A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back ( www.windowscentral.com )

It's a nightmare scenario for Microsoft. The headlining feature of its new Copilot+ PC initiative, which is supposed to drive millions of PC sales over the next couple of years, is under significant fire for being what many say is a major breach of privacy and security on Windows. That feature in question is Windows Recall, a new AI tool designed to remember everything you do on Windows. The feature that we never asked and never wanted it.

Microsoft, has done a lot to degrade the Windows user experience over the last few years. Everything from obtrusive advertisements to full-screen popups, ignoring app defaults, forcing a Microsoft Account, and more have eroded the trust relationship between Windows users and Microsoft.

It's no surprise that users are already assuming that Microsoft will eventually end up collecting that data and using it to shape advertisements for you. That really would be a huge invasion of privacy, and people fully expect Microsoft to do it, and it's those bad Windows practices that have led people to this conclusion.

ProgrammingSocks ,

Stallman just keeps being right*

*About software freedom

ninekeysdown ,
@ninekeysdown@lemmy.world avatar

lol, yeah that’s an important asterisk for sure!

n0m4n ,

As much as I liked Visual Studio, its privacy intrusiveness was my final straw.

PsyDoctah9Jah ,
@PsyDoctah9Jah@lemmy.world avatar

Both Apple and Microsoft are two sides of the same coin....

One went left, the other went right, both going to the same location....

The only thing to consider is how you prefer to travel and how quickly you want to arrive....

freewheel ,

I built a kit car, painted a penguin on the side, and forgot to include the telemetry module. Oops.

I think I'll travel somewhere else.

laurelraven ,

Microsoft and Apple are not the only choices

bluewing ,

Pfffttt, Microsoft has been there, done this, and got a whole closet full of tee shirts for stuff like this many times over the years. In the end the users don't care and can't stop it. And they are, by in large, too lazy to change to something else to completely avoid it.

It hasn't ever affected the bottom line enough to matter to them. They will just pull this bug feature and wait for a better day. Or perhaps they will figure out a way to introduce it piecemeal to disguise it better.

egeres ,
@egeres@lemmy.world avatar

I do think that the concept of recall is very interesting, I want to explore a FOSS version where you have complete ownership of your data in a secure manner

JasSmith ,

Yeah the concept is pretty damn cool. It's just horrifying to have a company own and control that data. I suspect this is like Xbox One launch disaster in 2013, in which Microsoft initially required all consoles to have an always-online connection. People rebelled, but today and certainly on our current trajectory, it now looks like Microsoft was just a little ahead of the curve. I think people will eventually become a lot more comfortable with companies owning their data because the benefits will be so enormous. I'm not happy about that future, but I think I understand it.

Hackworth ,

It seems to me that we've reached a crossroads. I've been very aware of the data mining, garden walls, data trading, privacy violations, security issues, ownership issues, etc. - for roughly 30 years. I regularly make the choice to be exploited for the benefits I extract, largely because the data they've gotten from me thus far I don't highly value. But the necessity to develop strategies to keep the devil's bargain beneficial has reached a fevered pitch. I want to train my own AI and public AIs. I want to explore the vast higher dimensional semantic spaces of generative models without API charges. APIs are vanishing as we speak, anyway, companies fearful of their data being extracted without compensation. Can't really sit on the Open/Closed fence anymore.

ulkesh ,
@ulkesh@lemmy.world avatar

I’m telling everyone I know it’s time to move to Linux, or worst case Mac.

FiniteBanjo ,

Mac is not better in any circumstance. Except maybe power efficiency but I doubt that's going to last for long.

TheFeatureCreature ,
@TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world avatar

MacOS is a highly mature, stable, and user-friendly OS that, at least for now, Apple does not meddle with in the same ways that MS has been doing with Windows. It has its problems, yes, but to say "any circumstance" is extreme. I don't like or agree with everything that Apple has done to MacOS but at least Apple isn't actively trashing it into the ground with forced bloat, ads, malware, etc like MS is doing.

kayazere ,

They are definitely are starting to trash it with ads for their own services, user hostile behavior/dark patterns (try turning off Bluetooth and applying a software update, it will be magically back on), and have ruined the UI slowly turning it in to iOS.

ulkesh ,
@ulkesh@lemmy.world avatar

I have used a Mac since 2007 (almost exclusively for work) and many of Apple's services during that time. I have not experienced any ads as you describe. As for Bluetooth magically turning back on after a software update, of course I do not know for certain, but that screams incompetence more than it screams intent. Apple most definitely has problems (where they build their hardware, policies they tried to enact and then backtracked, etc). And I'm not advocating for them like I am for Linux and other open source solutions. But if a normal user doesn't want to deal with some of the lingering complexities that Linux still has (which is a dwindling number), then a Mac is a relatively viable alternative and it does not come anywhere near as close to the privacy nightmare that Microsoft has become.

I am not tribal at all with respect to any of these entities. I have used all three OSes for the better part of 25 years. I have watched the ebbs and flows of Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, Canonical, Red Hat, and various FOSS solutions such as Linux, for a very long time. And I have had a front row seat seeing Apple's mistakes, Microsoft's mistakes, Canonical's mistakes, and so forth. And I feel I can judge with some semblance of realism and objectivity -- Microsoft has failed so hard with Recall and they are so out of touch with what users want, they deserve every bit of ire they are getting, and they deserve to have their market share diminish because of it. Aside from perhaps Google, and now Adobe, I haven't seen a technology company be so blatantly and willfully aggressive (and one could say, stupid) when it comes to these actions and topics.

kayazere ,

The Bluetooth issue also happens on iOS, so I think it is an explicit choice, as Apple wants as many devices contributing to their Find My Network. It’s also the reason they changed control center on iOS to no longer turn off Wifi and Bluetooth, but to disconnect the current connections.

afraid_of_zombies ,

I'm telling everyone I know

Vegan, European, CrossFit, Linux, born again

aBundleOfFerrets ,

Seeing “European” is all you need to know this is rage bait

secretlyaddictedtolinux ,

I have down-voted this because in a worst case scenario, they should move to a less appealing version of Linux, like Arch

(waiting for my down-votes)

Teknikal ,
@Teknikal@lemm.ee avatar

All I want from an Os is to launch my programs of choice and not suck up my battery running unnecessary junk I couldn't care less about.

MIDItheKID ,

The worst part is that Windows can do that, but Microsoft insists on enshittifying it. Like Windows 11 isn't that terrible if it wasn't for all of the data collection and advertisements and other shit.

I miss the Windows 7 days where you could download a stripped down ISO that was just the OS. It launched your programs of choice and didn't suck up your battery running unnecessary junk.

nossaquesapao ,

Last week, I went to a friend's house and asked to use her computer, which is still a core 2 duo with 2gb of ram and an hdd, running win7. I was a bit surprised to see her family having it as their only computer, but more surprised to see how fast it was. I expected to have the most laggish experience of my life, but it was.. smooth. I've used machines with much modern low end cpus, more ram and ssds that performed much worse than that on win10. The enshittification is real.

MIDItheKID ,

Yup. I can say for sure that SSDs were certainly a game changer, but now we have systems with like 10x the processing power that operate at the same speeds because the power has been spent on poorly optimized code and bloatware.

Sigh... I'm going to have to start fucking around with Linux, aren't I?

bluewing ,

Yeah, the signs are starting to manifest. You will embrace the penguin at some point to get what you desire.

AWittyUsername ,

Apple ensures its operating systems are clean, polished, and without bloat.

Except for all the uninstallable Apple bloat such as Apple Music, Apple TV, etc. And the numerous bugs and issues, such as still not being able to have the touch pad and mouse scroll wheel have different settings.

echodot ,

I remember when everyone was complaining about how terrible Safari is. The lead developer started having a go and ranting on Twitter, saying that raising bug reports is not constructive feedback.

That was a mess.

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Safari is still a pain for frontend developers to deal with. At least IE6 was a static target and we were well aware of all the bugs. Some of the bugs and workarounds even had names, like the "peekaboo bug" and the Holly Hack".

Safari is a moving target that has so many bugs and issues that none of the other major browsers have.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, the main takeaway here is "Apple Bad"

weststadtgesicht ,

The main takeaway of this article about Microsoft's horrible decisions is "Apple bad"? OS flame wars really haven't gotten less ridiculous in the past decades...

moon ,

No it's that Linux is good

billwashere ,

Apple is not blameless but they are a shit-ton better than Microsoft. I have to have M$ for a few work apps but I’m primarily MacOS for desktop and Linux for everything server-side. I avoid M$ as much as possible.

AWittyUsername ,

I agree. But everyone acts like Apple's shit doesn't stink.

ZILtoid1991 ,

Don't forget the fact they're locked onto luxury hardware, and you can't build your own flavor for it. Even worse is, notebook manufacturers copied them so much there's less variations among them. I was looking for some "subnotebook" as a potential portable PC, but I had like a few options (many of which would have included AliExpress junk), but there's an endless supply of same-looking 14-16" ones, that are thin ("real" portability according to techbros), lightweight, "desktop replacements", and run at a constant 95°C.

modifier ,

You can only piss on our faces and tell us it is raining for so long.

FilthyShrooms ,

"It's raining, I see" says the blind man as he pisses into the wind

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I mean 95% of their customers probably don't care or even know what Recall is but...

lazynooblet ,
@lazynooblet@lazysoci.al avatar

Yeah this. Fed up with sensationalist headlines that are far from reality. Us Lemmy users have a better understanding of what's going on but we shouldn't be falling for this journalism as it's nonsense.

skulblaka ,
@skulblaka@startrek.website avatar

95% of their customers are businesses, who no, they don't understand that. But their IT department does.

Crashumbc ,

Their IT department also knows the MS isn't going anywhere...

Honytawk ,

And that IT department also knows how to disable it with a single Group Policy

It really is a none issue

Sibbo ,
@Sibbo@sopuli.xyz avatar

Do people outside of tech care?

F4U57 ,

They really should

Meowie_Gamer ,
@Meowie_Gamer@lemmy.world avatar

No, unfortunately

afraid_of_zombies ,

Just think they might go from owning 98% of the market to 97% of the market. I am sure this is a nightmare for them.

widw ,

You just wait and see. I'll bet it goes all the way down to 96 and then they'll really be sorry.

Crashumbc ,

Year of the Linux destktop!

mojofrododojo ,

MS's frequent missteps - win11, total recall, ai inescapable etc., - may just finally catch up with them. While they continue to devour game studios and shut them down for irrational reasons, who knows?

Stop being so negative and open your mind. Hell, MS did, you can use bash on the command line now. Times do change.

Tryptaminev ,

Gradual shifts can snowball into huge shifts. a few years ago Linux gaming only existed for the dedicated crowd, that somehow managed to make it work. Now for many it is no different from their Windows experience for most games, sometimes even better.

Think of it like bubbles pressing against each other. It matters not only how much pressure your own bubble has, but also how much pressure the other bubbles have in finding the equilibrium. The Windows bubble isn't only weakening itself, the Linux bubble is getting stronger and stronger

c0ber ,

i assume you mean that sarcastically but that is a nightmare for them and every bit of lost marketshare makes it easier to lose more

padge ,

The day Windows 10 loses support is the day I primary (or solo) boot Linux on my gaming desktop. The more news I read the more certain I am in this.

Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

Why wait?

ultratiem ,
@ultratiem@lemmy.ca avatar

You guys trusted MS before this???

TwilightVulpine ,

A couple years ago it wasn't thoroughly and transparently sucking off every bit of personal data it could get, and gearing up to put adds on the desktop on top of that.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar
spaghettiwestern ,

It's also important to remember that Microsoft has no monetary incentive to force people to use Windows Recall.

With that in mind, there would be no reason for Microsoft to automatically enable Windows Recall in an update down the line. If it does happen, the user will be able to instantly tell thanks to that that visual indicator and turn it off again.

This article is nothing but propaganda. There is huge monetary incentive to force people to use Windows Recall and collect their data, and Microsoft routinely uses Windows Update to enable data collection. They began that practice years ago on Windows 7. It's a ridiculously simple matter for MS to disable the visual indicator and force This Week's Plan on their users to monetize their data.

Windows Central pretends to be critical of plans to enable a feature that can be made into malware by Microsoft in a couple of minutes, but then back peddles and says it can't be done (utter BS) and if it could be, it wouldn't be that bad.

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