L3s Mod ,
@L3s@lemmy.world avatar

Too many rule 3 breaking comments, locking this post. Let's be excellent to eachother please!

ikidd ,
@ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

ITT:

image

kandoh ,

I obviously have issues with his actions in '16

But they were going after him for releasing the footage of the US gunning down civilians. Not his actions during the election.

sunzu ,

Yeah but the election shit really resonated with the voting public!

TrickDacy ,

Just goes to show if you're an actual good guy, you get the shaft (Snowden), but if you're a rapist who repeatedly helps fascists, you have hope.

commie ,

a rapist who repeatedly helps fascists

you might even be elected vice president, and one day, president, too!

TrickDacy ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

    •
    commie ,

    i'm talking about biden.

    TrickDacy ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

    •
    commie ,

    no both sides: i'm talking about biden sexually assaulting tara reid, supporting israel and other fascist regimes, then becoming vice president and now president.

    TrickDacy ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

    •
    TheDarksteel94 ,

    I wonder if that will mean anything for David McBride's sentence. Probably not, because I assume the Australian government has ulterior motives behind bringing Assange home, especially with how corrupt it is in many places. But one can hope.

    0x0 ,

    WikiLeaks was churning along fine and doing actual useful work in relative anonymity until Mr Assange's ego decided WikiLeaks needed a figurehead, painting a target on his back - you reap what you sow.

    paddirn ,

    After living 7.5 years in an Ecuadorian embassy, I wonder if he feels like that portion was all a waste of time, going to those lengths to avoid extradition. Though maybe the timing worked in his favor in this case, given its been years since Wikileaks was relevant, whereas had he been extradited years ago he might’ve be faced a harsher situation.

    Vipsu ,
    @Vipsu@lemmy.world avatar

    Hopefully he can safely return to his home country and take a long deserved rest from this all.
    It'll probably take a decade or more to recover mentally from all the shit he has gone through.

    I just hope he takes his time to recover and passes the wikileaks torch as all the accumulated resentment and paranoia will probably take a while to shed off. Going all out on anti-american frenzy on social media and whatnot would likely lead to undesirable outcome for him in public eye.

    I’m wondering if it was worth the sacrifice. The governments and tech companies are spying more than ever on everyone.

    Snowden revelations and Wikileaks have made E2EE pretty much a standard for most internet services. People are also far less naive when it comes to online privacy which has spawned bunch of regulations like GDPR and bunch of investigations on how well services and products handle information security.

    stoy , (edited )

    He is a dick, who used to be important for wikileaks but has kept tergeting specific angles for his leaks, which seems to indicate pushing a political agenda, which reduces trust in him and his platform.

    The work he started is too important to leave in his care.

    Example: During the DNC email leak, Wikileaks was clearly in a rush to publish the documents without removing credit card information and social security numbers, this is just sloppy.

    Assange also worked to draw out the release of documents to increase Wikileaks publicity, this went on far enough that he publicly made announcements of releases that never came.

    Wikileaks also published evidence that the DNC was behind the killing of Seth Rich, a DC staffer that Assange alluded to have given him the emails, this evidence came from a PI who has freely admitted not having seen any emails between Wikileaks and Seth not having seen the laptop containing the emails, or even having spoken with someone who had. The PI in question is a known FOX contributer.

    Assange also seems to have weirdly close ties to Russia, he only had his morning talkshow broadcast on RT, supposedly they were the only ones to take up his show for syndication.

    When he was first exiled, he requested that the Russian security service FSB should handle his security detail.

    Today, the largest sponsor of Wikileaks is the Russian Government.

    All of this speaks to Wikileaks not being the supreme beacon of free speach, but rather part of the Russian propaganda machine.

    I don't think it started this way, Assange and Wikileaks probably started with the best of intentions, but the reality of our society came into play and Assange/Wikileaks sold thier credibillity for money from the Russian government.

    groet ,

    While I agree on the facts I want to offer a slightly different (possible) conclusion: a organisation like wikileaks needs resources and supporters. If they are targeted by all the "good guy"-countries and the only one willing to support them is "evil guy" Russia, then they are not in a position to resist. They chose to compromise their integrity instead of just not existing.

    If the western world wants a whistleblower/leaks organisation that follows journalistic integrity and ethics, they need to fund it even if it leaks their own internal documents.

    stoy ,

    Oh, absolutely!

    I get why they accepted the money, but they doesn't seem to have accepted the consequences yet.

    And I don't have an answer as to how to solve the issue.

    We need an organization like Wikileaks, but no one will want to fund it, as they don't want their skeletons out of the closet.

    The only way I could see it working would be if someone inherits shitload of money, and funds the organization directly, else there are allways conflicts of interests.

    Neato ,
    @Neato@ttrpg.network avatar

    If the only people willing to give you money are fascists, don't take the fucking money.

    gaylord_fartmaster ,

    I also take money from possible fascists because I need it to survive. It's called having a job.

    Neato ,
    @Neato@ttrpg.network avatar

    Choosing to take money and work for Putin is quite a bit different than having a salary from a corporation. Equating the two is apologizing for dictators.

    autonomoususer ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

    •
    stoy ,

    Nothing, I did not realize that was required to have an oppinion.

    autonomoususer , (edited )

    Like you would do any better.

    stoy ,

    Ok, then don't give a shit.

    Apollo42 ,

    What US war crimes have you exposed?

    autonomoususer ,

    Who wrote an essay complaining?

    stoy ,

    Who wrote an essay complaining?

    Who contributed to the discussion?

    FTFY

    autonomoususer ,

    Disinformation, stop trying to brainwash us. Again, when have you ever exposed a US war crime?

    stoy ,

    Neither have you, what's your point?

    autonomoususer , (edited )

    Who commented first? Stop trolling.

    glimse ,

    Why are you replying in the first place? Was there something you were trying to accomplish or do you just get off to downvotes?

    UlfKirsten ,

    Don’t feed the troll

    Passerby6497 ,

    Trolling

    autonomoususer , (edited )

    No ones begging for your attention.

    Passerby6497 ,

    Nothing of value was lost.

    Apollo42 ,

    I'm sorry, but unless you exposed any US war crimes I'm not sure I can take you seriously.

    autonomoususer , (edited )

    You won't distract us.

    FrostyTheDoo ,

    Hey get a load of this guy, can't even expose one lousy US war crime. He's basically complicit

    fluxion ,

    Less excuses, more exposing

    stoy ,

    I did buy a 100-400mm telezoom lens for my Lumix S5, I can expose some fantastic photos of planes, animals and similar stuff...

    fluxion ,

    I'll allow it

    frezik ,

    Alrighty then.

    unzips

    pirat , 
    unzip: cannot find or open private_part1.zip
    Vipsu , (edited )
    @Vipsu@lemmy.world avatar

    Keep in mind that during the US Presidential Election of 2016 Assange had already spent 3~ years living in the Embassy of Ecuador in London.
    Add in how the United states wanted him extradited to serve potentially life in prison and was probably using all sorts of surveilance and information gathering methods against him and wikileaks to prevent and mitigate any future leaks.

    Now when you're facing an opponent known for its power to assasinate world leaders and powerful political figures, power to spy, hack and survey even their close allies for years, influence other goverments and politicians through blackmail, extortion and economic means you're bound to get a bit stressed and go a bit paranoid. When it comes to Russia the oppinions towards them where a lot more favorable in 2010-2022 as most of Europe wanted to keep access to affordable oil and gas. Meanwhile Anti-imperialist sentiment against US was probably at it's alltime high with the War in Afghanistan and Libya.

    Wikileaks was never really a beacon of free speech its always been more of a platform where people can leak information about goverments and other powerful individuals or organizations doing bunch of shady or downright evil stuff behind our back. These often offer rare glimpse behind the scenes allowing us to be little less blind when voting during whathever election comes next.

    TranscendentalEmpire ,

    Wikileaks was never really a beacon of free speech its always been more of a platform where people can leak information about goverments and other powerful individuals or organizations doing bunch of shady or downright evil stuff behind our back. These often offer rare glimpse behind the scenes allowing us to be little less blind when voting during whather elections comes next.

    When WikiLeaks first came about it's original goal was aimed at leaking information about authoritarian governments, primarily China and some countries in the Middle East. It was pretty big news at the time because assange had wrangled together a team of some pretty high profile Journalist and privacy tech people.

    However, most of those people were never really involved in the organization, and were mainly utilized as a marketing scheme. The rest slowly left the organization as works in their fields within WikiLeaks stagnated, or left over security and leadership concerns.

    Imo Assange has always been a duplicitous attention seeker. However, if that were illegal, pretty much everyone involved in media would be thrown in a cell. I think his biggest failures that should tarnish his public image is his handling of the leaks. Him rushing to release information against the advise of his security experts, information that hadn't been properly vetted to protect the whistle blowers from prosecution.

    Multiple people have had their lives ruined because he didn't take the time and effort to protect his sources. And not because they didn't have the ability to, or lacked the proper protocols, but because Julian didn't care so long as his name got air time.

    ebc ,

    I fail to see how that's relevant here. The guy isn't a US national and wasn't in the US when he committed his alleged "crime".

    He has absolutely no duty towards the US and is 100% free to associate with whoever he wants, and yes, even Russia.

    US has no standing whatsoever in this situation, and it's a travesty of international law that Sweden and the UK even entertained the idea of extraditing him. The response should've been "go sue the American who actually committed that crime on American soil. Oh wait, you've already convicted her, and she's already out after serving her sentence? WTF are you going on about then?"

    kn0wmad1c ,
    @kn0wmad1c@programming.dev avatar

    The connection from Assange to Russia was laid out in the OP. Russia had a vested interest in skewing and interfering with US politics in 2016.

    There's the relevancy you failed to see.

    ebc ,

    Even if Assange himself was openly interfering in US politics, how is that relevant? If he isn't a US person, and he's not on US soil, why would he be bound by US law? US law isn't universal law, you know.

    sunzu ,

    People don't like the guy, that's enough jurisdiction for them!

    ebc ,

    From this thread, looks like you're right, sadly...

    sunzu ,

    I can't tell if we got bots/shills but these assange threads are getting swamped with comments and voting.

    Not sure if this real public sentiment or somebody is setting it for this "sensitive" topic.

    Nobody can really properly state their position beyond, that guy is a rapist and russian asset... seems like an op tbh

    Same old smear attempts that US has been using for a decade.

    stoy ,

    The point is that he had/has an interest in keeping Russia happy, that means that everything WL has published since taking Russia's money is probably only to the detriment of the west.

    That doesn't mean that WL publishes false/fake information, however true propaganda is still propaganda and serves a political agenda.

    By allying themselves with Russia, WL has made it clear that they are only really focusing on the west's transgressions, and will mostly ignore Russia's.

    They are no longer impartial activists, they have taken sides, but still claim to be impartial.

    That is the issue

    commie ,

    true propaganda is still propaganda and serves a political agenda.

    oh that we could convince liberals this is true.

    IsThisAnAI ,

    Fuck assange. Your hate for the US has you supporting an asshole that works for Russia.

    autonomoususer , (edited )

    They spend more on this than saying the US kills its own people.

    ganksy ,
    @ganksy@lemmy.world avatar

    What elections have you meddled?

    Neato ,
    @Neato@ttrpg.network avatar

    Whataboutism, everyone.

    autonomoususer ,

    Troll

    CyberDine ,

    If anybody needs a catch up on the facts of this case:

    https://apnews.com/article/assange-wikileaks-plea-deal-39b72e6be6a775dae9b008728a46e595

    Alphane_Moon , (edited )
    @Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world avatar

    He'll be back to supporting russian imperialism and working with russian security services. Even more people will end up in russian concentration camps (where they have it way worse than he did in British prison) because of his actions.

    The guy literally worked for russia today and admitted that he had a personal policy of never criticizing russia in a substantive manner.

    autonomoususer , (edited )

    Do they really think this hides the US kills its own people but they call him the traitor?

    Anyolduser ,

    Nobody likes a propagandist.

    Less so when it's low effort.

    autonomoususer ,

    Agreed, it's everywhere on these political posts.

    Anyolduser ,

    No, no. I'm referring specifically to you.

    IcePee ,

    I wonder what he had to give up in the plea deal.

    hellothere ,

    Or, who.

    Wootz ,

    Asking the real question.

    sonovebitch ,

    Assange has been held in [...] Prison on the outskirts of London for five years, and he previously spent seven years in self-exile at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London [...] until his asylum was withdrawn and he was forcibly carried out of the embassy and arrested in April 2019.

    12 years... fuck...

    AtHeartEngineer ,
    @AtHeartEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    Good for him, I hope he is ok

    Zoldyck , (edited )

    He's a traitor, and because of him many people died. I hope he's not ok.
    Edit: downvote me all you want, but that won't change the fact that Assange gave very sensitive information to regimes and dictators that has gotten innocent people murdered.

    unexposedhazard ,

    Literal bot. You should try reducing your daily uranium intake.

    Zoldyck ,

    Not a bot. Assange helped regimes and dictators to kill US informants. Innocent people in Syria and Belarus for example got murdered because of the information Assange gave them.
    Look it up if you don't believe me.

    Alphane_Moon ,
    @Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world avatar

    Zoldyck is not lying.

    Look up Assange and his connection with Israel Shamir, who helped Lukashenko's regime in Belarus target opposition activists.

    This wasn't a mistake, he knew what he was doing.

    People just buy into the PR around him (also spread by security services in russia and not only) without taking a critical look at his actions.

    Do better!

    Zoldyck ,

    Exactly.

    unexposedhazard , (edited )

    Sure he had some shady connections, but all accusations of actual wrongdoing supposedly comitted by Assange himself were brought forward, sourced and verified by the same US authorities, that employed or protected the criminals he exposed, which makes them basically worthless.

    What he actually DID do without a doubt is do the people of this planet a massive service by releasing proof of countless warcrimes, spying and other illegal activities by US agencies and individuals.

    Alphane_Moon ,
    @Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world avatar

    Sure he had some shady connections, but all accusations of actual wrongdoing supposedly comitted by Assange himself were brought forward, sourced and verified by the same US authorities, that employed or protected the criminals he exposed, which makes them basically worthless.

    Opposing the Lukashenko regime is being a criminal?

    I get tankies and right-wingers, they actually know what Assange is about.

    But allegedly well meaning people thinking that he is some sort messiah or saviour, that's what's sad.

    He is a genuine supporter of russian imperialism and he has no qualms with sending opposition activists to hellish prisons, all the while positioning himself as some sort of fighter against US imperialism.

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ab5a68ca-043e-43d6-80ca-0e41b53474a5.jpeg

    Former russia today employee, Julian Assange after British prison, Volodymyr Tsema-Bursov, Ukrainian POW, after 20 month in russian captivity.

    And Assange support the russian regime and enables what they do to captives.

    unexposedhazard ,

    Nah dude, your brain is cooked beyond saving if you blame Assange for what the russians decide to do with public information. Not even worth responding to this schizo level response tbh.

    pop ,

    Then prosecute him for that. But the US doesn't care about activists, does it? Why do you think US is after him specifically?

    What about, what about, what about?

    Post the actual proof rather than a link to a wikipedia article.

    You do BETTER.

    Alphane_Moon ,
    @Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world avatar

    The Wikipedia article is a good starting point if you wanted to actually get an alternative perspective.

    But you don't.

    pop ,

    Regurtitating the same talking points your government uses for people that reveal its atrocities are "bots" no matter how you spin it. There are tankie bots and you are a wankie bot.

    Tell us more about how revealing war crimes and global surveillance are traitors, bot.

    Zoldyck ,

    Try looking up the definition of the word bot. You might learn something today.

    IsThisAnAI ,

    "Everyone I disagree with is a bot" - you

    unexposedhazard ,

    Everyone that says "i hope hes not ok" is a bot - me

    Jakaan ,

    Traitor? To what country?

    gnuhaut ,

    Are you talking about the claim that he endangered CIA agents? That was just some bullshit they cooked up to get him on, and I don't think anybody even claimed that somebody actually died.

    Imagine thinking exposing the CIA should be a crime, because the poor small beans CIA agents need protection. Who wouldn't want to protect imperial blackmailers, hit men, weapons smugglers and death squad commanders?

    You are the traitor for siding with the oppressor.

    Alphane_Moon ,
    @Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world avatar

    You are the traitor for siding with the oppressor.

    Right supporting Lukashenko's regime is such a noble endeavour!

    Zoldyck ,

    Too many anarchists and tankies use Lemmy unfortunately.

    Vipsu ,
    @Vipsu@lemmy.world avatar

    Assange is a citizen of Australia and since The United States is known for spying on its allies the act of exposing US informants would be closer to serving ones own country than act of treason.

    Grimy ,

    The consequences of doing a bad thing are on the person doing it, not the whistle blower.

    If they wanted to keep their secrets, they should of made sure they weren't so fucking rough. Nobody would of leaked any files if those heli pilots were saving children instead of joking after killing them.

    pre ,
    @pre@fedia.io avatar

    @Zoldyck

    Bush, Trump, Clinton and Biden all got more innocent people killed than Julian. Their crimes all dwarf anything he is accused of let alone is guilty of. If you are not a literal bot, you have allowed yourself to be programmed by intelligence agencies into hating the man who exposed the crimes over the men who committed them.

    user134450 ,

    You might be interested to learn about a couple actual trained spies.
    guess what they were accused of?
    Treason is not what you think it is. Its a nice word to throw around when you are angry at someone but it has a very specific meaning.

    ebc ,

    Yes, but that's not treason. It could be treason if he was American, but he isn't.

    yamanii ,
    @yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

    Snowden is also considered a traitor, I really don't give a shit who the US says is a traitor. I only wish the worst for people working for 3 letter agencies.

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