. Perhaps if more people talked to each other, there would be more willingness to have options that both groups would like.

You just seem so smart and seem to care about this a lot. I hope you end up finding a way to have even more of an impact. I can sense your intelligence. You're very smart. What sort of STEM did you study?

I don't think my islamophobia means that what is happening to civilians is somehow okay. i'm just mentioning my fears as someone within the LGBT community and how it makes me fearful. i am biased in my perspective and i think it's better for me to acknowledge my bias than pretend it's not there. i am also scared of christianity too.

Perhaps if small groups of people could somehow talk and have conversations, then people would have a better understanding.

Why is the 2 state solution rejected or hasn't happened so far?

Did you lose anyone in this conflict?

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