Help for getting started with hardware

I dived into the selfhosting rabbit hole once again and again I am stuck at the hardware part.
I'd like to start small-ish to make it realisable. I thought about a NAS (Openmediavault probably). First I wanted to do it on a Raspberry Pi with an external hard-drive but then I read USB connected drives are unreliable and so on.
Mini PCs are too small to house internal drives so should I go with a (refurbished) business PC from ebay and add some drives to it?But they usually come with Windows 10, which I wouldn't need but makes them more expensive.
I also have at least one old PC case laying around but no mainboard or CPU for it, if that info might be important.
Thank you in advance for helping a noob out!

gravitas_deficiency ,

Some foundational questions:

  • budget?
  • rough desired capacity?
  • desired level of resiliency?
just_another_person , (edited )

I think you're confusing a few ideas here, and it's hard to understand what your main goal is. Let me see if I can break down what you want here:

  • Small form factor if possible
  • Storage expansion
  • Low power (antithesis to 3.5" HDDs)
  • NAS features? (unclear here)

If you're just trying to run containers easily, Synology NAS that support it (certain tier) are really easy to use, and you won't have to worry about hardware except inserting the initial drives to use.

If you're worried about cost, sure, building your own is going to be the best bet. If you're not expecting to really tax the I/O of the drives, USB 3+ won't be the worst thing in the world, but the management of a storage array over USB will be problematic if doing it yourself.

Lastly, it may help us if you describe what you're actually trying to to host on this hardware. It's the difference between someone suggesting a very low power CPU like an N100, or a lowER power CPU like and AMD that has a bit more upfront cost.

If any of this is confusing, just have a look at Synology or Qnap maybe. It'll be easier to manage in the long run if you're not comfortable or enjoy fiddling with hardware.

___ ,

I would recommend getting a “forever” case like the Node 304. You won’t regret the purchase and you can use for any future upgrades. It stores 8 3.5 drives, so you can add on as you grow.

Find a used a motherboard like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/235546915389?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=GP45S9r5R6-&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=uaLd2h3oTQO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

With a cheap GE (low power version) AMD processor and 16/32gb ram and whatever nvme ssd you can scrounge.

It will cost you maybe $100 over some alternatives, but you can use it for years and keep upgrading as you go.

Most Dell and OEM parts won’t work on standard cases, FYI.

Mountain_Mike_420 ,

If your power is expensive then go with raspi/nas/mini pc/laptop route. My setup is raspi with 2 usb drives. Going on 5 years now with no problems. They only store media and I don’t care about backing them up.

theorangeninja OP ,

Thank you very much for the insights. Which drives do you use (HDD or SSD)?

StrawberryPigtails ,

@tal has already given a really good answer.
To add to it, this thread might help you some: https://lemmy.sdf.org/comment/11963996 I was asked what I thought was "better" than a raspberry pi. Came back with an eBay search and a trio of suggestions in the price range of a Pi 4. TLDR is whatever you have currently will probably work fine but if you need to buy hardware, there are plenty of low cost options. And of course, Pi's also work fine for anything they are capable of, which is most things.

When I started self hosting, Raspberry Pi's were the cheapest option available. I learned fairly quickly that the SD card was the weakest part of them but not long after the Pi3 came out we were able to boot off of USB drives which solved that issue. I think I had 8 SSDs hanging off of one pi before I finally decided to plop down the money for a tower. I then added a pair of 6 port SATA cards and added even more storage to that system. Eventually I was hosting so many things that I was running out of RAM, So I bought a second used tower, this one with a much newer processor and a lot more RAM. Now I run both with the old system running as a NAS and the new system hosting my other services. I wouldn't stress about hardware too much. Hardware can grow with you, to a point.

Mini PCs are too small to house internal drives

Most mini PCs I've heard of (and quite a few thin clients) use m.2 drives for internal storage. Not difficult to upgrade. I've also heard of a few that had ports and internal space for 2.5 inch SSDs.

theorangeninja OP ,

The link you posted is not working for me but doesn't matter. Thank you very much for the writeup!

I found a few of https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:HP_8200_Elite_SFF.jpg#/media/File:HP_8200_Elite_SFF.jpg on ebay, refurbished business machines mostly. I think you can fit a drive or two inside there? The mainboards have SATA connectors. Maybe I could also take the mainboard and power supply out and put them in my old tower.

Another thing I thought about was buying a https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Intel_NUC_Haswell_(case_rear_panel).jpg#/media/File:Intel_NUC_Haswell_(case_rear_panel).jpg, put it in my old tower, add a M.2 6xSATA card and put the drives in the bays of the tower.

But probably I should just use my RPi400, hook up one or two big external HDDs (add RAID?) and start there. Then I can better decide what I want and need after testing Openmediavault for example.
While talking about the RPi and booting from USB drives. Should I buy a cheap-ish USB SSD and boot from that and not from the SD card? What's the problem with SD cards?

Decronym Bot , (edited )

Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:

Fewer Letters More Letters
NAS Network-Attached Storage
RAID Redundant Array of Independent Disks for mass storage
RPi Raspberry Pi brand of SBC
SATA Serial AT Attachment interface for mass storage
SBC Single-Board Computer
SSD Solid State Drive mass storage

5 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 7 acronyms.

[Thread for this sub, first seen 11th Jun 2024, 08:05]
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tal ,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

What do you want to do with it? I mean, that really determines the hardware.

Consider the following use cases:

  • If you're trying to do a media server to serve video and audio files up to other devices around the house, then access time probably basically doesn't matter, and rotational drives are fine, and CPU capacity is probably irrelevant; you only need to stream at the media's speed, and there isn't a whole lot of seeking, and there's no computation. You need the system to be running at all time. Expandability, other than storage, doesn't really matter.

  • If you want a backup server, then you're probably in a similar situation.

  • If you're trying to do a box to run LLMs, like a headless Stable Diffusion server, then you probably want a very beefy GPU, and enough storage space to store the relevant content, but you don't need massive amounts of storage. CPU doesn't matter much.

  • If you're trying to do a firewall, then unless you have really elaborate processing requirements, CPU probably doesn't matter. You are going to want at least two network ports. Keeping power usage low is probably desirable.

  • If you're doing a home automation server, probably similar (though you don't need network ports).

  • If you're trying to have a box that runs VMs, then a bunch of memory and a beefy CPU, not to mention probably SSDs is likely desirable. Limiting power use probably isn't that important.

There are applications for which a Pi is completely reasonable, where you're using very little power and just need to keep the box always available. But there are applications for which it's unreasonable, too -- it'd make a bad VM-hosting box.

Like, if you say "I plan to do X, and Y and I'm thinking that I might do Z", and maybe give some kind of a desired budget, that'll probably get you more-useful advice.

First I wanted to do it on a Raspberry Pi with an external hard-drive but then I read USB connected drives are unreliable and so on.

I don't know about unreliable. I've never had problems with USB-attached storage just not working. But I do have one enclosure with about five drive bays that doesn't have an option to return to the previous power state on power loss -- one has to tap the power button -- which is incredibly obnoxious, as if it loses power and I'm away, I can't bring it back up. That wasn't something that I'd anticipated being an issue, and I'd suggest that anyone getting one for a system that they intend to use remotely check that such an enclosure does have such functionality.

theorangeninja OP ,

First thank you for the detailed examples!

Alright, I would like a NAS and (separated) a server with some small services (pi-hole or adguard, jellyfin (getting the data from the NAS), and so on). I thought about running the small services with docker on a RPi 4 and the NAS on a refurbished business PC with SATA drives in the case (I checked ebay and there are mainboards with 4 SATA III connectors and PCI so I could even add more SATA connectors). In a second moment a backup server (maybe with borg) would be a good idea but I could also do manual backups with an external USB HDD for the time being. And I have a tight budget.

bandwidthcrisis ,

FWIW, I ran a Pi 2 with external (self-powered) USB drive for about 8 years as my main backup without issue (except that it was slow). I've just replaced it with a Pi 5 and TerraPi frame holding an SSD.

theorangeninja OP ,

I also thought about using it as a backup too, but a backup usually has way less reads and writes than a NAS?

bandwidthcrisis ,

Maybe so. But it did process duplicity backups every week for hundreds of Gb, so it did a fair amount of work even though not constantly active.

theorangeninja OP ,

That's good to hear, maybe I should reconsider the Pi.

slazer2au ,

It is 100% ok to break your homeland into 2 parts.

Get a dedicated nas and secondhand eBay PC. The windows licence doesn't matter, no one is going to discount the price because you are not going to use the licence.

theorangeninja OP ,

With dedicated NAS you mean a synology or something like that? Because they are not very affordable. Yeah I figured that so I didn't even ask for a discount.

slazer2au ,

You can also build your own thing with something like a Jonbo N case.

theorangeninja OP ,

What about some drives in a small form factor business PC (not the new mini PCs)? Too bad airflow to cool it?

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