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punishmenthurts

@[email protected]

late hatched Autist invader on the Wet Coast of Canada, child of the 60s and believed it all. The Hatching is sprinkled through both blogs, and the theory starts with spanking in 2014 and evolves to what, I guess The Antisocialization Theory of Neurodiversity or something by now - but don't try to read it all, it's a mess. Just ask me.

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chevalier26 , to ActuallyAutistic group
@chevalier26@mastodon.social avatar

@actuallyautistic I am officially done. I don’t know how people actually enjoy summer, ESPECIALLY with no AC. “85°F is such a nice temp,” just say you enjoy suffering 😭

But no, if I as much as utter a peep about how I’m miserable and overstimulated, suddenly I’m whining, complaining, a primadonna, and “oh so sensitive” about the heat that everyone is SUDDENLY suffering from at the same level as me.

Still can’t ever win.

punishmenthurts ,
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@chevalier26 @janisf @actuallyautistic
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I spent Saturdays for so long acting like that, minimizing, playing golf in the summer, and half the time, the fairways and greens were moving and breathing like the damned ocean, and that's pretty much heatstroke.
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I think most people don't have that all summer. 😇

punishmenthurts ,
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@janisf @chevalier26 @actuallyautistic
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I mean, I have thyroid issues and maybe other things, but yeah. I think most people don't complain like some of us do until above 90 at least. I was sort of happy the first few days at 100 because finally other people were getting a taste of what 75 feels like to me. I don't feel all that much worse at a 100 than I do at 75.
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I mean, I know it's more dangerous.

punishmenthurts , to ActuallyAutistic group
@punishmenthurts@neurodifferent.me avatar

nobody asks if the Allistic heroes “really existed,” do they? Nobody thinks Alexander was “an amalgam of existing myths.” They believe whatever they wrote about him.
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But no way any real person actually ever said, “Don’t hit back,” huh.
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Sometimes history is just made up from whole cloth like that, is it? And so the trick is just to know which is which and which is true and of course all violent histories that autocrats have written about themselves are all true - after all, we teach about Hitler’s “popularity,” with his own propaganda films, who else did Alexander allow to publish about him but him? - and of course we cannot credit a single story about anyone at at any time saying, “Don’t hit back,” because those stories came from themselves too.
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You see where I’m going, it’s Allistic history too, not just science. There is no room in Allistic history’s brain for a living breathing pacifist, not one. There has to be another explanation.
😈
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@actuallyautistic

punishmenthurts , to ActuallyAutistic group
@punishmenthurts@neurodifferent.me avatar

my obsession with the current and always evolutionary change has most of what people say as nonsense for lacking it, watching a billion posts of “why is it getting worse,” and then answering, “because THOSE people exist,” and failing to notice that they asked why a CHANGE and answered with an “always.”
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It’s not all of it, but it’s like more than halfway to living in a world where no-one believes in gravity, it’s painful and amazing and the shock never goes away for me. 💔
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@actuallyautistic

punishmenthurts OP ,
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@actuallyautistic
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Playing with the analogy:
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like the world thinks gravity is how we got here, in the Before Time, we were floating about in space, but gravity came and brought us all down to Earth, and now we are Earthbound creatures who do not seem to know why things fall, and surely it is not gravity, that thing from our mythical past, but look there it is again!
(Cat scientist pushes another glass off the counter)
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😈 😘

vger , to ActuallyAutistic group
@vger@fidget.place avatar

@actuallyautistic @actuallyadhd

A week ago, I've got my official Autism/ADHD/AuDHD diagnosis. during this week, I've been thinking of one of my problems that has the biggest impact on my wellbeing: hobbies.

For this example I will focus on my hobby of computer gaming, but it happens with pretty much anything. My brain works the following way: I see a new game which I immediately want to try out. I buy that game, play it, have lots of fun with it, but after about 10-20 in-game hours, I lose interest. I happen to watch gamers on YouTube or Twitch, so my brain sees the next game it wants to try. I buy it, 10-20 hours later its uninteresting. This behaviour of seeing new shiny games continues to happen, but heres the actual problem: I've now accumulated several hundreds of games, with a few dozen favorites.

My brain now wants to play a particular game I already own and then starts an internal discussion, why it wants to play that game, and not another one. My ADHD argues, that it would take many hours to continue that game and I would not have enough time to play other exciting games (no matter if I already own them or not). But my Autism wants to fully focus on that game and also on any other game I find exciting. This internal fight causes a lot of stress and I pretty much just burn-out by not playing any games, but just debating which one I should play.

Like I've said, this affects any other hobby as well. So it's not just the internal debate on what game to play, but also what to do besides gaming. I see new interesting stuff: I want to try it out. And when I want to try it out, it's always "all-or-nothing" for me. I want to fully engulf myself in that new hobbie and try out every aspect of it. But the sheer thought of going through it and not having time for other exciting stuff burns be out and there are weeks where I end up not doing any hobby. And when I do that, I get depressed because I didn't spend time with my hobbies.

I'm not sure what I'm asking here. This feels like a really big problem to just take some advise and find a solution. After all, I've had this for the past 10+ years. But after my diagnose it feels like the first time in my life that I have an explanation for this behaviour. My current strategy is finding out which type of games I really enjoy and then just have one or two games per genre that I can play when I have an itch for the genre. But hey, guess what my brain does instead: it starts an argument about why I want to play this genre and not that genre.

Do any of you have similar problems?

punishmenthurts ,
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@JoBlakely @webhat @VulcanTourist @vger @actuallyautistic @actuallyadhd
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jinx! 😀

punishmenthurts , to ActuallyAutistic group
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this is weird, I've never had comfort clothes before, never not had a hard or at least tight waistline, it's like being naked except warmer and I don't have to see myself, this is amazing 😀
it's something like unmasking, this, "giving up," this way
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@actuallyautistic

chevalier26 , to ActuallyAutistic group
@chevalier26@mastodon.social avatar

@actuallyautistic Another day of being told I’m “British” and “don’t understand U.S. weather” on social media because I don’t enjoy summer time and temps above about 72°F because of sensory issues. Have to school them right back by telling them I’m from the southern U.S. 😂

punishmenthurts ,
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@chevalier26 @actuallyautistic those don't sound like people 😂

punishmenthurts ,
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@chevalier26 @actuallyautistic
it's the AI trying to hide the climate from us 😂

punishmenthurts ,
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@pathfinder @Aerliss @chevalier26 @actuallyautistic
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Daywalker like me 😂

filmfreak75 , to ActuallyAutistic group
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@actuallyautistic anyone else tired of always having to be the better person at work?

punishmenthurts ,
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@filmfreak75 @fishidwardrobe @actuallyautistic
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like, don’t do causality, Man 💔

chevalier26 , to ActuallyAutistic group
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@actuallyautistic Just found out that NT people have REAL habits that happen basically on autopilot. This is news to me.

What most NT people think of as a "habit" I think of as a "task," even if it is a part of my routine. For example, brushing and flossing my teeth is a part of my daily routine, but I have to make myself think about each action separately. I wouldn't call them habits because I literally remind myself to do them every night. It isn't automatic.

punishmenthurts ,
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@joshsusser @chevalier26 @actuallyautistic
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in theory, when they practice something, they get better 😂

punishmenthurts ,
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@Uair @joshsusser @chevalier26 @actuallyautistic just that people don't build their lives around things because they're meaningless, there's a meaning. Not saying any of them know or care what it is, but there is one.

chevalier26 , to ActuallyAutistic group
@chevalier26@mastodon.social avatar

@actuallyautistic How did y'all discover which parts of yourself were masking and which parts are genuine? Or, figuring out when you are masking in the moment it happens? Sometimes I feel off in certain scenarios but I can never pinpoint what is masking and what isn't. Any advice or resources would be appreciated!

punishmenthurts ,
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@Zumbador @chevalier26 @actuallyautistic
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I really have no idea what my personality is, it may al be masking. I know what I THINK, but I don't have any awareness of some way to "be," that would be my own.
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I'm taking my first little try at figuring it out right now listening to Autism Chrysalis' list here on a loop right now:
https://youtu.be/V432ZWNpM0E?si=rumGgiC3d1RmK2v9

catswhocode , to ActuallyAutistic group
@catswhocode@mastodon.art avatar

@actuallyautistic @actuallyadhd Is it an ADHD/autistic thing to have tons of tabs open in your browser? I do this :blobfoxlaughsweat: what happens is I'll think of something, open a tab, and then forget that I opened it

punishmenthurts ,
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@tine_schreibt @catswhocode @actuallyautistic @actuallyadhd
I’m brutal about it, generally, if it wasn’t worth it immediately, I notice and close it first thing next day, but I’m extremely exclusionary, I’m trying not to spend another minute reading stuff written by and for normal people, life is too short and it doesn’t fit. ❤️

punishmenthurts ,
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@catswhocode @tine_schreibt @actuallyautistic @actuallyadhd
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Well then you shouldn’t read them either! 😀

punishmenthurts , to ActuallyAutistic group
@punishmenthurts@neurodifferent.me avatar

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I was pondering the other day the theme of , that with Autistics, it can take a long time to find ourselves and do anything (even if we are unabused), and thinking in particular, how do we learn language from people who don't use it?
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I mean, you're supposed to learn what words mean when you're young and it's "spanking doesn't hurt," and "cats don't kill things," how the Hell do we EVER learn what words mean, and it occurs that it takes us extra time, but really, do they EVER learn it?
. 😈
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@actuallyautistic

chevalier26 , to ActuallyAutistic group
@chevalier26@mastodon.social avatar

@actuallyautistic Do y'all know if it's an autistic trait to be super skeptical of stuff? Like, for example, my parents watch some questionable "health" people on YouTube, and when they show me a video from said people, I can tell IMMEDIATELY that they are grifters in it for money. Idk what gives it away but it's like a flashing warning sign in my brain.

I wonder if it has to do with social influence and the effects of charisma/agreeableness that NDs might not fall for.

punishmenthurts ,
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@chevalier26 @actuallyautistic
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I think so.
I do sort of fall for a charismatic, though. I have learned to run from them, but my immediate reaction is the one they like, I'm afraid.
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But yes, my TV has been on all my life and I have shields up for advertising on TV and radio, and in person, well, I don't even want to be there.

punishmenthurts ,
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@chevalier26 @actuallyautistic
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I have what seems to be a radical theory, the unique product of my Autistic mind, that the basic lie of "Human Nature," as in a "Nature," same for all and for all time, sets them up for any bullshit at all, in its denial of evolution and really most simple causality in human affairs.
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If people have managed to be forcibly turned away from basic causality and the fact that people change, then what test do they have for truth? How is anyone to know the difference between real and pseudoscience when the "real," stuff ignores simple emotional causality and evolution?
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Again, just me, I think, NVM, carry on. 😘

punishmenthurts ,
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@chevalier26 @actuallyautistic
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it occurs that this is normally a complaint from "atheists," levelled at the religious, but that for me, and of course I think, "for us," it is expanded, most of the "atheist," scientists, being Allistic, have lost the Creator, but not the forever Nature. I draw that line in a different place; where the atheists," draw it doesn't really change anything.
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It really doesn't matter what you think of a likely fictional Supreme Being, the liine, where it matters, is what you think about people.

punishmenthurts ,
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@hauchvonstaub @chevalier26 @actuallyautistic
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I mean, I'll never learn, I am the Born Yesterday sort forever.
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I suppose I'll keep trusting and losing, but right now, I'm alone, so there's not a lot going on.
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It's not just foolishness, it's often a calculated thing, and I've been willing to take some losses to find or do some good in the world.
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But it's "only foolishness," to a certain sort of a mind, isn't it.
I think to a degree, the folks here bragging that they've learned is sort of sad, we learned a sad thing, and I suppose in the end, we might look back on it as part of masking? Learning their expectations instead of reinfocing our own?
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Meant with love, sorry if I'm Autistically brutal. ❤️

punishmenthurts ,
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@hauchvonstaub @chevalier26 @actuallyautistic
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also, things change, the human world is evolving badly and quickly, it's almost certain that whatever expectations we gained decades ago will no longer fit.
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That we don't talk about evolution makes everything more mysterious than it needs to be.

punishmenthurts ,
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@maggiejk @chevalier26 @actuallyautistic
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I was never really clear about the CRTC (Cannadian Comms regulatory body) laws about rebroadcasting radio station ads through music on hold, no-one seemed to worry about it, but it's true the big corporations buy some gawdawful music source of their own, I've hooked up may sorts of things.
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Complete with their own ads, sometimes. Personally I want to kill someone when I have to listen to the ads for a place I'm already a customer of, like were they never going to shut up? I BOUGHT YOU ALREADY. It's really bad with TV providers, 90 second ads for the service you're already watching, FFS.
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With radio, there are issues, I used to leave them on the pop/rock station, while another installer would leave it on the Christian station. 😀

punishmenthurts ,
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@maggiejk @chevalier26 @actuallyautistic
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early digital Music on Hold devices were short on memory, and extremely repetitive, I still have trauma from testing calls into some systems with those, started hearing that in my sleep

spika , to ActuallyAutistic group
@spika@neurodifferent.me avatar

So, two winters ago I couldn't find what I did with my favorite red coat. I searched everywhere for it, and came up with nothing and was very sad that I had lost it.

For some odd reason, I decided to open the coat closet that's in the basement that we never use, it's just where old coats go to be forgotten... Guess where my coat has been for the past two years. In that closet that I totally forgot to look in.

@actuallyautistic

punishmenthurts ,
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@spika @actuallyautistic
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if it's me I'm worried that it found its way into the not to be worn closet for a reason and I've forgotten that 😇

BernieDoesIt , to ActuallyAutistic group
@BernieDoesIt@mstdn.social avatar

@actuallyautistic Had a few rough days.

punishmenthurts ,
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@BernieDoesIt @actuallyautistic ❤️

punishmenthurts ,
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@BernieDoesIt @actuallyautistic
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yeah?

punishmenthurts ,
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@BernieDoesIt @actuallyautistic
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so true.
I mean, it not being our fault is one goal but it sucks to work hard and achieve that much only for Murphy's Law to get us some other way. 😈

punishmenthurts ,
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@BernieDoesIt @actuallyautistic
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I don't know how I'm doing, I'm distracted, out of my mind high. I'm antsy, but all that is not relatively good compared to when I'm all in touch with myself. ❤️

punishmenthurts ,
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@BernieDoesIt @actuallyautistic
you too

CynAq , to ActuallyAutistic group
@CynAq@neurodifferent.me avatar

“Go out of your comfort zone to grow as a person and become capable of doing more things”

Translation for my and friends for whom this doesn’t seem to work:

“Get yourself exposed to more uncomfortable situations which the neurotypical brain will automagically become desensitized to”

My brain doesn’t get desensitized to virtually anything. “Go out of your comfort zone” isn’t the helpful encouragement you think it is for me.

@actuallyautistic

punishmenthurts ,
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@neversosimple @CynAq @actuallyautistic
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it's not very different from saying "get INTO flight or flight mode," that's what's outside of anything's comfort zone, isn't it

punishmenthurts ,
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@neversosimple @CynAq @actuallyautistic
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"Let that cortisol shrink your brain!"

punishmenthurts ,
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@pathfinder @CynAq @actuallyautistic
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ah, there's a thing, those thoughts resided in my siblings rather than me, about me "being stuck," - meaning, Autistic - but the effect was no different, I was still stuck fighting them ❤️

chevalier26 , to ActuallyAutistic group
@chevalier26@mastodon.social avatar

@actuallyautistic Do any of y'all have EXTREME heat intolerance? It's like the older I get the more I can't put up with hot weather. I've always been very "hot-natured," prefer winter over summer, etc. but this year I think my intolerance has been the worst yet. Friends are telling me how it's peak summer weather (90 degrees is comfortable?!?) meanwhile I start sweating when it's 70+ degrees Fahrenheit outside. What gives?

punishmenthurts ,
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@arisummerland @chevalier26 @actuallyautistic
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I even tried an ice vest for golf, but I have a layer of fat all around and even that couldn't keep my core cool.

punishmenthurts ,
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@arisummerland @chevalier26 @actuallyautistic
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I wasn't big, just I could never get in shape, I 've been soft since adulthood. I think I was pinching an inch at the time, but there's no exposed blood vessels where a vest covers you, it's not like applying ice to your head or your wrists.
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Really, they do?
But just for living, right, not hiking or golfing?

punishmenthurts ,
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@arisummerland @chevalier26 @actuallyautistic
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Yeah, I guess it might have worked at home. Suddenly regretting getting rid of it.

Autistrain , to ActuallyAutistic group
@Autistrain@neurodifferent.me avatar

"in modern humans, language is a tool for communication, contrary to a prominent view that we use language for thinking.",

" language does not appear to be a prerequisite for complex thought, including symbolic thought."

"it plausibly co-evolved with our thinking and reasoning capacities, and only reflects, rather than gives rise to, the signature sophistication of human cognition"

Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07522-w

Sadly, paywalled. But, it gives good points to counter the narrative that if we don't have a language, we can't think, etc.

Edit: If you want to read it:
https://gwern.net/doc/psychology/linguistics/2024-fedorenko.pdf

@actuallyautistic

punishmenthurts ,
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@Autistrain @actuallyautistic
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https://sigmoid.social/@kir0ul/112670072501322431

chevalier26 , to ActuallyAutistic group
@chevalier26@mastodon.social avatar

@actuallyautistic Does anyone else find that their music taste is extremely unconventional? I can enjoy most types of music with others, but when I'm alone I listen to stuff that most people would never listen to. Like historical folk songs, military marches, courtly dance music, sea shanties, etc.

I enjoy other music too but I feel like the above categories are things I am "ashamed" to play around others. Idk if that makes sense lol.

punishmenthurts ,
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@chevalier26 @EVDHmn @Autisticaurochs @actuallyautistic
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here's joke: anything from Deep Purple to Jesus Christ Superstar 🙄

Autistrain , to ActuallyAutistic group
@Autistrain@neurodifferent.me avatar

This essay somehow resonates in me. Since I can remember, I never understood genders. It's simply not a thing for me. Why should we be restrained and oppress ourselves with a binary choice? It doesn't make any sense in a world of diversity. It's a purely social construction that doesn't feet my view and who I am. We are all humans.

“Autistic people aren’t being fooled into being nonbinary. We see past the binary that fools you.”

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2024/06/autistic-people-arent-being-fooled-into-being-nonbinary-we-see-past-the-binary-that-fools-you/

@actuallyautistic @neurodiversity

punishmenthurts ,
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@337guanacos @nddev @james @DoomsdaysCW @Autistrain @actuallyautistic @neurodiversity
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asking for trouble here, but yes, that, for sure.
Also, we're more likely to just have a deep feeling of something huge not being right and so we try on genders in an attempt to fix that?

punishmenthurts ,
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@337guanacos @nddev @james @DoomsdaysCW @Autistrain @actuallyautistic @neurodiversity
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same, I think, if I heard you right?
Gender and sexuality were always on my list of "maybe that's what's going on," but never really took over, and in my sixties, it's finally learning about Autism that seems to be the point.

theautisticcoach , to ActuallyAutistic group
@theautisticcoach@neurodifferent.me avatar

I have spent my adult life stressing the need for autistics not to block out allistics from our life - promoting the idea that we don't need to live a life apart - that this world, with everyone in it, has what to offer for us.

This is becoming increasingly harder to defend.

@actuallyautistic

punishmenthurts ,
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@hellomiakoda @theautisticcoach @actuallyautistic ❤️

catswhocode , to ActuallyAutistic group
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@actuallyautistic @actuallyadhd Another question for both groups: do you find you have "spiky intelligence"? As in, you might be amazing in some areas like math, programming, etc., but struggle with executive functions. I'm good with a lot of artistic fields, but definitely struggle with organization, finances, navigation, etc. My wife and I compensate for each others' challenges.

punishmenthurts ,
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@dpnash @OtterForce @EVDHmn @catswhocode @actuallyautistic @actuallyadhd
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music never got better, but I persist, at least I know this about it, I don't have expectations. But one word:
bloody golf. 😈 💔

punishmenthurts ,
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@dpnash @OtterForce @EVDHmn @catswhocode @actuallyautistic @actuallyadhd
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just saying, I gave it many years, a real try, all pre-hatching, and I always sensed that it wasn't like this for everybody: every Saturday morning, taking my grip and stance, addressing the ball and saying to myself, How TF do you do this again?
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Re-learning every time. 😈

joshsusser , to ActuallyAutistic group
@joshsusser@neurodifferent.me avatar

My own ideas on and human society. Just trying to get this down as concisely as I can, so definitely skimping on the explanations and justifications. Honestly, this is largely speculation, but I'd love to see some good research done on these kinds of ideas. It would be more useful than all the eugenics crap they are wasting money on to identify genetics so they can remove us from the gene pool.

  1. in humans isn't a problem or genetic mistake. It's a natural and important part of what makes us human.

  2. The (NT) neurotype shouldn't be assumed to be the healthy or correct one, but only the most common one. To be specific, it is not the baseline from which all other neurotypes diverge. (It also needs a different name, but let's not fight that battle today.)

  3. Early humans must have had a diversity of neurotypes, just as we do today, but the NT type didn't dominate in pre-agrarian tribal life. Different neurotypes had different strengths and contributed to the success of the tribe in different ways.

  4. The NT neurotype can be characterized, as we do with types. The most prominent attribute is their ability to acquire useful information socially (as opposed to other types which prefer to get information through study, observation and analysis, or other ways). NTs have cognitive shortcuts that help them validate a social information source as trustworthy based on non-verbal signals or social hierarchy. This also lets them align on goals and coordinate activity across large groups more easily.

  5. As agriculture allowed prehistoric human communities to scale up to larger sizes, the NT neurotype became more prominent. NTs thrive in large communities where social connections and hierarchy are the dominant factor in success, while other neurotypes are less well suited for navigating large social structures with complex dynamics.

  6. As NTs prospered, their influence on society increased, and social norms adapted to the way they naturally did things. Society became better suited to NTs and more difficult for other neurotypes, so NTs had an even larger advantage, had more success, bigger families, and grew to dominate the population both socially and genetically.

  7. Over time, the NT ability to function effectively in a population of millions has changed human society from being balanced and inclusive of a diversity of neurotypes, to being entirely dominated by one neurotype. NTs only have to learn how to coexist with each other, but all other neurotypes must learn how to exist under NT dominance. Welcome to neurosupremacy. (see )

  8. The NT cognitive ability to validate trustworthiness is not infallible, especially when talking to other neurotypes. They can easily mistake honest autistic communication as deception or insincerity, or ADHD sporadic attention as disinterest or rejection. (see )

  9. Those NT cognitive shortcuts have failure modes, and can be taken advantage of. For example: charismatic cult leaders, conspiracy theories, mass marketing.

  10. A Humanity of only NTs would probably fall apart in a generation or two. Being neurotypical is great for sharing known information, but take a good look at history and you'll see how much of civilization was discovered and invented by neurodivergent folk. Some of us like to speculate about historical inventors and scientists who might have been Autistic, for good reason. There's most likely also other important people throughout history of other neurotypes that are harder to recognize. Today, we need more a more balanced population and more inclusive norms, as we still rely on the cognitive strengths of non-typical neurotypes. NDs are now a scarce resource and need to be respected and protected, for the good of the species.

(edit: sharing with @actuallyautistic because I forgot before oops)

punishmenthurts ,
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@ScottSoCal @Frantasaur @GTMLosAngeles @joshsusser @actuallyautistic
(I’m waiting on the OP, but I have this bookmarked and I’m 👀

punishmenthurts ,
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@GTMLosAngeles @pathfinder @ScottSoCal @Frantasaur @joshsusser @actuallyautistic
That I like.
I'm thinking in terms of the peacenik archaeology, the Chalice and the Blade - in fact, I understand my new copy is downstairs in my mailbox right now - that you don't really need a leader to simply live.
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But a second thought I need to get out is, the odds are not good in this possibly very Neurodiverse environment (the premise of this thread, I think), that anybody can lead them all at anything. Leading works on a bunch of Allistics, I think, and maybe nowhere else?

punishmenthurts ,
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@GTMLosAngeles @pathfinder @ScottSoCal @Frantasaur @joshsusser @actuallyautistic
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Sounds like a classic comedy premise, one NT guy trying to lead a hundred Neurodivergents , sorry

punishmenthurts ,
@punishmenthurts@neurodifferent.me avatar

@GTMLosAngeles @pathfinder @ScottSoCal @Frantasaur @joshsusser @actuallyautistic
.
I think that was Newsradio (and a thousand other things) 😘
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Fawlty Towers?

punishmenthurts ,
@punishmenthurts@neurodifferent.me avatar

@Frantasaur @GTMLosAngeles @pathfinder @ScottSoCal @joshsusser @actuallyautistic
.
Maya, the World of Illusion. I think these are still dreams for the normal, these things haven’t made it into their actual, functioning ideals yet, which are more like being strong and being seen as such.
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They know those are the goals on paper, but it’s like someone told me about music, it’s this super complicated set of rules that good music doesn’t mind breaking on the regular, except I guess, more so.
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They dream about a life where we can be that way, and so they talk about it a lot, but it is somehow not “real life,” for them, which means the social world, not the actual “real,” one.

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