The Netherlands generates way more solar power than Canada. Here's how they do it - Global investment in solar power now tops all other energy generation technologies combined, says IEA ( www.cbc.ca )

While Canada lags behind in solar adoption, many places including Germany, China, Japan and even the United States are moving quickly.

In fact, on certain days, some places are generating so much energy, the price to purchase it is dropping below zero, prompting concerns about storage capacity for the abundant power source.

theacharnian ,

I haven't read the article but.... :)

Generally the big problem we still have to solve with reviewables is storage.

I think that one advantage that the NL has with renewables is that they don't have the storage problem, because they can always reroute to more pumping water out the polders.

sushimi , (edited )

Actually,

  • energy grid in NL is becoming unstable because of solar energy :/ (e.g. by houses supplying it onto the network)
  • and our cable network is not capable of handling the EV cars recharge requirements.
  • and houses to be built not able to get an electric connection, because of electrical infrastructure capacity-problems.

So, don't bet on solar too soon

theacharnian ,

Sounds like kinks to be ironed out rather than insurmountable problems tbh.

sushimi ,

True. but the govt is screwing over the people by creating these problems. This is not the only thing consistenly going the wrong way.

To me, it's like most people in Govt have no clue that the U.N.'s S.D.G.'s are a recipy for trouble.

theacharnian ,

Why do you say that the UN Sustainable Development Goals are a recipe for trouble?

sushimi , (edited )

Because they're a non-democratic party, and they've cooked up a big plan which is being rolled out in all connected countries.

in NL, the government has committed already in 2015
https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/ontwikkelingssamenwerking/internationale-afspraken-ontwikkelingssamenwerking
While there's no money in SDG's there's an enormous drive to make it progress.. Wonder who is paying for all that. Here are some websites showing Dutch government initiatives;

The SDG plans seem benevolent, but the problem i have with it; while the outcome sounds nice, it doesn't say 'how' they want to arrive there.

i've seen the Arup/c40 publication regarding going for 'sustainability'. e.g. it calls a target of 0 Kg meat, and 0 Kg dairy per person per year, an Ambitious target for 2030?!
Here you can download their PDF https://www.arup.com/perspectives/publications/research/section/the-future-of-urban-consumption-in-a-1-5c-world

I think it's an interesting read for realizing how extreme groups are willing to think, and not even being ashamed for it, or being called out on it

nik282000 ,
@nik282000@lemmy.ca avatar

Actually, lack of capacity is pro-petro propaganda. In Ontario demand and generation can literally double in a week and still be within the normal range. Using smart charging (not Smart^TM^) it would be easy to recharge commuter vehicles overnight in such a way that the baseload is increased making the grid MORE stable, not less.

sushimi , (edited )

in NL, the sun rarely shines and especially doesn't during the night. and since there's no proper way to store huge amounts of electrical power during the day,

  • charging overnight isn't an option
  • we're left to feeding the exess power onto the grid
joshhsoj1902 ,

Solar in some cases can actually address the [over exaggerated] concerns regarding EV charging. By bringing power generation closer to where the power is being used, there can be less load on the long distance transmission lines. In some cases it can also reduce the load on local transformers.

But all of that is mostly irrelevant, the transition to EVs will happen over the next 30 years. Even if we weren't looking to move to EVs if we ignored the current grid we would be in trouble. But like anything we'll upgrade parts slowly as needed.

sushimi ,

i agree. as long as industry makes money the train keeps moving. But Toyota doesn't bet on EVs. Sparks my interest.

Regarding concens. i wonder when the "green train" wakes up to the mounting recycling problem of

  • lithium EV batteries,
  • windturbine blades
  • solar panels
joshhsoj1902 ,

All of those things are recyclable today with wind turbines being the hardest and batteries being the easiest. But the quantity of materials that needs recycling is still low so there are only a handful of companies doing it.

ipkpjersi , (edited )

They also have a lower cost of living, legalized sex work, lower crime rates including lower car theft rates and lower violent crime rates, and way better public transportation.

sushimi ,

but.. our government

  • didn't/doesn't address housing shortage.
  • didn't/doesn't address inflation.
  • increases taxation as a means to get more income flow to the government
  • spends crazy(milions and bilions) on S.D.G ideals
  • makes it impossible for farmers to meet (Co2 etc)regulations
    • and government buys them out..
    • and Schiphol etc buying that land for extra CO2 credit.
  • has crazy 'sustainability' demains, which makes international production business move elsewhere
  • increasing poverty. People requiring food-bank support is increasing, but because of increasingly harsh business environment the food-bank actually obtains less from industrie.
  • many small/medium businesses are going bust because they can't repay the corona-loan. (which many have warned is a slow death trap)
joshhsoj1902 ,

What a load of nonsense.

sushimi ,

right.. what part?

joshhsoj1902 ,

most of it...

  • didn't/doesn't address housing shortage.

Not sure what to say about this. This is a failure of every level of government, some levels are more willing to try to address part of this while other levels are actively trying to make it worse. To me this statement feels like it comes from someone who is frustrated but hasn't taken the time to understand the problem that they are frustrated with.

  • didn't/doesn't address inflation.

Inflation is being dealt with... Things are nearly back to normal levels of inflation. You can't say that it's not being addressed.

  • increases taxation as a means to get more income flow to the government

This is normal and a good thing? I'm also not sure which taxes you're referring to? Our taxes haven't really changed much recently.

  • spends crazy(milions and bilions) on S.D.G ideals

Unless you have meaningful examples there isn't anything I can say here.

  • makes it impossible for farmers to meet (Co2 etc)regulations
    • and government buys them out..
    • and Schiphol etc buying that land for extra CO2 credit.

Once again I need some sources on this, this sounds like something you heard and are repeating without taking the time to understand what was being talked about and now you're trying to pass it off as fact.

  • has crazy 'sustainability' demains, which makes international production business move elsewhere

Not sure what you're talking about here. Is this referring to businesses "offshoring" the production of goods? This has been happening for a long time and I hope that we can start bring more manufacturing back "onshore"

  • increasing poverty. People requiring food-bank support is increasing, but because of increasingly harsh business environment the food-bank actually obtains less from industrie.

Yes poverty is up, but not for the reasons you're suggesting(unless you have some new data I haven't seen). food inflation is going to be the new norm until the world gets the climate crisis under control. Our global agriculture system is not built to handle the rapidly changing climate we've created. droughts, floods and war are likely going to continue to cause price instability.

  • many small/medium businesses are going bust because they can't repay the corona-loan. (which many have warned is a slow death trap)

This is also normal? Many economists believe that economic downswings every 7-15 years is good for an economy because it helps wipe out under preforming businesses. if a company took out 60k in loans, and after 4 years hasn't been able to pay back the 40k they owe (20k was already forgiving), and also can't find a bank to move that loan to, they are likely not running a very good business.

I'm glad that we gave these businesses a lifeline during covid, but at some point they need to prove that they can adapt to the new market conditions. No one forced them to take these loans...

So ya, to me most of this was a mix of unsubstantiated opinion and vague concepts, which I feel is acceptable to call nonsense

nyan ,

So what? It isn't as though solar is the only clean energy option out there (and the externalities from the production and disposal of solar panels make it not as environmentally friendly as it looks at first glance, although obviously still better than fossil fuels). Wind, hydro, nuclear, and even tidal may be more appropriate for our much larger, much colder, much less dense, more northerly country. We already have a lot of hydro and (in Ontario) a lot of nuclear, and both seem to serve our needs well.

What we really need to do is shift Alberta's economy away from fossil fuels. That would do a lot more good than a Netherlands-sized installation of solar panels.

CeeBee , (edited )

However, unless unlike Germany, Canada has a stellar nuclear energy industry.

Our CANDU reactors are amongst the best and the safest in the world.

Shou ,

Germany has been dismantling nuclear power plants.

CeeBee ,

I meant to say "unlike Germany". I'll fix it

chonglibloodsport ,

And building liquified natural gas terminals to receive shipments in the US after getting caught with their pants down by Putin. I’m pretty sure Putin’s propaganda machine had a lot to do with Germany’s pullback from nuclear.

Poutinetown , (edited )

I don't think it's fair to look at Canada as a monolith. Quebec is generating most of its energy from hydro, whereas Ontario relies on a well established nuclear energy infrastructure. Provinces that need to change are Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Alberta.

Edit: Manitoba actually relies on hydro for 97% of their usage. So correction: only Alberta and Saskatchewan!

MsSprouts ,
@MsSprouts@vegantheoryclub.org avatar

Yeah especially Alberta with its baloney rules favouring oil interests

DerisionConsulting ,

https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles-manitoba.html

Mantioba's mostly fine, SK and AB are awful though

Kecessa ,

In Alberta you can't refuse to let someone exploit oil resources found on your property but you can't willingly let someone develop solar energy on your property.

Solar farms are financed by giant companies (with the biggest one being financed by Amazon) as a way to greenwash their emission numbers even though the electricity being produced isn't used to power their own infrastructure.

n2burns ,

In Alberta you can’t refuse to let someone exploit oil resources found on your property

TBF, I'm pretty sure that's how it works throughout the country. The title on my home in Ontario has easements for potential minerals/resources as well.

calcopiritus ,

I don't think "our operations run on green energy" matters that much. Energy is energy, if you give other people green energy, you are still reducing emissions. You are just reducing other people's instead of your own, but global warming is a global issue.

Kecessa ,

It matters if it means companies don't actually do anything to improve their emissions and just finance production instead. All that solar energy could have been produced by a crown corporation so the state would reap the profits and it would have forced Amazon to actually improve.

ray ,

Manitoba doesn't belong on that list. Manitoba's electricity comes from 100% renewable sources (~97% hydro, ~3% wind, and 0% fossil fuels).

Poutinetown ,

Yeah I forgot Manitoba was mostly relying on hydro!

phoenixz ,

Isn't Alberta just an oil interests runaway province that at this point is a damn near failed state? Every rule.coming out of that place is "how can we make it even better for our oil overlords"

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

The Netherlands is known for scattered showers, abundant waterways, and actively-used agricultural land, so it took ingenuity for the small country to soar to the top of the continent's solar pyramid.

One in three homes has rooftop solar, commercial ventures are grabbing up space on waterways, and even old landfill sites are finding a second life as energy generators.

While Canada lags behind in solar adoption, many places including Germany, China, Japan and even the United States are moving quickly.

In fact, on certain days, some places are generating so much energy, the price to purchase it is dropping below zero, prompting concerns about storage capacity for the abundant power source.

"Even if the transition is propelled by economics alone, with no further policy drivers to help, renewables could still cross a 50 per cent share of electricity generation at the end of this decade," BloombergNEF's 2024 New Energy Outlook states.

Project Manager Bart Meij says using otherwise empty rooftops offers an untapped revenue stream for building owners is an easy sell.

The original article contains 930 words, the summary contains 172 words. Saved 82%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

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