dev_null

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dev_null ,

I'm sure Temu collects all information you put into the app and your behaviour in it, but this guy is making some very bold claims about things that just aren't possible unless Temu is packing some serious 0-days.

For example he says the app is collecting your fingerprint data. How would that even happen? Apps don't have access to fingerprint data, because the operating system just reports to the app "a valid fingerprint was scanned" or "an unknown fingerprint was scanned", and the actual fingerprint never goes anywhere. Is Temu doing an undetected root/jailbreak, then installing custom drivers for the fingerprint sensor to change how it works?

And this is just one claim. It's just full of bullshit. To do everything listed there it would have to do multiple major exploits that are on state-actor level and wouldn't be wasted on such trivial purpose. Because now that's it's "revealed", Google and Apple would patch them immediately.

But there is nothing to patch, because most of the claims here are just bullshit, with no technical proof whatsoever.

dev_null ,

Yeah, it is. It's such an extraordinary claim.

One requiring extraordinary evidence that wasn't provided.

"It's doing amazing hacks to access everything and it's so good at it it's undetectable!" Right, how convenient.

dev_null ,

Yes, the phone does, but that data is protected in the hardware and never sent to the software, the hardware basically just sends ok / not ok. It's not impossible to hack in theory, nothing is, but it would be a very major security exploit in itself that would deserve a bunch of articles on it's own. And would likely be device specific vulnerability, not something an app just does wherever installed.

dev_null ,

The analysis shows it's spyware, which I don't question. But it's spyware in the bounds of Android security, doesn't hack anything, doesn't have access to anything it shouldn't, and uses normal Android permissions that you have to grant for it to have access to the data.

For example the article mentions it's making screenshots, but doesn't mention that it's only screenshots of itself. It can never see your other apps or access any of your data outside of it that you didn't give it permission to access.

Don't get me wrong, it's very bad and seems to siphon off any data it can get it's hands on. But it doesn't bypass any security, and many claims in the article are sensational and don't appear in the Grizzly report.

dev_null ,

The reported found the app using permissions that are not covered by the manifest.

It didn't found them using them, it's an important distinction. It found code referring to permissions that are not covered by the Manifest file. If that code was ran, the app would crash, because Android won't let an app request and use a permission not in the Manifest file. The Manifest file is not an informational overview, it's the mechanism through which apps can declare permissions that they want Android to allow them to request. If it's not in the Manifest, then it's not possible to use. It's not unusual to have a bunch of libraries in an app that have functionality you don't use, and so don't declare the required permissions in the Manifest, because you don't use them.

It also found the app being capable to execute arbitrary code send by temu.

Yeah, which is shady, but again, there is nothing to indicate that code can go around any security and do any of the sensational things the article claims.

The Grizzly reports shows how the app tricks you into granting permissions that it shouldn't need, very shady stuff. But it also shows they don't have a magical way of going around the permissions. The user has to actually grant them.

dev_null ,

Internal documents on how the AI was trained were obviously not part of the training data, why would they be. So it doesn't know how it was trained, and as this tech always does, it just hallucinates an English sounding answer. It's not "lying", it's just glorified autocomplete.
Saying things like "it's lying" is overselling what it is. As much as any other thing that doesn't work is not malicious, it just sucks.

dev_null ,

Sure, then it's Meta that's lying. Saying the AI is lying is helping these corporations convince people that these models have any intent or agency in what they generate.

dev_null ,

Most projects on GitHub don't have a license, which means it's not allowed.

dev_null ,

Most GitHub repos don't have a license, meaning you are not licensed to do anything with them. Rehosting them would be the same as rehosting an image you don't have a license for.

dev_null ,

You asked about beaches, so are you interested in how they form geologically, which ones are good for surfing, or just looking for a sunbathing destination?

The person you replied to was joking based on your typo.

dev_null ,

I think you meant astronomy. Astrology is pseudoscience horoscopes stuff.

dev_null ,

Sun and Moon are astrological symbols, but stars aren't, so Starbucks wouldn't fit. :P

dev_null ,

Constellations are symbols in astrology, but stars themselves are not. Sure, constellations are made of stars, but words are made of ink and yet I wouldn't say ink is a topic of literature.

dev_null , (edited )

No matter how desperate companies want you to.... Apple , looking at you

Are you implying there is some ulterior motive in phone manufacturers including fingerprint scanners? That Apple has them because they secretly want to make it easier for police to conduct phone searches? Because that's a very bold claim, and "because customers like the convenience" seems to me like a much simpler explanation.

dev_null ,

You claim so and yet have no example article, video, blog post, or any form of proof of it ever being done. Everything is possible in theory, even on iOS (with a jailbreak).

dev_null , (edited )

bro i use linux, i have literally configured a fingerprint scanner to work before

So did I, can confirm it's easy, and it doesn't matter because we are not talking about configuring a fingerprint scanner to work, we are talking about having a phone lock screen that asks for both a fingerprint and a password, something that would require, at the very least, UI that I don't think exists in any Linux phone project. That there is underlying functionality in PAM to make it happen is irrelevant, because that's only part of such a solution.

do you think i’m just making up PAM?

No, why? I'm saying that there is no Linux phone where "you can just do this out of the box" like you say.

dev_null ,

The topic is about phones, and you said:

Gotta love android and IOS being utter dogshit.

If you are saying you started an offtopic conversation about Linux that had nothing to do with phones, and then, unrelated to your own comment, complained about Android and iOS even though your comment had nothing to do with phones, then... that sure is interesting.

dev_null , (edited )

I love VR. So I use it for gaming maybe once a week, for 1-2 hours, usually as an activity with my SO so we can switch who's playing each "round" depending on the game. That's the maximum I find fun instead of tiring. I can't see using it for long periods or for work, that sounds like a nightmare.

dev_null ,

Not that it matters, but obviously if this ever becomes commercialised and actually available, it will no longer be grown in a lab, as labs are equipped for research, not mass production of products.

dev_null ,

Seems like a bold assertion, saying your food tastes better than something that doesn't exist yet, and so cannot be compared.

I mean, you are probably right, but you can't know how dinosaur meat or whatever genetically engineered nonexistent animal meat tastes like.

dev_null ,

I get that, what I mean is that current attempts fail to even taste like animal meat, so it's hard to tell what that could actually taste like in the future. Now they pursue the taste of animal meat, but I imagine if they succeed they will go in other directions. Ultimately it's a tech to grow arbitrary cell structures from arbitrary cells, so nobody says it has to replicate any animal tissue. That's just unfortunately what people are familiar with.

dev_null ,

What tool would you recommend for that?

dev_null , (edited )

If you are comfortable with a cli you could use gnupg. Its man page is good.

If I have cloud storage mounted somewhere I need to be able to drag and drop directories in and out, see the files inside in an unencrypted form, and they should transparently be uploaded encrypted.
This could very well be achieved by a bunch of scripts involving gnupg, but then that's what's I'm looking for, because gnupg by itself wouldn't be productive to use unless as a one-off.

This seems promising: https://szymonkrajewski.pl/encrypted-cloud-drive-rclone/

dev_null ,

Or, because Apple gets a free service that would cost an insane amount of money if they were to pay API fees or build their own data centers and models, and OpenAI gets free advertising by being included in millions of Apple devices. Seems pretty simple.

dev_null ,

What's wrong with them? I never used them (I don't have an iPhone), but they seem useful.

dev_null , (edited )

I see, I was thinking from the the perspective of using them, not someone malicious dropping one on you, that's definitely a problem.

At least your phone should inform you of it, unlike with the generic GPS trackers on Amazon.

dev_null ,

If a species used radio communication, I don't think I'd be against people calling it telepathy.

dev_null , (edited )

Why inconsistent? It's a transfer of information without physical interaction and without using any human senses.

I guess the difference in definition would be "human" senses. If you define it as using no human senses it fits, if you define it as not using any senses it doesn't, but that would be a useless definition, because nothing could possibly satisfy it.

dev_null , (edited )

Britannica dictionary defines it with "without using the usual sensory channels"

Cambridge dictionary with "without using words or other physical signals"

Collins "without speech, writing, or any other normal signals"

Merriam-Webster uses "extrasensory", and they define "extrasensory" as "outside the ordinary senses"

All of it seems to match radio communication, and all require it to be between two persons or minds, so flowers and bees definitely don't qualify.

dev_null ,

And if they could use it to exchange thoughts and ideas with others, I'd call that telepathy, but they don't/

dev_null , (edited )

Hah, I'd expect "ordinary" and "normal" here to mean "ordinary / normal senses for a human", not for the hypothetical telepathy user. That wouldn't be a very useful usage of these words, so I doubt that's what was meant here. There is always a reference point for someone saying something is "normal" or "ordinary", and that reference point, for a human dictionary, would be a human with human senses.

When I say that a shark has an extraordinary set of teeth, I obviously mean from a human point of view, and not claiming that it's not normal from the shark's point of view. And when I, or a dictionary, say that telepathy doesn't use usual senses, similarly the meaning is that they would be unusual for a human, and personally I would find a species having a sense for radio waves, to be unusual.

dev_null , (edited )

Many animals have a vastly superior sense of smell, can see light outside our visible spectrum or hear sound outside our hearing range. But it would be silly to call all these things “telepathy” just because we humans don’t have these senses.

It would be silly to call these things telepathy because by themselves they don't facilitate a way to communicate thoughts between two minds. Even in the case of radio waves, a sense of radio waves wouldn't be telepathy by itself, unless there is also a mechanism of generating these radio waves, and unless these two mechanisms are used to communicate ideas between users, just like the sense of hearing is just one part of spoken communication.

If a species had an organ that could generate light outside the visible spectrum to accompany their superior eyes, and they were using it to talk, then yes "telepathic" would a sensible word to describe that. But that special organ, and the mental processing, would be the important parts, not the better eyes.

And when you’re talking about the biology of animals it seems quite self-centred to compare everything to us. We are just one very specific animal.

Well, I didn't write the definitions. :)

dev_null ,

Sure, but isn't the the perpetrator the company that trained the model without their permission? If a doctor saves someone's life using knowledge based on nazi medical experiments, then surely the doctor isn't responsible for the crimes?

dev_null ,

The discussion will never be resolved in your favour, if you shut down the discussion.

dev_null ,

The discussion will never be resolved in your favour, if you shut down the discussion.

dev_null ,

The discussion will never be resolved in your favour, if you shut down the discussion.

dev_null ,

The discussion will never be resolved in your favour, if you shut down the discussion.

dev_null ,

The discussion will never be resolved in your favour, if you shut down the discussion.

dev_null ,

The discussion will never be resolved in your favour, if you shut down the discussion.

dev_null ,

The discussion will never be resolved in your favour, if you shut down the discussion.

dev_null ,

The discussion will never be resolved in your favour, if you shut down the discussion.

dev_null ,

The discussion will never be resolved in your favour, if you shut down the discussion.

dev_null ,

The discussion will never be resolved in your favour, if you shut down the discussion.

dev_null ,

The discussion will never be resolved in your favour, if you shut down the discussion.

dev_null ,

The discussion will never be resolved in your favour, if you shut down the discussion.

dev_null ,

The discussion will never be resolved in your favour, if you shut down the discussion.

dev_null ,

The discussion will never be resolved in your favour, if you shut down the discussion.

dev_null ,

Sorry, my app glitched out and posted my comment multiple times, and got me banned for spamming...
Now that I got unbanned I can reply.

So is the car manufacturer responsible if someone drives their car into the sidewalk to kill some people?

In this scenario no, because the crime was in how someone used the car, not in the creation of the car. The guy in this story did commit a crime, but for other reasons. I'm just saying that if you are claiming that children in the training data are victims of some crime, then that crime was committed when training the model. They obviously didn't agree for their photos to be used that way, and most likely didn't agree for their photos to be used for AI training at all. So by the time this guy came around, they were already victims, and would still be victims if he didn't.

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