‘No way out without bloodshed’: the right believe the US is under threat and are mobilizing ( www.theguardian.com )

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/17713638

““If we jail Trump, get rid of Maga, end the electoral college, ban voter ID, censor free speech, we’ll save democracy,” says one meme in a QAnon channel on Telegram that depicts Biden in a Nazi uniform with a Hitler mustache”

Apparently they at least understand their opponent’s view .

ZK686 ,

Gotta love Lemmy... my post gets removed because it's "misinformation" and then, I'm called names, harassed and threatened... and the mods just laugh... Reddit 2.0 in full effect, as rumored..

ZK686 ,

Silly, no one is mobilizing. Another scare tactic to make people vote Democrat.

Adderbox76 ,

"The right" doesn't believe any such thing. "The right' doesn't exist. MAGA believes it. Probably the GOP believes it. But those two groups don't hold the patent on "conservative thinking".

Never confuse the loudest for the most numerous. They are a minority of fundamentalists who have taken over the microphones of the GOP, but the vast majority of "everyday folk" are just trying to live their lives just like you or I.

The very proof of that is Trump's guilty verdict. Do you think there weren't at least a few "conservatives" on that jury? Of course their were. But a person can be conservative and still do their duty. I'm willing to be a number of service men and women in the military are also conservative, but I have no belief that they'll suddenly "rebel" because at the end of the day, they aren't insane. I'm sure some of the capitol police on J6 lean conservative as well. But guess what, they all just did their job.

Maga is not "conservatives". In fact MAGA is not a political ideology at all; it's a very loud excuse to use hate as a weapon, nothing more. While I may not be "conservative" in any sense of the word, and believe it's a relic of history, it's not MAGA. It's a very real and tangible political thing that sadly never gets debated or talked about anymore because MAGA shouts over top of it.

Dkarma ,

The thing is conservatism IS MAGA. It is the seed that bears horrible fruit.

Conservatives have never ever been the good guys in the history of the United States.

Period.

Imagine pretending the arm isn't attached to the armpit cuz it stinks less...

Adderbox76 ,

Hard disagree here.

I agree with you that Conservatism is an outdated concept that it's done far more harm than good in the world. It's a relic that needs to be relegated to the dust-bin of history, yes.

But Conservatism is nothing more than a series of economic and political ideals. Nothing more. There are a thousand different reasons for people to identify with one side or the other. Neither Conservatism nor the left equivalent are monolithic static things. They're protean and change depending on the motivations of the people who currently hold their reins in the public sphere.

Does Conservatism (ie. The Right) generally attract more people with intolerant beliefs and hateful dogmatic behaviours? You'll get no argument from me there. But the number of them that are willing to pick up arms and commit treason because of it. The number of the right that is wiling to use their intolerance as an excuse for violence, is still the minority no matter how many ways you slice it.

Conservatism might be old and outdated. It might be a haven for the uneducated and the intolerant. But here's the thing...

It always has been.

And if it always has been, than why were the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, all violence free? Why was there heated debate between the two sides, but not violence? What's changed now?

And you know the answer to that.

todd_bonzalez ,

But Conservatism is nothing more than a series of economic and political ideals. Nothing more.

Uh huh, and what do those policies look like?

  • No right to vote. (See: Kansas Supreme Court)
  • Government decides who you get to marry. (No gay marriage)
  • Government-enforced dress codes. (No Drag or "Transgenderism")
  • Book Bans. (Criminalizing LGBTQ+ literature or writings by non-white authors)
  • Expanding the Death Penalty to include non-violent criminals. (Currently targeted at sex offenders, but with a clear aim to target LGBTQ+ people)
  • Expanding the justice system to include torture and other deliberate forms of cruelty. (Currently targeted at sex offenders, but with a clear aim to target LGBTQ+ people)
  • Right Wing Dictatorship. (Crush "Wokeness" and make the Democratic party illegal)
  • Genocide. (Calls to "exterminate" trans people at CPAC)
  • Genocide. (Calls to completely wipe out Palestine)
  • Genocide. (Openly celebrate police killing PoC)
  • Genocide. (Lots of literal Neo-Nazis, including in elected party positions)
  • Genocide. (Happy to let poor people die from lack of access to health care)
  • Genocide. (Regularly calling for Nuclear War, especially against Arab/Muslim nations)
  • Genocide. (Regularly calling for Civil War because they want to wipe out their political enemies)
  • Murder. (Calling for citizens to engage in vigilante justice, such as running people over in the street or throwing them off of bridges)
  • Murder. (Celebrating killers like Kyle Rittenhouse and calling them "heroes" for killing democrats/leftists.)

So yeah, "Nothing more" than some perfectly normal "political ideals". Nothing to see here. /s

Adderbox76 ,

I'm going to concede defeat here because obviously I'm not doing a good enough job in explaining my position. But everything you just listed is exactly my point. When did all of those things start occuring? Was it before or after MAGA took over the Republican Party?

Essentially all I'm saying is that Correlation does not equal causation. All of those things you've just listed aren't because they're conservatives, it's because they're assholes. They just happened to find a party (Republicans) that told them that it's okay to let your asshole flag fly. Conservatism and Republicanism are two different things. Always have been. Conservatism is economic theory (low taxes, high privatization, lower goverment oversight, etc...) Republicanism is political theory (immigration, law and order, militarization, etc...)

MAGA took over Republicanism, convinced everyone that it was Conservatism in order to appeal to the "common folk" in order to take over the GOP.

You're list isn't a list of Conservative ideals, it's a list of Republican ideals. Those aren't the same thing.

I guess what I'm saying is, again, Correlation is not causation. All republicans are are conservatives, yes. But not all Conservatives are Republicans (or at least they wouldn't be if the country wasn't in the grip of some two-party system bullshit. They're two very different things.

But again, I'm not doing a good job of explaining that, obviously, so I'm going to back out with grace and take the "L".

Have a good day.

OppositeOfOxymoron ,

I’m going to concede defeat here because obviously I’m not doing a good enough job in explaining my position.

It's because your position is indefensible given recent history and the trajectory of the political landscape.

Adderbox76 ,

Fair enough. You're more than welcome to your opinion. But to my mind, what's indefensible (and ridiculous, frankly) is painting absolutely everyone on one side with the same brush, no matter how much you may hate that side's ideals (or lack thereof).

OppositeOfOxymoron ,

Uh, one side is unrelenting about suppressing everyone else's rights, and has demonstrated that they're willing to take control by force and violence if they don't get 'their ideals'. If you're on that side, you're an asshole, and being 'painted' as an asshole is the least that you deserve.

Please stop for a moment, step outside your yourself, and ask... "Am I the baddie?"

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