TIL 40 states in the US charge you $20-$80 a day for being incarcerated in prison. ( en.m.wikipedia.org )

Very weird that I am so old and have literally never heard this mentioned in a TV show or book or movie or anything.

In four out of five states, if you go to prison, you are literally paying for the time you spend there.

As you can guess, this results in crippling debt as soon as you're released.

The county gets back a fraction of what they hold over your head the rest of your life until you commit suicide(or die naturally and peacefully with the sword of damocles hanging over your head).

$20-$80 a day according to Rutgers.

Counties apparently sue people and employ wage garnishment to get back the money that majority of people obviously cannot pay back.

https://www.rutgers.edu/news/states-unfairly-burdening-incarcerated-people-pay-stay-fees

harrys_balzac ,

In Utah, you get charged fees by the day if you've been charged and/or convicted of a misdemeanor. No charge if it's a felony. They figure they'll get their moneys worth if the inmate goes to work at Utah Corrections Industries.

Varyk OP ,

Even if you're just charged, or you have to be convicted and in prison?

harrys_balzac ,

Charged. No fees for prison. Just county/local jail.

BreadOven ,

System of a down - Prison song.

Varyk OP ,

Someone actually copied and pasted the lyrics here somewhere, if you go looking.

https://lemmy.world/comment/9798055

There

BreadOven ,

Nice, I didn't see it before. Must have missed it.

Ookami38 ,

One of my go-tos for karaoke.

BreadOven ,

Nice.

leanleft ,
@leanleft@lemmy.ml avatar

Indicative of a failed system OR a abusive system.
Pick one.
There are no other explanations.
Pick one.

Varyk OP ,

There are definitely other explanations, and neither of those are helpful or tell the whole picture.

YeetPics ,

I feel the same way about media control and social punishments for thought crimes.

Dkarma ,

"social punishments for thought crimes."

You mean consequences for what you say?

$1000 says your post history shows you to be a completely horrible person.

fruitycoder ,

It only makes sense if you think of criminality as some baked in trait in someone or see hurting criminals as the goal in some twisted sense of justice.

Mango ,

Abusive. Been there. Got abused.

Renegade_roosteR , (edited )

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    Varyk OP ,

    Nah, lots of things are getting better also.

    Also, it's not as cool to joke about suicide as you think.

    Sam_Bass , (edited )

    So they can sponge off any legal judgements you get for false imprisonment

    FlashMobOfOne ,
    @FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

    That's the beauty of both ruling parties being 100% in support of the prison industrial complex. In fact, our current president even helped usher through the '94 Crime Bill, which keeps prisons nice and full for his golf buddies and institutional donors.

    Ookami38 ,

    Remember, though, that people, opinions, and political landscapes can change. Yes, Biden was pretty shit back in the 90s, but it actually feels a little bit like he's trying to move back in the other direction. Don't gotta forget the bad, but also can't forget the (attempts at) good

    Dkarma ,

    Right it's important to remember 94 was literally 30 years ago. Attitudes can change significantly in that time.

    FlashMobOfOne ,
    @FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

    Remember, though, that people, opinions, and political landscapes can change.

    Yeah, but Biden hasn't.

    Remember when he mocked 'Defund the Police' in his first state of the union address?

    He's an authoritarian. Always has been, and he's been a reliable vote in favor of every regressive piece of legislation that's led the country to this point, where fascism is becoming normalized.

    laughterlaughter ,

    Oh, please. If he was an authoritarian, he would behave like Trump or any other authoritarian ruler out there.

    Remember when Trump was president? He would kick reporters out of the white house, or tear gas people in front of the white house for a photo op. He said stuff like "I totally won't do this," then the very following day, he would do that. His speech was divisive. Should I go on?

    FlashMobOfOne ,
    @FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

    Just because Trump was more personally belligerent doesn't change the fact that Biden is an authoritarian.

    laughterlaughter ,

    You just spotted my flawed argument. True. Biden is not authoritarian, though.

    Tell me how is Biden authoritarian, Russian Agent ?

    FlashMobOfOne ,
    @FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

    Going ad hominem just makes you look sillier.

    Jax ,

    And yet, the only person I'm thinking of mocking is you

    FlashMobOfOne ,
    @FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

    Right, because you're insecure about the fact that you can't rebut my replies.

    The problem with that is we all have to suffer for the insistence of you and yours to elect these people.

    keyez ,

    Funny the left feels the EXACT same way, report to your handlers/Putin your job was done for today and some fresh air would be a good idea.

    laughterlaughter ,

    I asked you a question, Chat GPT spawn. Answer it.

    Ookami38 ,

    He's had some policies I agree with, that move us towards a less police state level. I admit, I haven't followed him super closely, he's less interesting than things have been lately, but at least the federal decriminalization of marijuana and pardons (I know they were effectively useless, didn't really do anything - we can get into exactly why) show he's at least trying to do what constituents want, which is a far cry more than a lot of other politicians.

    Can he, should he, do more? Yeah. But credit where it's due, he seems like he's trying to steer two giant ships - his own past biases, and the United States political climate. Both of those are slow and hard to do, so anything moving in that direction should be celebrated.

    havokdj ,

    Don't be fooled, Joe doesn't give a shit about decriminalizing any substance, after all, he wqs the biggest proponent of the RAVE act

    Ookami38 ,

    See, this is EXACTLY my point. We all get obsessed over the things of the past, and while those can help inform us of the present, they're not actually the present.

    Yes, he was a proponent of the RAVE act. That's one of those "don't forget the bads" that I mentioned. We can accept that, and also accept that he seems to have lightened up on that BS in recent times.

    No one's perfect, everyone changes their minds about things. You did horrible things in your past too, almost certainly. That's not you, we can accept that, but for politicians it's this unchanging thing - you supported one thing, you will always continue supporting that thing.

    Let people grow. Let ideas be brought up, and shot down. Let mistakes be in the past, and start focusing on what's actually happening in the present.

    havokdj ,

    It's not about "being obsessed with the past" it's about paying attention to history, particularly a certain person's history. Joe biden had not been even remotely interested in legalization/decriminalization until he started running for office. Joe Biden was already an old man when he pushed for enforcement of the RAVE act along with other drug bills, I can maybe understand his "concrete jungle" statements from the 70's, but we are literally talking about barely over 20 years ago.

    All I am saying is to be cautious and not too trusting, ESPECIALLY of politicians.

    Ookami38 ,

    Right. As I said, you can use the past to color your present, but the thing that matters presently is present actions and, to a lesser extent, words. So, judging him based on his actions during presidency, which should show us either his current beliefs or, at least, his willingness to listen to constituents.

    During his presidency, he's been... Well, I won't say stellar, but his actions have been more in line with someone who actually wants better, rather than someone who wants to cling to old habits. Again, could he do more, yes. But his record -recently- has been, for a politician, pretty good.

    You bring up the RAVE act. That was 20 years ago. 20 of the most eventful years in at least modern history. Do you think someone is incapable of change for 20 years? I know I've changed drastically just in the last 2 or 3 years. I mean, yeah, he's old, but I've seen old people change too. Might not come full revolution, change is slow, but again - any progress is worth acknowledging and celebrating.

    Is there something he's done during his presidency that leads you to believe he's still got those same values from prior? We can talk efficacy of some of his planned solutions, and some of his lack of a spine, but I think overall his actions are consistent with his words, in this regard.

    havokdj ,

    I agree with you for the most part, but at the end of the day, you have to take someone in power action by action. Everyone who has ever held office has pretty much done at least one or two good things for their community. I'm not saying that I'm totally anti Joe Biden, but I think that he (like all politicians) can be full of shit sometimes. Remember back when he got elected, he proceeded to undo everything trump did about border control and even made that a big part of his campaign? As of late, he has slowly been reimplementing those policies. I think Biden is someone who rides off emotion and public feedback in relation to followers of his party, which can be a good thing but it can also be a bad thing.

    HawlSera ,

    People change as the issues become more apparent, when Obama was elected he said he "Respected the LGBT Community" but firmly believed "Marriage is between a man and a woman"

    This same president gave us Gay Marriage in all 50 states

    goldenlocks ,

    Liberals hate the fact they openly support a right wing segregationist authoritarian

    FlashMobOfOne ,
    @FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

    They don't hate that fact enough, unfortunately.

    Aolley ,

    When in most of our lifetimes has the u.s. presidental election not been 'the lesser of two evils'?

    FlashMobOfOne ,
    @FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

    This excuse, to me, seems to emphasize the necessity of a third-party vote even more.

    DAMunzy ,

    Yeah, he wants to be known as a good guy. Look at GW Bush. They all want to be known as good guys late in life. Gates, Buffet, et al.

    havokdj ,

    RAVE act

    fukurthumz420 ,

    so then vote for trump, right? gtfooh

    FlashMobOfOne ,
    @FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

    I vote third party.

    Choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich isn't very appealing to me.

    Also, people like you pretending you didn't need the votes of people like me is how we got Trump in the first place.

    fukurthumz420 ,

    sure. hold humanity hostage because you can't get exactly what you want, traitor. i'm not going to kiss your ass to vote for practical results. if you're too blind to see what you're doing, you can live with the consequences. i have a feeling you have a lot more time left on this planet than i do, junior.

    Tattorack ,
    @Tattorack@lemmy.world avatar

    Jesus Christ, you're calling another person a traitor over... this. XD

    You Americans are like a bad parody. What a terrible farce this is.

    MalachaiConstant ,

    In a two party system, voting third party will only ever result in your vote being thrown out. It is taking a stand against reality for the sake of your own personal idealism.

    A lot of left-aligned voters learned that lesson the hard way in 2016. If you didn't learn the lesson, you either weren't paying attention or your idealism is more important to you than the actual outcome of the vote.

    Doing that willingly, despite (or maybe because) the rest of your side screaming at you not to fuck this up again, is absolutely a level of betrayal.

    Tattorack ,
    @Tattorack@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, this whole explanation is just you saying "Our country is broken and I don't want to fix it".

    MalachaiConstant ,

    More like "you think you're helping but you are not"

    KrapKake ,

    Yea OK, just keep voting for same parties over and over again. Let's just maintain the shitty status quo where nothing really gets better regardless of who is in office!

    MalachaiConstant ,

    So your solution is to vote in protest for a party you know won't win.

    I'm actually curious now, what possible good do you think that's doing?

    awwwyissss ,

    Blah blah blah same propaganda, same lies. Even a fool could say you're trying to get Trump elected.

    samus12345 ,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    https://frinkiac.com/video/S08E01/J7yIZo53_hGwrjk055XwG-6sTLQ=.gif

    i_ben_fine ,

    Oh no! somebody criticized Biden!

    fukurthumz420 ,

    criticize him all you want... after he's elected.

    we all hate the either/or state of american politics, but it's still the reality. live in reality, ppl.

    i_ben_fine ,

    after he's elected

    what?

    fukurthumz420 ,

    what don't you understand about my statement?

    samus12345 ,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    Re-elected, of course.

    goldenlocks ,

    You consent to all these issues with your vote for Dems. I on the other hand will express democracy by voting for a candidate that opposes this: Jill Stein.

    fukurthumz420 ,

    you mean to tell me you're going to vote for jill stein in november? what state do you live in? it better not be a battle ground state

    goldenlocks ,

    Absolutely, because she is the candidate of the largest party I agree with.

    fukurthumz420 ,

    do you understand how american elections work? are you in a battleground state?

    goldenlocks ,

    That is how elections work, I'm the one acting democratically here

    fukurthumz420 ,

    DO. YOU. LIVE. IN. A BATTLEGROUND STATE?

    goldenlocks ,

    Irrelevant. Stein is closest to what I support, so I vote for her.

    fukurthumz420 ,

    i'm not going to argue with you. i can see from your comment history that you're a lost cause. you are damning people to consequences they don't deserve, which makes you no different from conservatives. you are effectively the enemy and deserve to be treated the same.

    goldenlocks ,

    you are damning people to consequences they don’t deserve

    This is you telling poor people to vote for wealthy Dems

    fukurthumz420 ,

    this is me telling you to pull your head out of your ass and think about consequences. stop replying to me. i have nothing more to say to you, traitor.

    goldenlocks ,

    this is me telling you to pull your head out of your ass and think about consequences

    You can't even accept you consent to bombing children in Gaza with your Biden vote.

    stop replying to me. i have nothing more to say to you, traitor.

    You lost the argument, and now are trying to find a way out lmao.

    fukurthumz420 ,

    You can’t even accept you consent to bombing children in Gaza with your Biden vote.

    nah. my vote doesn't mean that. what a very dumb thing to say, traitor.

    You lost the argument, and now are trying to find a way out lmao.

    lol. you're fucking delusional, traitor.

    goldenlocks ,

    nah. my vote doesn’t mean that. what a very dumb thing to say, traitor.

    It literally does whether you want to accept it or not. We provide money and weapons to bomb children, you vote in support of the president doing this.

    lol. you’re fucking delusional, traitor.

    The only traitor here is you voting for corporate fascism, willfully voting in support of the rich.

    fukurthumz420 ,

    nope. fuck off.

    goldenlocks ,

    The truth hurts

    i_ben_fine ,

    What are you going to do about it?

    Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_effect

    https://fairvote.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Blog-Image-Template-New.png

    goldenlocks ,

    Biden or Trump winning is a major loss. Instead build a better party instead of complaining.

    Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

    Biden or Trump winning is a major loss.

    They aren't equal. They're both shit, but they aren't equal. And I don't know about you, but I'd rather keep my right to vote, which is under threat thanks to the likes of Trump.

    Instead build a better party instead of complaining.

    Not seeing anything you've built. All I see is you complaining about Biden and Trump.

    If you want better, we need electoral reform. Our current system is mathematically biased against third parties.

    emeralddawn45 ,

    How do you think you get electoral reform? Because the democrats sure as hell are never gonna give it to you if you keep voting for their garbage bottom of the barrel candidates. American politics really are a shit show, you're trying to act like you're the reasonable one but getting so damn belligerent.

    Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

    How do you think you get electoral reform?

    Mass protests, general strikes, voting in progressives that actually stand a chance, etc.

    Because the democrats sure as hell are never gonna give it to you

    I know they won't, which is why you vote in the primaries.

    You know who sure as hell are never gonna give it to you? Third party candidates. You can't make reform if you don't get voted into office in the first place.

    you keep voting for their garbage bottom of the barrel candidates.

    Genrrallt you don't get bottom of the barrel candidates if you actually work to put forth good candidates in the primaries. And a bottom of the barrel democrat with always be better than an outright fascist republican.

    you’re trying to act like you’re the reasonable one but getting so damn belligerent.

    Hey, if you don't like how I'm responding, maybe don't start with saying things like

    • "build a better party instead of complaining."

    Practice what you speak.

    emeralddawn45 ,

    Name one time when you havent gotten a bottom of the barrel candidate? Look what they did to my boy Bernie. He wasn't even ideal but at least he had a shot and the democrats you're praising tanked him. They're playing you, intentionally holding up an awful boogeyman constantly and saying "if you don't vote for our piece of shit we're gonna give you the bigger piece of shit." The only way to win is not to play their game. Maybe if they lose enough voters they'll get the message but they sure as hell won't if you keep letting them win.

    Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

    Name one time when you havent gotten a bottom of the barrel candidate?

    Summer Lee

    I've voted for her at least 4 times now to get her into office and keep her there throughout the last few primaries and generals.

    Look what they did to my boy Bernie.

    I am well aware, and I'm pissee off about that too. It should have been Bernie for the last 8 years.

    He wasn’t even ideal but at least he had a shot and the democrats you’re praising tanked him.

    I think you don't understand where I am coming from. In no way am I praising the democrats that tanked him.

    They’re playing you, intentionally holding up an awful boogeyman constantly and saying “if you don’t vote for our piece of shit we’re gonna give you the bigger piece of shit.”

    Yeah, I know they're using it to their advantage. It shitty as fuck, and a direct result of our electoral system. They know that third parties aren't viable due to the mathematical requirement of the spoiler effect being a part of our current system. So they use it to their advantage.

    But there is the thing, under Trump, we may lose our right to vote. We might end up seeing a true dictatorship. He's already floating the idea of a second Jan 6th.

    I'd rather live in the current corporate run dystopia than an outright fascist version called Gilead.

    The only way to win is not to play their game.

    Yeah, I'm really going to feel like I'm winning when I'm lined up against a wall under the next Trump administration.

    Maybe if they lose enough voters they’ll get the message but they sure as hell won’t if you keep letting them win.

    The Biden campaign managers know they're losing voters to this shit, they aren't that stupid. They're gambling that the status quo will land them the most votes. It's fucking stupid, but they clearly don't care about losing votes to this issue.

    goldenlocks ,

    Summer Lee

    The one who just voted for the military industrial complex with H.R.8035?

    I am well aware, and I’m pissee off about that too. It should have been Bernie for the last 8 years.

    You continue to vote for a party that has a rigged primary with super delegates.

    I’d rather live in the current corporate run dystopia than an outright fascist version called Gilead.

    Remember you consented to this.

    Olgratin_Magmatoe , (edited )

    The one who just voted for the military industrial complex with H.R.8035?

    The request was for "not bottom of the barrel", not perfect. If you're looking for a perfect politician, you've defined an impossible task.

    You continue to vote for a party that has a rigged primary with super delegates.

    No. I vote against the worst, the party openly embracing fascism.

    Remember you consented to this.

    I'd rather consent to corporate run dystopia than fascism.

    Meanwhile you're consenting to fascism with your choice to throw away your vote. You do not have the high ground here.

    goldenlocks ,

    The request was for “not bottom of the barrel”, not perfect. If you’re looking for a perfect politician, you’ve defined an impossible task.

    We have different standards. I couldn't live with myself voting for billions to Raytheon and Boeing like you do.

    No. I vote against the worst, the party openly embracing fascism.

    You could do that without voting for "corporate run dystopia" by voting green party.

    I’d rather consent to corporate run dystopia than fascism.

    I'm consenting to neither.

    Meanwhile you’re consenting to fascism with your choice to throw away your vote. You do not have the high ground here.

    Nope. You just admitted that you are. This is how voting works lmao. I'm literally not by casting a vote against it, and you are.

    Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

    We have different standards. I couldn’t live with myself voting for billions to Raytheon and Boeing like you do.

    Voting for a politician is not an open agreement with every action they take. I didn't vote for billions to go to war manufacturers. I voted against Trump.

    You could do that without voting for “corporate run dystopia” by voting green party.

    Thus splitting the vote and landing us in Gilead, no thanks. I don't want to get killed by the state for being LGBTQ+

    I’m consenting to neither.

    I’m literally not by casting a vote against it, and you are.

    Gonna straight up steal from a different user.

    "Voting does sort of make you complicit, honestly.

    But guess what? Not voting also makes you complicit. So does voting in a way that has no chance of having an effect based on the current rules.

    Basically, existing as an eligible voter, at least in a country where voting isn't rigged (so like, Russians are off the hook here, for example) makes you complicit in your government's actions.

    That's kind of a big point of being in a democratic society - we are all, every one of us, responsible for the actions of our government.

    And if you don't like that responsibility, I get it, I totally sympathize, because I agree. I hate that responsibility, especially cause I know damn well I'm not qualified to make those decisions. But I still am responsible, and pretending I'm not doesn't change that."

    https://lemmy.world/comment/9735774

    So bullshit. I'm assuming you voted 3rd party in 2016. You chose to vote in a way that had no chance of having any effect to stave off Trump. So you are complicit in Trump. You consented to Trump. And thanks to people like you, we are now losing abortion access. The SCOTUS is now openly debating if a president can have political opponents killed. The road of fascism we are heading down is directly a result of people limply throwing pissing their vote into the wind.

    goldenlocks ,

    Voting for a politician is not an open agreement with every action they take. I didn’t vote for billions to go to war manufacturers.

    You literally did, and are planning to in November.

    I voted against Trump.

    Same here, by voting for the green party.

    Thus splitting the vote and landing us in Gilead, no thanks. I don’t want to get killed by the state for being LGBTQ+

    Nope. Most green voters I've convinced have been non-voters. They are the biggest voting block.

    That’s kind of a big point of being in a democratic society - we are all, every one of us, responsible for the actions of our government.

    They just described why I vote green party.

    And if you don’t like that responsibility, I get it, I totally sympathize, because I agree. I hate that responsibility, especially cause I know damn well I’m not qualified to make those decisions. But I still am responsible, and pretending I’m not doesn’t change that.

    Yes, that's why we're responsible for building a better party, very simple to understand.

    So bullshit. I’m assuming you voted 3rd party in 2016. You chose to vote in a way that had no chance of having any effect to stave off Trump. So you are complicit in Trump. You consented to Trump. And thanks to people like you, we are now losing abortion access. The SCOTUS is now openly debating if a president can have political opponents killed. The road of fascism we are heading down is directly a result of people limply throwing pissing their vote into the wind.

    I'm proud I did not consent to Trump or Clinton in 2016, you did. Green have a chance because Dems and Republicans are terrible. You're just a scared, disenfranchised little child that can't make your own decisions. I am responsible for improving my government, which is why I'm building a better option in the Green party. You do nothing but whine and submit to fascism, pathetic.

    LengAwaits ,
    @LengAwaits@lemmy.world avatar

    Belittling people is rarely a good dialectical tactic, and speaks to your own level of maturity. If this is the type of discourse employed by green party supporters and campaign volunteers, I'll be staying away.

    Based on what I've seen of your post history here, you're a combative ideologue who's not interested in building anything other than ill-will, with seemingly zero desire to talk about anything that doesn't give you an opportunity to aggressively proselytize. You seem to turn every conversation you have into an abrasive display of your moral superiority, repeating the same talking points ad nauseum while abandoning any points that shift out of your favor.

    Perhaps you hope that you can activate non-voters with your accusatory, venomous, divisive rhetoric, but I struggle to see how that strategy will be beneficial should a Green candidate make it to the Presidency. Coalition building with the Democratic party will absolutely be necessary to get Green legislation through congress early on; It seems short-sighted to belittle and alienate those who vote closest to your interests on the political spectrum by equating them with those who vote furthest from your interests. Ideals are important, but game theory underpins all political action and must be considered.

    Further, RCV does not require the Green party to be implemented. Many states have been experimenting with RCV (and other alternative voting systems) without leadership from the Green party (source). That trend has been picking up steam across the nation.

    goldenlocks ,

    Belittling people is rarely a good dialectical tactic, and speaks to your own level of maturity.

    Only in response to their claims, I am not "belittling" them, they made those statements themselves that they consent to "corporate facism", I do not.

    If this is the type of discourse employed by green party supporters and campaign volunteers, I’ll be staying away.

    That's fine, I'm targeting non-voters.

    Based on what I’ve seen of your post history here, you’re a combative ideologue who’s not interested in building anything other than ill-will, with seemingly zero desire to talk about anything that doesn’t give you an opportunity to aggressively proselytize.

    That is necessary considering how heavy handed pro-capitalist propaganda is. What would you like to discuss?

    You seem to turn every conversation you have into an abrasive display of your moral superiority, repeating the same talking points ad nauseum while abandoning any points that shift out of your favor.

    The truth is hard to accept, and I am not ashamed of being against fascist corporate control of our economy, regardless of how hard you try to make me conceed that. Now provide an example of me abandoing any point that has been "out of my favor".

    Perhaps you hope that you can activate non-voters with your accusatory, venomous, divisive rhetoric, but I struggle to see how that strategy will be beneficial should a Green candidate make it to the Presidency.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voter-turnout-2018-2022/ There is plenty, in fact it is often a majority.

    Coalition building with the Democratic party will absolutely be necessary to get Green legislation through congress early on; It seems short-sighted to belittle and alienate those who vote closest to your interests on the political spectrum by equating them with those who vote furthest from your interests. Ideals are important, but game theory underpins all political action and must be considered.

    The Democratic party will not be there to offer a coalition. They spend millions trying to prevent Greens from even being on the ballot. Your "game theory" is wrong considering you used nonfactual inputs. The only path towards progress is rejecting all pro-capitalist actors, which will more than make up for it with support from the poor working class.

    Further, RCV does not require the Green party to be implemented. Many states have been experimenting with RCV (and other alternative voting systems) without leadership from the Green party (source). That trend has been picking up steam across the nation.

    Gaslighting at it finest, I never claimed the Green party was necessary for RCV to be implemented, only the Democrats will fight against it since it hurts their chances against third parties. The trend has been by ballot initiatives, not Democratic legislation.

    LengAwaits , (edited )
    @LengAwaits@lemmy.world avatar

    👍

    Let's discuss this:
    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/43a44e6e-e649-48f5-8f2e-7fa2e2a2ed65.jpeg

    goldenlocks ,

    What of it? They asked for an elephant in a closet

    Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

    Only in response to their claims, I am not “belittling” them, they made those statements themselves that they consent to “corporate facism”, I do not.

    You straight up called me a dumbass because I disagreed with you.

    Yeah, get the fuck out of here. /u/LengAwaits is right, if this is what the green party stands for, fuck off.

    goldenlocks ,

    You straight up called me a dumbass because I disagreed with you.

    You said that yourself.

    Yeah, get the fuck out of here. /u/LengAwaits is right, if this is what the green party stands for, fuck off.

    Don't want your help, targeting non voters not brainwashed liberals.

    Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

    You said that yourself.

    Go gaslight someone else.

    https://lemmy.world/comment/9837122

    goldenlocks ,

    I’d rather live in the current corporate run dystopia than an outright fascist version called Gilead.

    This you? You did say it yourself.

    goldenlocks ,

    I’d rather keep my right to vote, which is under threat thanks to the likes of Trump.

    Why didn't Trump use these magical powers he supposedly has to take away our right to vote?

    Not seeing anything you’ve built. All I see is you complaining about Biden and Trump.

    https://www.gp.org/ Where is yours? What have you done to oppose the rich controlling our government? You consent to it.

    If you want better, we need electoral reform. Our current system is mathematically biased against third parties.

    Yes, that's why I vote for candidates that support ranked choice voting.

    You vote for candidates that oppose ranked choice voting.

    See how you have no solutions here?

    Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

    Why didn’t Trump use these magical powers he supposedly has to take away our right to vote?

    Because it took them time to rig the SCOTUS.

    https://www.gp.org/ Where is yours?

    Yeah, a party that has won exactly zero presidential elections what a party you've built. How proud you must be.

    What have you done to oppose the rich controlling our government? You consent to it.

    A man abducts you and gives you to choices:

    • Have sex with him "willingly"

    • He kills you, and has sex with your corpse

    Choosing the first option in no way is consensual.

    Yes, that’s why I vote for candidates that support ranked choice voting.

    Good for you.

    You vote for candidates that oppose ranked choice voting.

    Factually incorrect.

    goldenlocks ,

    Because it took them time to rig the SCOTUS.

    Exactly what law do you expect them to pass? This is all Dems fault for being so garbage that Republicans even have a chance.

    Yeah, a party that has won exactly zero presidential elections what a party you’ve built. How proud you must be.

    You have to vote for them to win dumbass.

    A man abducts you and gives you to choices:
    Have sex with him “willingly”
    He kills you, and has sex with your corpse
    Choosing the first option in no way is consensual.

    You are truly deranged. In this comparison you could choose neither and vote green party.

    Factually incorrect.

    Biden supports RCV? Which Dem?

    Olgratin_Magmatoe , (edited )

    Exactly what law do you expect them to pass? This is all Dems fault for being so garbage that Republicans even have a chance.

    They are openly debating if the president can have political opponents killed. Quit living under a rock.

    You have to vote for them to win dumbass

    No shit.

    But I am not an imbecile who thinks they can magic away the spoiler effect. That's you.

    You are truly deranged. In this comparison you could choose neither and vote green party.

    Voting third party is equal to choosing the second option.

    Biden supports RCV? Which Dem?

    Get a grip. You've done no better to get RCV implemented. Your votes get you nothing, because you vote for candidates that mathematically cannot win thanks to the inherent biases of FPTP voting.

    And RCV isn't even that good of an option. STAR and approval are superior.

    goldenlocks , (edited )

    They are openly debating if the president can have political opponents killed. Quit living under a rock.

    Hilarious. The rich have you figured out and are playing you like a fiddle.

    No shit.

    But I am not an imbecile who thinks they can magic away the spoiler effect. That’s you.

    The literal only way is voting, it's so simple it's hilarious.

    Voting third party is equal to choosing the second option.

    Nope.

    Get a grip. You’ve done no better to get RCV implemented. Your votes get you nothing, because you vote for candidates that mathematically cannot win thanks to the inherent biases of FPTP voting.

    LOL so people who had power and proved to you they will do nothing to get RCV passed. Greens can mathematically win, you just vote for them.

    And RCV isn’t even that good of an option. STAR and approval are superior.

    Yes the Dems will surely do this for you LOL

    ty to make a sensible sentence.

    Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

    Hilarious. The rich how you figured out and are playing you like a fiddle.

    Have you passed the fifth grade? I honestly can't tell given your inability to make a sensible sentence.

    The literal only way is voting, it’s so simple it’s hilarious.

    Voting isn't magic, stop treating it like so.

    Nope.

    It objectively is:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_effect

    https://fairvote.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Blog-Image-Template-New.png

    Greens can mathematically win, you just vote for them.

    No they cannot. The spoiler effect is an inherent problem to our electoral system. You cannot just magic away systemic problems.

    goldenlocks ,

    The rich have you figured out and are playing you like a fiddle.

    What do you not understand here?

    Voting isn’t magic, stop treating it like so.

    It's incredibly simple. You do not understand even the basic definition of democracy.

    It objectively is:

    Not if you vote for them and gather support instead of whining like a baby.

    No they cannot. The spoiler effect is an inherent problem to our electoral system. You cannot just magic away systemic problems.

    Then change it, get over yourself. I am helping fix this problem by voting against it, you are not, very simple.

    Lightsong ,

    People should do that... After this election that is.

    goldenlocks ,

    Hilarious. Where have liberals been after 2016? 2020? The time is now, and you are trying your best to maintain the control of our government by the rich.

    Lightsong ,

    And risk Trump presidency? No thanks.

    goldenlocks ,

    You in 2028 after doing nothing for 4 years: "And risk (insert Republican here) presidency? No thanks."

    While the country goes to shit.

    dream_weasel ,

    I thought last I heard about this that the bills for this weren't usually called for payment unless you were suing them for something. Could be mistaken

    RunawayFixer ,

    It's state dependant.

    This article has a few Connecticut examples of the cruelty of the system and some background, from before Connecticut mostly abolished the pay to stay practice (thanks to democrats): https://apnews.com/article/crime-prisons-lawsuits-connecticut-074a8f643766e155df58d2c8fbc7214c

    So apart from coercing inmates to do for profit work for pennies (other countries would call it slave labour), some inmates also get to pay for the privilege on top of that.

    Here's a more comprehensive article on how inmates and their families are being milked in the USA : https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/americas-dystopian-incarceration-system-pay-stay-behind-bars

    MonkderDritte ,

    Obligatory Incarceration in Real Numbers

    samus12345 ,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    I just heard about that for the first time a few days ago, and I couldn't believe it was real. As horrible as I think the United States of Ferenginar is, they always manage to surprise me and be worse.

    HawlSera , (edited )

    I have to keep asking people not to compare American Capitalists to the Ferengi

    The Ferengi have a rule book dictating the ways they are and aren't allowed to rip you off, American Capitalists would call that level of honesty and integrity Far-Left Socialism

    samus12345 ,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    The Ferengi are also perfectly happy to break any and all of the rules if it means more profit - that's probably one of the rules.

    knife ,

    There's nothing more dangerous than an honest business man.

    samus12345 ,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    Does being honest about being dishonest count? Probably.

    Wogi ,

    Most of the rules have a counter, opposite rule. IE, war is good for business, peace is good for business.

    samus12345 ,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    I think they're "War is profitable" and "Peace is profitable". Which I guess isn't really contradictory. They're profitable in different ways.

    Wogi ,

    It's literally "good for business" on both

    samus12345 ,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    You're right. Still the same thing, good for business in different ways.

    jpeps ,

    On release: "you've paid your debt to society, now pay your debt to the prison!"

    reverendsteveii ,

    not sure which ones, but at least one charges you per day for the length of your sentence even if you're let out early

    Cypher19 ,

    How is this not considered cruel or unusual punishment?

    JohnDClay ,

    Because it's common not unusual?

    LemmyKnowsBest ,

    It's cruel but it's not unusual.

    LemmyFeed ,

    🎵 it's not unusual.... 🎵

    LemmyKnowsBest ,

    ... 🎵 to be loved by anyone 🎵

    ObsidianZed ,

    Lazy criminals just need to get a job.

    /s

    CCF_100 ,

    What do they do if the incarcerated people are unable to pay the fee? Do they just let the debt add up? That's awful...

    LemmyKnowsBest ,

    Counties apparently sue people and employ wage garnishment to get back the money that majority of people obviously cannot pay back. For the rest of their lives until they commit suicide (or die naturally and peacefully with the sword of damocles hanging over their heads).

    LemmyFeed ,

    Sounds like good incentive to not have a normal tax paying job and rather maintain under the table and/or illegal ways of making money.

    Varyk OP ,

    That Rutgers article says that they literally take people with a debt to court, or they take money from your wages while you're working, assuming of course that you can find a job after you get out.

    FreakinSteve ,

    This is what conservatives wanted.
    This is what Democrats wanted.
    This is what capitalists wanted.
    America is a fucking authoritarian shithole. It has no concept at all what freedom is, and never has. All of that "freedom" shit is a bald faced fucking lie.

    And now some asshole raised in some Appalachian shithole is gonna stomp in here and try to tell everyone that America is great because he served in Afghanistan and if you hate America move

    ADTJ ,

    You think this is bad, we recently had a high profile case in the UK finally overturn a law where people who were found to have been wrongfully imprisoned had fees deducted from their compensation to pay the prison service for their food and accommodation.

    Imagine spending years of your life in prison on a false conviction and then finding out you have to pay the government for the privilege.

    FreakinSteve ,

    I am not surprised, as the UK is who taught the world the concept of ownership and financial enslavement. The US is the eager scion of such pedigree

    funkless_eck ,

    hey, the uk has taught the world other things too

    like how to make concentration camps

    Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

    Don't forget, the U.S. has had some fun lessons to teach others. Like there was that time when the U.S. taught Germany how to make gas chambers and use them on "lower races".

    hOmE oF ThE fReE

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