Cybermonk_Taiji ,

Here's the thing about the question "where is everyone then?"

Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
-Douglas Adams

We have had the ability to receive signals from space for roughly 100 years. 100 light year radius is NOTHING. Then there is the problem of the inverse square law making broadcast radio signals really hard to detect from that kind of distance.

100 years is an infinitesimal amount of time against the backdrop of the universe. Time is the great enemy here. Space and time are brutal masters.

To physically travel to the very closest star to our own would take over seventy thousand years at speeds we are currently capable of.

Space is almost entirely empty. The great filter could simply be trying to leave one's own planet for any length of time. We are forever isolated, forever tied to the planet from which we arose.

paddirn ,

I like the idea that the Great Filter is really just civilizations turning inward. Like they all get to a point where they realize that space travel is just really not viable and so they stop looking to explore the universe or find other life. Instead they turn to virtual worlds to prolong their existence with what resources they have available in their own star systems. Not even Dyson spheres or anything, they just go into digital hibernation and live out the rest of their lifetimes in a fabricated paradise for however long they can. Maybe they're able to use drugs/genetics/whatever to slow time down to a crawl where it feels like they live thousands of years within a normal lifespan.

For Outer Wilds fans, basically:

spoiler

Owlks

Melatonin ,

I didn't understand the question. What is a "great filter"?

No BS, seriously don't know and want to.

okamiueru ,

https://youtu.be/UjtOGPJ0URM

This covers it pretty well.

If you want a very short version: a hypothetical eventuality in the technological advancement of intelligent life, as to limit their existence.

Adderbox76 ,

I don't think that's an "if" at all. I firmly believe that that's exactly it.

The same behaviours that we needed to evolve are harmful now that we've reached a potential "post-scarcity" stage.

To put it more bluntly, the drive to compete for resources in order to survive is what made us the dominant species. Now that post-scarcity is essentially upon us, our nature is to create artificial scarcity in order to satiate that drive for competition. And it will be the ultimate end of us.

whaleross OP ,
@whaleross@lemmy.world avatar

These are pretty much the thoughts I had.

Cryophilia ,

So like, we all just give up as a species? Sounds unlikely.

AA5B ,

Think of Star Trek as an analogy.

  • The Archers, Pikes, Kirks succeeded by being bold and daring, confronting dangers, fighting to survive. The Siskos and Burnhams instigated war on a galactic scale. They were violent, reactive, risk takers
  • a couple centuries later, the Picards confronted greater obstacles but with reason, compassion, self-sacrifice. If Kirk had faced Q, that would have been the great filter, but Picard succeeded as a human evolved past his violent reactions
Cryophilia ,

I've never watched Star Trek.

I know, heresy for lemmy.

I also use windows and not linux (though I plan on switching when I get time to learn linux)

AA5B ,

Wow, it’s like talking to an Alien ….. while I do occasionally use Windows, my main laptop is OSX, my home servers are Raspian and Suse and at work I use Red Hat, Debian and whatever Amazon Linux is, and my media consumption is Linux or iOS

Shardikprime ,

I mean there are multiple proposed filters.

Suppose yours is correct. What is this humanity's nature you speak of?

Bravery? Foolishness? Wisdom? Violence? Greed?

What what of those attributes haven't we already overcome time and again?

It's much more probable that everyone out there is attentively listening to signals instead of radically changing their own mental processes. Or not

BluJay320 ,
@BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Wtf kinda world are you living in where humanity has overcome foolishness, violence, and greed?

haui_lemmy ,
@haui_lemmy@lemmy.giftedmc.com avatar

I think they meant for five minutes because if you won, you won right?

AA5B ,

Exactly. Everyone thought nuclear war might be one of the great filters but we survived the Cold War. Nuclear weapons are no longer a concern, right? Right?

Shardikprime ,

I mean I don't see people practice nuclear drills anymore so yeah

Shardikprime ,

Sounds like little but it's a lot and it compounds

Shardikprime ,

I mean same as yours I hope? People do that daily, hope you grow to notice it. It's nice when you do

usualsuspect191 ,

Maybe the great filter is the misuse of apostrophes?

whaleross OP ,
@whaleross@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe the great filter is crabs dragging others down to their level.

Grayox ,
@Grayox@lemmy.ml avatar

Reminds me of my thoughts after reading "Why Buddhism is True" by Robert Wright. If you haven't read it before I highly recommend it.

gedaliyah ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

So we all just happily go back to living in forest?

classic ,

The thing is we could largely retain all our advances and live in a more fecund environment. A large portion of our pollution is unnecessary and tied to whatever you call this global economic system / social paradigm we've backed ourselves into. It's only either or between forest and urban blight because we've made it so

foggy , (edited )

The the DNA brick wall we've been climbing is exactly that.

You've reminded me of some of my favorite hip hop lyrics of all time. If you never heard Eyedea before he died (27 club, I think?), Eyedea had Eminem level potential. Fucking incredible lyricist. If this tickles your fancy, go peep the album First Born.

Eyedea & Abilities - Man vs Ape

Move!

There's no telling what I'ma do

I'm eighty-thousand years of natural selection comin through

You ain't got as much aggression, possessions, weapons

I'll be damned if I get outdone by the next man

If you're beliefs are different than mine, then we gonna fight

Who needs peace when you can profit from being right?

I hold picket signs outside abortion clinic doors

Take what I want with force

And my God could kill yours

.

Involved with a species evolving so slowly

Genetically infantile, violent and holy

We think we're so smart but there's not much to know

Caveman is still alive behind those robot eyes

Fully controlled by ten thousand year old instincts

Hands on the war button, flinch and your world's extinct

This is technology for the barbarian

I see the future: the past, we'll be there again

.

Remember, the atom bomb came from the same place as poetry

.

Die dirty hippy commie scum, Christian, Muslim Buddhist, Jew

Democrat, factory-workin, college student you...

My nervous system don't take no bullshit

Been dominating since the day I touched the monolith

I only breed with sex-symbol worthy women

They stay at home and cook while I go out a make a living

Don't challenge my ego, don't step on my shoe

Otherwise the next wake that you attend might be for you

.

Grindin' my teeth as I'm battling uphill

The fight against ape-hood is fate versus free will

We think we're advanced but there's nowhere to go

Mammals stay captive to animal actions

So slowly we climb up this DNA brick wall

Addicted to emptiness, anger and pitfalls

Desire for space, territory, or lust

We'll eventually turn this whole planet to dust

.

There can be no peace when man is still a part of it

.

Purpose, perseverance, wordless amoeba surface

To lead the first coherent paleolithic circus

Specific neuro-circuits link man and Neanderthal

However, recent bio-chemical imprints

conflict with primitive urges

It's full blown ontological warfare

Murdering memories in the future two million years

Peace is a word we often say,

But it can't exist as long as the ape is here to stay

whoisearth ,
@whoisearth@lemmy.ca avatar

RIP eyedea

ilhamagh ,

Do you have other song recommendations with larger than life topics like this ?

I don't listen to hip-hop but I like the theme of this one.

foggy , (edited )

I recommend the album, Eyedea & Abilities - first born

The dive part 1 and 2 will blow your mind. And the song Read Wiped and Blue has some lyrics that are relevant today:

Another of his, A Murder of Memories, about war/PTSD.

ilhamagh ,

Thank you !

Gigan ,
@Gigan@lemmy.world avatar

I think the evolution of multicellular life is most likely to be the great filter, since it took the longest to develop on earth.

spittingimage ,
@spittingimage@lemmy.world avatar

What if the great filter is our love of carbs?

banghida ,

Hey, carbs are awesome.

whaleross OP ,
@whaleross@lemmy.world avatar

Leave the flying spaghetti monster out of this.

Pat_Riot ,
@Pat_Riot@lemmy.today avatar

May you be touched by his noodley appendage.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Then we better hurry the fuck up before we make it impossible to live on the planet.

Weslee ,

In the grand scale of the universe we aren't even a blip, any "permanent" damage we cause will be reversed over hundreds of thousands or millions of years after we've wiped ourselves out.

And even if there was some kind of damage that couldn't be reversed, the next cycle of life would just adapt to whatever the issue is

dohpaz42 ,
@dohpaz42@lemmy.world avatar

I mean the earth has already survived having the first moon crash into it, as well as a giant meteor that caused an ice age. We have t quite gotten to that level, yet.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

I'm not really worried about the planet. I'm worried about us.

Cryophilia ,

Been seeing a lot of "mass extinctions are fine, earth will recover" bullshit lately, it's making me suspicious that this is the next big oil psyop.

Weslee ,

Oh yeah it's all good, I just talked about millions of years of recovery and the extinction of humans, but yeah I'm a shill for big oil.

What are you smoking? I want some

OneWomanCreamTeam ,
@OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works avatar

Yeah "earth will recover once all humans die" doesn't make me any less worried for humanity.

Cryophilia ,

Humanity aside, exterminating thousands of species of animals is just bad, not for any practical effect it has on humanity or "nature" but just because it, in itself, is morally bad.

OneWomanCreamTeam ,
@OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works avatar

The argument I've heard is that new species will evolve to fill new niches and one day earth will host the same biodiversity again.

I can't say I find that one anymore convincing. I'm with you on this, it's pretty gross how blasé some people are about dragging countless other species into extinction along with us.

Cryophilia ,

I've seen it a lot recently.

Person 1: nature will recover, but humanity will go extinct.

Person 2: actually, humanity won't go extinct [list of information about humanity's resiliency]

Person 1 (or 3rd party reading): oh cool, not that big a deal then

Lost in this discussion: mass extinctions bad

apfelwoiSchoppen ,
@apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world avatar

Hell of a shower thought, Mr. Sagan.

dogsnest ,
@dogsnest@lemmy.world avatar

Can't say I'd ever get a shower erection with that thought. /tmi

whaleross OP ,
@whaleross@lemmy.world avatar

Cleansing as a pretentious melancholic.

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