Programmer Humor

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anarchist , in Tough break, kid...
@anarchist@lemmy.ml avatar

"Engineering"

h3rm17 ,

Yeah, well, like most software engineers lol

po_tay_toes ,
@po_tay_toes@lemmy.sambands.net avatar

Amateurs, I'm an AI artisté and demand big bucks for "my" art pieces. Also fuck everybody who made all the stuff that the AI stole from.

xmunk , in Tough break, kid...

People in glass houses...

Software engineering isn't engineering.

frezik ,

Yes, it is. Mostly because "real engineering" isn't the high bar it's made out to be. From that blog:

Nobody I read in these arguments, not one single person, ever worked as a “real” engineer. At best they had some classical training in the classroom, but we all know that looks nothing like reality. Nobody in this debate had anything more than stereotypes to work with. The difference between the engineering in our heads and in reality has been noticed by others before, most visibly by Glenn Vanderburg. He read books on engineering to figure out the difference. But I wanted to go further.

Software has developed in an area where the cost of failure is relatively low. We might make million dollar mistakes, but it's not likely anybody dies from it. In areas where somebody could die from bad software, techniques like formal verification come into play. Those tend to make everything take 10 times longer, and there's no compelling reason for the industry at large to do that.

If anything, we should lean into this as an advantage. How fast can we make the cycle of change to deployment?

Alexstarfire ,

I help make Healthcare software. Mistakes can easily lead to death. Not most, but it's something we always have to worry about.

ColeSloth , in Tough break, kid...

Sounds like someone's worried about how easily replaced they'll be in the future...

Prunebutt ,

You sound like a class traitor

ColeSloth ,

Realist, maybe. Often a pessimist. Never really a class traitor. Besides, I'm more blue collar than white collar, so I've never gotten the luxury of working from home at a higher pay, so as far as being the same class....in the sense of rich vs everyone else, sure.

Prunebutt ,

Your snide comment just seemed a bit too glee about people about to lose their job. Or at least: lacking in solidarity with them.

Forget the distinction between blue and white collar, or higher and lower income: these aren't classes and the distinction onlyserves toseparateus in class struggle. I meant the "wage dependant class here".

best_username_ever ,

Sounds like science fiction. No proof that it’s useful right now except copy pasta from StackOverflow.

OsrsNeedsF2P , in Tough break, kid...

Using an IDE isn't programming either

But I'll definitely prefer hiring someone who does. Sure, you can code in Vi without plugins, but why? Leave your elitism at home. We have deadlines and money to make.

Edit: The discussions I've had about AI here on Lemmy and Hackernews have seriously made me consider asking whether or not the candidate uses AI tools as an interview question, with the only correct answer a variation of "Yes I do".

Boomer seniors scared of new tools is why Oracle is still around. I don't want any of those on my team.

dukk ,

AI’s not bad, it just doesn’t save me time. For quick, simple things, I can do it myself faster than the AI. For more big, complex tasks, I find myself rigorously checking the AI’s code to make sure no new bugs or vulnerabilities are introduced. Instead of reviewing that code, I’d rather just write it myself and have the confidence that there are no glaring issues. Beyond more intelligent autocomplete, I don’t really have much of a need for AI when I program.

frezik ,

Sure, you can code in Vi without plugins, but why? Leave your elitism at home. We have deadlines and money to make.

Nothing elitist about it. Vim is not a modular tool that I can swap out of my mental model. Before someone says it, I've tried VS Code's vim plugin, and it sucks ass.

HopFlop ,

Using an IDE definety IS programming.

TropicalDingdong , in Tough break, kid...

Bro if you could get there just by prompting, it would be.

There are no models good enough to just ask for something to be done and it gets done.

There will be someday though.

scrubbles ,
@scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

Build an entire ecosystem, with multiple frontends, apps, databases, admin portals. It needs to work with my industry. Make it run cheap on the cloud. Also make sure it's pretty.

The prompts are getting so large we may need to make some sort of... Structured language to pipe into.. a device that would.. compile it all...

lugal , in Tough break, kid...

That's why I'm proud to be also programming in HTML

bignate31 ,

it's only real programming if you also use CSS

lugal ,

It's only real gatekeeping if you have a physical gate

GravitySpoiled , in Tough break, kid...

Looks like an ai did that

pigup ,

HATERS will say it's fake

rimjob_rainer , in FLOSS communities right now

Discord separates and controls possibly useful information from the public internet. It's one of the worst platforms to use.

zarkanian ,
@zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

Are you against IRC for the same reason?

KillingTimeItself , in FLOSS communities right now

PLEASE I BEG OF YOU, STOP USING DISCORD IN PLACE OF FORUMS AND PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE BOARDS!

ALostInquirer ,

While I agree, what might everyday people use to set up forums as relatively easily and cheaply as their Discord servers, and not have them riddled with ads or other clunky elements?

I'm pretty sure those that may have even been considering forums went to Discord because the only other options were more involved in terms of set up/maintenance and cost, the latter to get something without ads.

sunbeam60 , in FLOSS communities right now

Discord is a fucking plague. I loathe it for communities. As soon as there are more than 10 people in a room, no one can follow what anyone is saying. Threads? No dude, this isn’t the 90s! Let’s slack it up!!! 🤮

sep ,

All chat tools after irc have been trash for large communities. That includes slack.
Irc somehow still works with 1500 people in it. I can not explain how. With a logging bot the discussions can be archived for google searchabillity. I guess that could be true for a discord or slack also, But i never seen it implemented. In most slacks i can not search more then 60 days back.

loudWaterEnjoyer ,
@loudWaterEnjoyer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Matrix works great, I am in multiple rooms including some with 1983, 1356 or 1120 people

jayrodtheoldbod ,

I wonder if it works like IRC. The "plague" this entire time has been servers. As soon as the idea only works because somebody, somewhere, is maintaining a server, cloud or hardware, then you're kinda sunk. The server is the bottleneck. I don't know how many times I've seen a AAA game launch only for the servers to be inadequate. It happens again and again and again, so I assume the business considerations push them toward having just enough server and maybe a little less, never extra, which costs money and cuts margins.

Somewhere there are a bunch of servers howling away in a room that are actually Discord, and Discord spends money to make them howl, so there's never as much server as you want, which is why things start bogging down with too many people in the chat room at once.

Most importantly to a corporation, if you have to interact with their servers in order to do anything, then they can own the platform by owning the servers. So there's always going to be a server, even if it's not strictly needed. The same consideration goes through the head of the streamer who always wants to launch a Discord because it's "free" but they can sell it to you and then have top level control of an entire community as an asset that can be sold to others. There's always a server. There will be a server if the actual application doesn't really need it.

The reason IRC works fine with 1500 people in a chat is because IRC uses the user's machine for any sort of computation power it needs, and then everything else it is doing is just sending data across wires. There is no central server farm. I haven't used IRC in a really, really long time, but if it hasn't changed, then it also doesn't support lots of picture posting, which helps. Most of the memory usage on my machine at idle is just too many Discord channels all needing to use my local RAM memory to store the umpteen thousand photos everyone has uploaded, all the memes and etc. The IRC I remember was text, and text uses so little data that it can be treated like zero data.

Lots of pictures are probably non-negotiable in the modern era. Heck, they're pretty important for serious work tasks, like putting up a shot of the broken gadget, so the engineering team can get an eyeball on the failure, that means pictures are in, text-only isn't viable. I don't know if modern IRC supports this or not, it probably does if people are still using it at all.

But IRC is a piece of open-source software that you install on your machine, free to the user. It's not a web app, it doesn't live in a browser. The data of you interacting with others is being sent out to them and also back to you, where it shows up in your IRC client and the chat room. If 1500 people are using it, then 1500 people have each added some of their machine power to making it all work, so it scales, it always has as much hardware as it needs. Again, there's no server in the middle to run out of capacity, so that problem is just bypassed.

Everything used to work like this, circa the late 1990s and early 2010s. Everyone was assumed to be on a PC of their own, and the only problem was how to connect them together to do stuff, like have deranged fan wars about shows. BBSs were already kind of old hat, and there's that damn server again, every BBS has one. All the most clever apps of the 90s, even the web, managed to jump through hoops to avoid the necessity of a central server to get things done because then somebody has to pay for it, run it, maintain it and own it. We just want the wires, the lovely, lovely cables dragged across the sea at somebody else's unthinkable expense. If you can eliminate the server somehow, then you win. And they did. Things like IRC and ICQ blew the hell up from using that model.

We really need to dig that entire concept back up and brush the dust off of it. I wonder if that's what Matrix is.

Now if you'll excuse me I need to go prune some pointless Discord channels. Oh, by the by, fucking nobody uses Slack, or knows what it is. Dudes on the internet all think it's normal because tech offices seem to use it a lot, the rest of the world has never used Slack. Up until right now I was assuming that Discord and Slack are the same thing, owned by the same company, and Slack is just the "business casual" version of Discord. This doesn't seem to be true, but that's how unfamiliar I am with Slack, while being chronically online. There are probably more people around who still remember ICQ than have ever used Slack in their lives.

I love the Church of the Subgenius reference built into Slack's name. From what I can tell, nobody who uses that thing actually gets any slack, it actively removes slack from your life and makes boss surveillance really, really easy for the boss, but you must always act as though Big Brother can hear, or you're fucked. Good work Bob, nice joke. Anyway, I shut up now.

loudWaterEnjoyer ,
@loudWaterEnjoyer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

You need some kind of help or something?

ono , in FLOSS communities right now
  • Terrible format for archiving knowledge
  • Terrible tool for retrieving knowledge
  • Locks community access behind a corporate license agreement
  • Hands control of community-created content to a corporation
  • Prevents indexing by web search engines
  • Antithetical to interoperability
  • Privacy-hostile

A web forum is far better in most cases. If you can't manage to run your own, there are plenty of lemmy servers that will do it for you. Even an email list (with searchable archives) would be better than Discord.

If you have collaborative documents that outgrow the forum format, use a wiki.

If real-time chat is needed, irc or matrix.

A project hosting its community on Discord is a project that won't get my contributions.

elrik ,

I recently went through these exact pains trying to contribute to a project that exclusively ran through Discord and eventually had to give up when it was clear they would never enable issues in their GitHub repos for "reasons."

It was impossible to discover the history behind anything. Even current information was lost within days, having to rehash aspects that were already investigated and decided upon.

wrekone ,

It's the "see no evil" approach. If you didn't report the issue while the admin was online, then they aren't compelled to do anything about it. Convenient for the project maintainer who doesn't actually like maintaining things. Awful for the rest of us.

vvv , in FLOSS communities right now

it's awful and I hate it. I generally prefer not to have a shared identity across communities, and there's no way to create a usable discord identity without a phone number.

SkyNTP , in Me after I got fired

This wouldn't pass PR review and automated tests, unless they were a senior dev and used elevated privileges to mess with things behind the scenes.

maynarkh ,

It's bold to assume those exist. Maybe there's a reason the coworker left

perviouslyiner , in Me after I got fired

define it as ( __LINE__ % 10) so that the problem goes away when you add a debug statement

CodexArcanum ,

Makes the error a little too frequent, but does obscure any performance penalty and is some truly evil genius work!

Prunebutt ,

Can someone ELI5 what this does?

yggdar ,

That exact version will end up making "true" false any time it appears on a line number that is divisible by 10.

During the compilation, "true" would be replaced by that statement and within the statement, "__LINE__" would be replaced by the line number of the current line. So at runtime, you end up witb the line number modulo 10 (%10). In C, something is true if its value is not 0. So for e.g., lines 4, 17, 116, 39, it ends up being true. For line numbers that can be divided by 10, the result is zero, and thus false.

In reality the compiler would optimise that modulo operation away and pre-calculate the result during compilation.

The original version constantly behaves differently at runtime, this version would always give the same result... Unless you change any line and recompile.

The original version is also super likely to be actually true. This version would be false very often. You could reduce the likelihood by increasing the 10, but you can't make it too high or it will never be triggered.

One downside compared to the original version is that the value of "true" can be 10 different things (anything between 0 and 9), so you would get a lot more weird behaviour since "1 == true" would not always be true.

A slightly more consistent version would be

((__LINE__ % 10) > 0)
BaumGeist ,

The original version constantly behaves differently at runtime

It actually doesn't, since rand() is deterministic.

When no seed value is specified, rand() is automatically seeded with 1 at the initial call within any program It then uses the previous output as seed for the next, so it will always have the same output sequence

superterran , in Junior Dev VS Machine Learning
@superterran@discuss.online avatar

LLM costs $20 a month and needed only 60 hours of training, junior dev has been at it for years, costs as much for a half hour, and still needed me to repeatedly explain what a rectangle is

activ8r ,

If you're paying someone $40 an hour who doesn't know what a rectangle is then I think you're the problem.

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