People seem to have really strong opinions about this show, seeing how every episode discussion is evenly up- and downvoted before anybody have even had a chance to watch or comment 🙄
You know what, I'm out. I'd be down for >!Gary Seven!< or even >!Dark Kes!< but >!Renegade Timelord Wesley Crusher!< is beyond my capacity for suspension of disbelief.
Dude, you’re missing out then. I was dubious going in, but Time Lord Wesley was the absolute delight I didn’t know I needed. Wheaton’s performance was probably leagues better than in TNG.
I probably should have made comments while watching the episodes, as I'm sure I am forgetting a lot of details, but Prodigy seems to have picked up where it left off with regard to the quality of its episodes.
I wasn't expecting Wesley, but I enjoyed how he was used this season. Considering he was able to fling the Enterprise to a different galaxy with his mind, I didn't see anything in this season that bothered me regarding his "powers".
I wonder which Enterprise they would have used. I don't think any of them are appropriate for Janeway.
That being said, it's fun to speculate! Was the E blown up at that point? Was it too early for the Odyssey class?
It's nice to see Janeway in a new whip. The Voyager-A kind of looks like a Sovereign with an Intrepid deflector. Can't say that I mind the look though, I love arrowhead ships!
Here's an addendum with a few great episode examples which might pass my "test".
TOS: "Amok Time", (arguably) "The Galileo Seven"
TNG: "Brothers", "Lower Decks", "The Measure of a Man"
DS9: "It's Only A Paper Moon", "Improbable Cause"+"The Die Is Cast", "The Magnificent Ferengi"
Other shows also have great episodes that pass, but I want to stop here for my examples so as to avoid showing my hand (too much) and stating which show(s) I think fail.
No arguments for or against these yet? I'll nudge this part of the conversation by pointing out that TOS -- THE original Star Trek show -- seems to have a high percentage of episodes which would "fail" this silly "test".
There are so many episodes in all the series but here’s a few from Voyager:
VOY: “The Chute”, “Dreadnought”, “Learning Curve”, “Meld”, “One”, "Once Upon a Time”, “Timeless”… the list goes on. Many other episodes focus on a single member of the crew, many times with the Captain not being an important part of the story at all.
Definitely and many that fail. I wonder if it works as a measure based on percentage of the show as a whole. Then again, it really doesn't matter at all; I only noticed that I get annoyed with certain shows which overuse a single savior for the show's overall story.
I like it, and I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that you're talking about Discovery. I've said in the past that the show should be called "Star Trek: Michael Burnham" as it would at least be more honest.
To be fair, I think every series has a lot of episodes that would fail this test, some of which were excellent, like DS9's "In the Pale Moonlight", and "Far Beyond the Stars" or TNG's "The Inner Light", but if used to assess a series, I think this could be a good metric.
The later seasons let go of some of the Burnham stuff and let characters like Adira have their own plots. I believe Paul and Hugh also had a few arcs though I never got into them myself.
I just didn't like early Burnham as a character. I didn't like most of Sisko either. That doesn't make a show bad, necessarily, but I felt like Discovery didn't offer a whole lot of B plot/secondary characters to compensate. Without secondary perspectives to offset Sisko's heavy moral/philosophical arc, I probably would've hated DS9 as well.
In the later seasons, Burnham became more nuanced by having Book as a sidekick, as well as fleshing out the crew a lot more. They were no longer hurdles in the way of Burnhams's self redemption arc/current goal in life.
TNG also had their terrible episodes, but there were just a lot more of them. Season 1 of TNG got 26/22/26/26/26/26/26 episodes versus Discovery's 15/14/13/13/10. There was also no single overarching plot, so Picard could play a flute and live the life of an alien for a whole episode without derailing any story plans. The "monster of the week" approach also helped inspire some real good moral and philosophical debate that would otherwise never would've been written into a single story, but also some of the most cringeworthy TV I've seen.
Somewhere in the middle of DS9 and Voyager, Star Trek started aiming towards broader plot lines. At first they were multiple seasons long (though some of them had to be smuggled past Berman), but with Enterprise they became per-season. This makes it very difficult to compare old and new Trek, or even early and late seasons of the same show, because the dynamic changed.
I agree with and second many of your statements in here. Well said!
A couple specific points I want to highlight:
Paul and Hugh
I really enjoyed those plots, especially about loss.
There was also no single overarching plot, so Picard could play a flute and live the life of an alien for a whole episode without derailing any story plans. The “monster of the week” approach also helped inspire some real good moral and philosophical debate that would otherwise never would’ve been written into a single story, but also some of the most cringeworthy TV I’ve seen.
I think this is the core of the issue for what I enjoy and don't enjoy with many Star Trek shows. Surprisingly to me, Expanse does this fine whereas Trek/Who/SG-1 would trip over it and have.
In general, great reply with excellent points. Thank you!
To be fair, I think every series has a lot of episodes that would fail this test, some of which were excellent, like DS9’s “In the Pale Moonlight”, and “Far Beyond the Stars” or TNG’s “The Inner Light”, but if used to assess a series, I think this could be a good metric.
Indeed, "In the Pale Moonlight" is one I thought of which fails as well. I still think it makes a good measure to see how many episodes of a show pass/fail overall. Only to see if it's really about the whole crew or mostly one character. (Arguably, early TNG comes really close to being Star Trek: Wesley while mid/late TNG comes close to Star Trek: Data.)
A fair point. However, I just think this sums up my preferences for Trek shows well and had a feeling that many would agree.
Meanwhile, other people might have an internal measure for their preferences which amounts to "is not animated", eliminating TAS and ST:LD.
To be clear, for everyone reading: I have watched every episode of every Star Trek show; I greatly and sincerely appreciate and value the time, effort, and energy of the production crew, writers, and actors of every show. These media of entertainment are impactful and deeply meaningful. Every show has a message for its current time and future audiences and it is so important that, as a fan, I hear those messages and allow myself to appreciate this art as an audience member.
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