Why is Matrix mentioned more often than XMPP in self hosted forums?

I'm looking into hosting one of these for the first time. From my limited research, XMPP seems to win in every way, which makes me think I must be missing something. Matrix is almost always mentioned as the de-facto standard, but I rarely saw arguments why it is better than XMPP?

Xmpp seems way easier to host, requiring less resources, has many more options for clients, and is simpler and thus easier to manage and reason about when something goes wrong.

So what's the deal?

Samsy ,

Show me a docker compose file which I can simply start and don't have to mess around more than deploy it, and I will discuss xmpp more often.

cyclohexane OP ,

Here is a docker compose:
https://snikket.org/service/resources/docker-compose.yml

You only two configuration options in the config file: domain and email.

onlinepersona ,

Matrix clients are simple, easy, and nice to look at. The matrix server might need more resources, but it comes with everything out of the box. There's no need to fiddle with extensions and their weird naming, and hope that the other server/client also supports the extension. Also, are there bridges to other protocols?

I remember trying to get encryption working on Pidgin and it was all around a bad experience.

XMPP might be as powerful or more powerful than matrix, but nothing about it screams modern. It's like IRC for Gen X'ers.

Anti Commercial-AI license

fine_sandy_bottom ,

The anti AI license is so lame.

boblemmy ,

I'm trying out another extremely lightweight nostr relay

smileyhead ,

May be lightweight, but why there has to be one?

boblemmy ,

In order to ensure that my account's historical data is backed up, I am worried that other relay servers will disappear or fail

Lemongrab ,

If the goal is to make a similar experience to discord, we should make a desktop/android client which changes the way the info is shown. I boil down discords main features this: 1-to-1 call/text, modern messenger features (emojis, text, audio, video, link embeds), servers with the option for channels and always on voice chats, group chats (weird overlap with servers). Always on voice chats should be as simple as disabling notifying or dialing members. Is it not just that simple to get a heavily reduced version of discord? Maybe noisetorch for noise cancelation.

BrikoX ,
@BrikoX@lemmy.zip avatar

Google killed XMPP momentum. And while Matrix has many issues it needs to figure out, especially the development being almost exclusively supported by a for-profit company, they seem to slowly (very slowly) work towards more independence.

Matrix did some things right. Going with JSON spec instead of XML, having Element as uniform cross-platform client, offering bridges as a way to stay connected with your family and friends without needing to convince them to move (XMPP offers transports, but they function entirely differently) and offering end-to-end encryption by default.

XMPP in true open source fashion doesn't have any uniformity from user perspective. Different ways to do the same thing on different clients, different clients on different platforms. That is a benefit for a savvy tech nerd, but it's a huge inconvenience for a non-techie family member or friend.

cyclohexane OP ,

Why is JSON better than XML? It's more modern, sure, but from technical perspective it is not objectively better right? Not something worth switching protocols for.

You mention XMPP has transports as opposed to Matrix bridges. I thought they give you roughly the same outcome. What's the difference?

samus7070 ,

The only things JSON has over xml is that it’s easier to write a parser for it and the format is less verbose and less complicated. There are extensions to JSON that can add features that xml has and the JSON spec doesn’t have. Overall the xml spec is bigger and has more features but that also makes it overkill for many of the cases that it would be used in.

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