nikaaa ,

Short question: how would they enforce that? What if I use some obscure messenger that nobody has ever heard of? What if I simply use telnet or netcat to send messages to other people?

calcopiritus ,

Telnet? Banned. You now need the EUs approval to use networking software. The only apps that any EU users can use that uses the network interface are those whitelisted by the EU.

That's the only way that this is enforceable. And still pretty easy to defeat, or are they gonna Linux too? Since Linux comes with the source code, anyone could recompile it removing the restriction.

It's just absurd.

ipkpjersi ,

I think these things aren't designed to stop everyone, just most people, non-technical people - not people like us who know how to work around limitations etc.

It still sucks though, and it's a stupid idea.

calcopiritus ,

Criminal would just use the communication method that is encrypted, because it will be known as such. Just like nowadays everyone knows that if you want to pirate you use torrent. And if you don't wanna be tracked you use VPNs and tor.

This will hurt the dumbest of criminals and all the non-criminals.

gravitywell ,

Keylogging or screen recording basically.

neclimdul ,

Looks at gdpr
Looks at new law
Looks at gdpr
Looks at security questionnaires from EU companies
Looks at new law

Well past time to take up farming.

OozingPositron ,
@OozingPositron@feddit.cl avatar

Won't somebody think of le childrun!!!!11!1!1!!

Zink ,

Feels like a strange move, from an American who is used to seeing the EU do things that should put our government to shame.

Are they trying to get the US to join the EU? Lol

Treczoks , (edited )

And the reasoning? As always Terrorists, pedophile, criminals, etc. Guess what: If those guys have not learned yet to make a big detour around official chat apps, they deserve getting caught. My bet is, those people already have their own secured means of communication. Maybe they have their own encrypted app, or they have a forum somewhere in the Darknet, whatever. But the chance that this new law will catch anything worthwhile is practically nil.

Jocker ,

May I also suggest surveiling every knife in every kitchen, since people historically had killed other people with knife

neeeeDanke , (edited )

Two German states are about to attempt introducing a law at the federal level banning all knives with blades longer then 6cm (~~1.5~2.3 in) from beeing carried in publicin public.

Source in german:
https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland-pfalz/messer-verbot-gesetz-bundesrat-rlp-100.html

kurcatovium ,
@kurcatovium@lemm.ee avatar

You have quite a big inches in Germany, my friend.

MigratingtoLemmy ,

Let's see them deal with PGP-encrypted email lol

zyratoxx , (edited )
@zyratoxx@lemm.ee avatar

Positive news: at least Germany will reject it, let's hope more members follow their lead

According to [German Federal Minister of the Interior] Nancy Faeser, it is appropriate to "hold online platforms accountable so that depictions of abuse are discovered, deleted and the perpetrators prosecuted". However, if the current proposal remains, the representative of the Federal Republic of Germany would have to vote no, said the SPD politician. "Because we must take targeted action and maintain the balance of the rule of law. Encrypted private communications of millions of people must not be monitored without cause.

https://www.heise.de/en/news/Chat-control-Germany-will-vote-against-current-proposal-9770051.html

neeeeDanke ,
MonkderDritte ,

Yet again? Salamitaktik?

Pringles ,

This law, if it were to pass, is 100% guaranteed to be shot down by the European courts for invasion of privacy.

thisNotMyName ,

Unfortunately the court wasn't that strict in it's most recent decision regarding data retention (different lead judge combined with the endless tries from the politics)

CrowAirbrush ,

Can we just send 200 billion fake messages every millisecond to overload them constantly? Forcing them to pull out.

ByteWelder ,
@ByteWelder@lemmy.ml avatar

The scanning is done on your device. You could theoretically only overload the CSAM reporting feature if such a thing will exist.

Brickardo ,

Suppose the bill goes through. Is there any reliable alternative for privately communicating? Asking for myself.

neumast ,

Wow, did you just really confess as an child porn distributor/consumer? Who else would need such an communication alternative?

0x0 ,

Distributed/Federated apps probably? Session, Briar...

Overlay networks like Tor, I2P and Hyphanet (ex-Freenet)?

Randelung ,

... This is a really bad time for a "I am Spartacus" thing.

0x0 ,

Distributed/Federated apps probably? Session, Briar...

Overlay networks like Tor, I2P and Hyphanet (ex-Freenet)?

EngineerGaming ,
@EngineerGaming@feddit.nl avatar

I don't think it would be enforceable for everyone hosting servers for themselves. I personally use XMPP, Matrix and recently Simplex.

MonkderDritte , (edited )

Open Source. And fuck it, it's not enforceable for private anyway.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Open source what, specifically? And would they not be required to do the same things (which would be harder to enforce, but still)?

SlopppyEngineer ,

The real offenders (except for some stupid rookies) move to the dark web and won't touch the official apps while politicians use this power to scan for political and environmental activists, opponents and critics.

DacoTaco ,
@DacoTaco@lemmy.world avatar

I said the same to a coworker this week. If i were to be part or manage an illegal ring like csam, id make my own protocol/app that just uses encryption. Youre already doing illegal shit, go one further so you dont get caught

MigratingtoLemmy ,

Just use Briar lol

HarriPotero ,
@HarriPotero@lemmy.world avatar

This guy kiddie porns.

EngineerGaming ,
@EngineerGaming@feddit.nl avatar

Probably won't even need anonymizers for this! Chances are concealing usage of your own server would not be that hard on the clearnet either.

MigratingtoLemmy ,

No it will be. Having your own XMPP/IRC server doesn't prevent the NSA from spying on your metadata, and that's exactly what will happen. It's just that TOR and I2P will likely see an increase in traffic

EngineerGaming ,
@EngineerGaming@feddit.nl avatar

Indeed. Protecting the metadata is already a completely different task from protecting the contents. But how would this law in particular change this aspect? It concerns message contents, surveillance of metadata stays the same (aka full). I was saying this about getting back access to encrypted messaging even with a low threat model.

MigratingtoLemmy ,

You're right about that, I commented without thinking. Thanks

essteeyou ,

Does this cover all messages sent between me and my teammates about the secret projects we're working on, or are we only fucking over the people, and not the companies?

SlopppyEngineer ,

If you're working on a secret project, you make your own communication tools and protocols. Or if you're lazy you just set up a mail server behind a VPN.

essteeyou ,

Nah, everyone uses Slack or Teams or whatever. Look at Rockstar and the GTA6 leak, for example.

rbits ,

Making your own protocols means vulnerabilities are more likely. Better to use one that's been tested and audited (unless it's following something like this EU thing of course)

Vitaly ,
@Vitaly@feddit.uk avatar

Imagine scanning encrypted messages

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