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davel , to Asklemmy in Why are socialist and communist countries usually considered more authoritarian than capitalist countries?
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Perhaps, if NATOpedia’s raw data is to be trusted.

Incarceration rates and counts. From World Prison Brief

The World Prison Brief at PrisonStudies.org is an online database providing free access to information on prison systems around the world. It is now hosted by the Institute For Crime & Justice Policy Research (ICPR), Birkbeck College, University of London.

It was previously hosted by the International Centre for Prison Studies (ICPS). It was a research centre at the University of Essex. It was launched at the House of Lords on 4 April 2011. Between 1997 and 2010 ICPS was based in King's College London and was launched formally by Home Secretary Jack Straw in October 1997. In July 2010 the International Centre for Prison Studies incorporated and registered as a charity with the Charities Commission of England and Wales. From the outset the Centre was independent of governmental and intergovernmental agencies, although it would work closely with them.

So who really knows what the quality of the data is without further investigation. But it seems to have been originally created by the UK’s military-intelligence-industrial complex.

davel , to Asklemmy in Why are socialist and communist countries usually considered more authoritarian than capitalist countries?
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

If liberals are about intentions & sentiments then why do they keep telling me they’re about facts & logic? smuglord

davel , to Asklemmy in Why are socialist and communist countries usually considered more authoritarian than capitalist countries?
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I mean, you’re asking about two separate political axis: economy, and control.

same-picture

You may not realize that these are in no way orthogonal to each other, but the bourgeoisie certainly do, because they own the means of production, and they use the state to enforce the private ownership that perpetuates their control over the proletariat.

davel , to Asklemmy in Why are socialist and communist countries usually considered more authoritarian than capitalist countries?
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

The Nordic countries are at best welfare capitalist states, and that welfare relies on the super-exploitation of the Global South. No Nordic country is even gesturing toward the abolition of private ownership of the means of production. In fact they’re moving in the opposite direction, toward the neoliberal privatization of more and more of the commons and the financialization of everything, which is burying the working class in debt. The Eurozone is just the cartel of the European private banks, and it was designed to enforce neoclassical economics and preclude Keynsian economics.

davel , (edited ) to Asklemmy in Why are socialist and communist countries usually considered more authoritarian than capitalist countries?
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

I think because they mod !noyank.

ETA: What a stupid, unproductive, corrosive thread this fucking was.

davel , to Asklemmy in Why are socialist and communist countries usually considered more authoritarian than capitalist countries?
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I think the myopic point you’re making is unintentionally promoting some heinous stuff, or else I have to wonder how you seemed to end up with a Lemmygrad alt account. I’m not seeing any “yanks” here being confused about race.

davel , to Asklemmy in Why are socialist and communist countries usually considered more authoritarian than capitalist countries?
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

This sounds like a neoliberal just-so story that may have come out of The Road to Serfdom.

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/450cd4a3-795a-4bda-845e-854453b536ca.jpeg

China files more patents than the next nine countries combined: https://www.wipo.int/en/ipfactsandfigures/patents

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/83ec576b-b536-40ac-b2f1-3dafd22b9894.png

China is first country to hold over 4 million domestic patents

The number of China's domestic valid patents does not include those held in Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan.

davel , to Asklemmy in Why are socialist and communist countries usually considered more authoritarian than capitalist countries?
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davel , (edited ) to Asklemmy in Why are socialist and communist countries usually considered more authoritarian than capitalist countries?
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Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: racism

We really ought to teach critical race theory in schools like conservative politicians and pundits claim.

davel , (edited ) to Asklemmy in Why are socialist and communist countries usually considered more authoritarian than capitalist countries?
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

I already covered the origins of this propagandistic Western conceptualization of “authoritarianism”/“totalitarianism” in another comment in this post. But I’ll add a 1955 CIA report that was declassified in 2008.

Even in Stalin’s time there was collective leadership. The Western idea of a dictator within the Communist setup is exaggerated. Misunderstandings on that subject are caused by lack of comprehension of the real nature and organization of the Communist power structure. Stalin, although holding wide powers, was merely the captain of a team and it seems obvious that Khrushchev will be the new captain.

davel , to Asklemmy in Why are socialist and communist countries usually considered more authoritarian than capitalist countries?
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

If you’re saying authoritarianism can be explained by non-whiteness…

I’m not saying that. I’m saying that “whiteness” as a construct is a tool of capitalism/imperialism/colonialism. And that the Global North similarly tends to attribute “authoritarianism” to whichever states are acting insufficiently subservient to their imperialist interests at any given moment. And I’m saying that these two constructs have a tendency to be aligned with each other, because they’re both tools of capitalism/imperialism/colonialism.

But also saying that anyone opposing NATO become ipso facto non-white because it’s “an ever-shifting construct”…

Whiteness is as old as European colonialism, and has been baked into capitalism—which began in Europe—from the start. Whiteness has been twisted into all sorts of nonsensical logic pretzels. See for example honorary Aryans honorary whites. It has no explanatory power because it is simply a tool of power. Even the Irish, Italian, and other Catholic European immigrants have suffered it within our own country. As Josep Borrell has more-or-less said, the imperial core is the “garden”, and the rest of the world is the “jungle.” Imperialism uses race—which again is made-up bullshit—as a tool to justify their imperialism.

You’re saying “authoritarianism = non-whiteness = opposition to the NATO bloc”

I’m not saying that, but the NATO bloc often seems to imply it. international-community-1international-community-2

davel , to Asklemmy in Why are socialist and communist countries usually considered more authoritarian than capitalist countries?
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

The whole point of a communist system is a centrally planned, and controlled, economy.

This has not been universally true among socialist states.

This gives the state immense control

All states have immense control by virtue of having a monopoly on violence.

The capitalist class controls the state in capitalist countries, including ostensibly democratic” ones. They use the state to to rule the working class and to protect their private property.

self preservation at any cost.

This is practically every state that has ever existed.

“rules for rulers” by cgp grey,

cringe Maybe step away from the Polandballs and go read/listen to some books.

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/c9355777-f283-429e-9825-46b805bcc7dc.jpeg

davel , to Asklemmy in Why are socialist and communist countries usually considered more authoritarian than capitalist countries?
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

This Soviet World

Most Americans shrink from the word “dictatorship.” “I don’t want to be dictated to,” they say. Neither, in fact, does anyone. But why do they instinctively take the word in its passive meaning, and see themselves as the recipients of orders? Why do they never think that they might be the dictators? Is that such an impossible idea? Is it because they have been so long hammered by the subtly misleading propaganda about personal dictatorships, or is it because they have been so long accustomed to seek the right to life through a boss who hires them, that the word dictatorship arouses for them the utterly incredible picture of one man giving everybody orders?

No country is ruled by one man. This assumption is a favorite red herring to disguise the real rule. Power resides in ownership of the means of production—by private capitalists in Italy, Germany and also in America, by all workers jointly in the USSR. This is the real difference which today divides the world into two systems, in respect to the ultimate location of power. When a Marxist uses the word “dictatorship,” he is not alluding to personal rulers or to methods of voting; he is contrasting rule by property with rule by workers.

The heads of government in America are not the real rulers. I have talked with many of them from the President down. Some of them would really like to use power for the people. They feel baffled by their inability to do so; they blame other branches of government, legislatures, courts. But they haven’t analyzed the real reason. The difficulty is that they haven’t power to use. Neither the President nor Congress nor the common people, under any form of organization whatever, can legally dispose of the oil of Rockefeller or the gold in the vaults of Morgan. If they try, they will be checked by other branches of government, which was designed as a system of checks and balances precisely to prevent such “usurpation of power.” Private capitalists own the means of production and thus rule the lives of millions. Government, however chosen, is limited to the function of making regulations which will help capitalism run more easily by adjusting relations between property and protecting it against the “lawless” demands of non-owners. This constitutes what Marxists call the dictatorship of property. “The talk about pure democracy is but a bourgeois screen,” says Stalin, “to conceal the fact that equality between exploiters and exploited is impossible. . . . It was invented to hide the sores of capitalism . . . and lend it moral strength.”

Power over the means of production—that gives rule. Men who have it are dictators. This is the power the workers of the Soviet Union seized in the October Revolution. They abolished the previously sacred right of men to live by ownership of private property. They substituted the rule: “He who does not work, neither shall he eat.” -

davel , to Asklemmy in Why are socialist and communist countries usually considered more authoritarian than capitalist countries?
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

Liberalism is founded on facts and logic, therefore liberals have an inalienable right to expound on unfounded ideas.

NO INVESTIGATION, NO RIGHT TO SPEAK

Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it. Isn't that too harsh? Not in the least. When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense. Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak? Quite a few comrades always keep their eyes shut and talk nonsense, and for a Communist that is disgraceful. How can a Communist keep his eyes shut and talk nonsense?

It won't do!

It won't do!

You must investigate!

You must not talk nonsense!

davel , to Asklemmy in Why are socialist and communist countries usually considered more authoritarian than capitalist countries?
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

That’s why Russians aren’t “white” anymore. They’ve been downgraded to asiatic horde again, which is why NATOpedia has trotted out meat wave theory again. Like authoritarianism, whiteness is also an ever-shifting construct of imperialism/colonialism.

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