karabaic

18+ karabaic , 28 days ago to bookstodon group

This will be a long thread about what may be an anachronism in War & Peace.

CW: self-harm, suicide

We read:

Natásha was very ill, having, as Márya Dmítrievna told him in secret, poisoned herself the night after she had been told that Anatole was married, with some arsenic she had stealthily procured. After swallowing a little she had been so frightened that she woke Sónya and told her what she had done. /1

@bookstodon

18+ karabaic OP , 28 days ago

....The necessary antidotes had been administered in time and she was now out of danger, though still so weak that it was out of the question to move her to the country, and so the countess had been sent for. (Maud translation)

I became curious about this because arsenic is a very serious poison, but, having read books like the Aubrey/Maturin series, I know that there wasn't much known about it and its action at the time. /2

18+ karabaic OP , 28 days ago

And I don't think there was an antidote widely known at this point in the novel's timeline, 1811. If any of you could assist me in determining what Sonya might have administered as an antidote, I'd be grateful.

Arsenic was widely available as rat poison after the mass production of arsenic oxides as a byproduct of smelting in the late 1700's. Through Google Scholar, I've found one reference to recommended "treatments" in 1806: /3

18+ karabaic OP , 28 days ago

"Coxe (1806) discussed applying milk, white eggs, water and opium in treating arsenic poisoned cases"[1][2] (footnotes at end of thread)

I've also found the book Poisoned Lives[3] which indicates that the reaction to arsenic varies depending on whether it was diluted with water. If the arsenic was ingested in large grains, it's likely much of it would pass through the digestive system unabsorbed. /4

18+ karabaic OP , 28 days ago

So, there's a chance that Natasha recovered despite any "antidotes" administered!

But there was no "antidote" known until Bunsen discovered iron oxide hydrate would act as a kind of chelating agent in 1833.[4]

Arsenic was front of mind around the time Tolstoy came of age and was writing W&P. Marsh had invented his method of detecting arsenic in the body in 1841[5]. The English Parliament passed the Arsenic Act in 1851 and ... /5

18+ karabaic OP , 28 days ago

...both Flaubert's Madam Bovary (1856) and Nicolai Leskov's Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District (1865) featured arsenic.

My thinking at this point is that Tolstoy didn't know the science or the history of arsenic and just cribbed something that was in the air, mistakenly thinking there was an antidote in 1811. But I'd like more certainty.

Footnotes follow... /6

18+ karabaic OP , 28 days ago

[1] Afshari R. The Chronicle of Arsenic Poisoning in the 19th Century. Asia Pac J Med Toxicol 2016;5:36-41.

[2] Redman Coxe J. On the mode of detecting Arsenic in those poisoned thereby &c. &c: 'Remedies to save, if possible the life of a person who has taken Arsenic. Balck's Element of Chemistry. Phila Med Museum 1806;2:347.

/7

18+ karabaic OP , 28 days ago

[3] Watson, Katherine. Poisoned Lives: English Poisoners and Their Victims. United Kingdom, Bloomsbury Academic, 2006. Pages 6-7 are relevant, but Google Books doesn't provide access to page 7.

4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bunsen

[5] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(13)61472-5/fulltext

/FIN

18+ karabaic OP , 17 days ago

If you were following this longish thread on a possible anachronism in War and Peace a couple weeks back, I wrote my final findings up. Spoilers for Book 5, Part 5, Chapter 21. Discussion of suicide & poisoning. 📚💙 @bookstodon

Natasha, The Dragon, and the Great Anachronism of 1811
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Xagze-xWWNb9_9Jh3x-Up7PnBqkSbjmtTaY0ozWhqM/edit