Privacy

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Unabart , in Chat control vote postponed: Huge success in defense of digital privacy of correspondence!
@Unabart@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

That’s great news. But they’ll eventually sneak it in when they’ve distracted us with something else astonishingly awful.

Question, mostly out of an inability to completely understand the tech side of this, but how would this be possible with Messenger services that have no central servers or direct point to implement something like this? Say, Session IM or SimpleX.

🤘🏼

Thekingoflorda , in Hacker Accesses Internal ‘Tile’ Tool That Provides Location Data to Cops
@Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world avatar

Tile is a dying company. Pretty expensive trackers that are objectively worse that apple’s and samsungs offerings.

Ptsf ,

Yeah. Imo their one hope was to make trackers that leverage both networks, as a sort of middle ground device for like a family with 1 android and 1 iPhone. Without that pivot they've seemed dead since the airtag launch.

Oisteink , in Hacker Accesses Internal ‘Tile’ Tool That Provides Location Data to Cops

Great paywall link you got there

Misanthrope ,
@Misanthrope@lemmy.ml avatar
aa1 , in Chat control vote postponed: Huge success in defense of digital privacy of correspondence!

Nice to see it!

McNasty , in [USA] Appeals court rules that cops can physically make you unlock your phone
@McNasty@sh.itjust.works avatar

Doesn't it boil down to like what you know is safe, what you are can be used?

Like they can't make you give passwords, but biometrics are vulnerable.

FenrirIII ,
@FenrirIII@lemmy.world avatar

Restart your phone beforehand so that it won't accept biometrics

Unreliable ,

Both iOS and Android have Lockdown options, so that isn't even completely necessary, granted it will also work.

Censored ,

Before the police pull you over?

capital ,

On iOS hold vol up (or down) and power at the same time. It starts SOS but you can cancel. At this point Face ID is disabled and you must enter your pin to reenable it.

So yeah. As soon as you see lights, hit that cop button.

Just make sure you have all your docs on paper so you don’t have to open your phone.

StaySquared , in [USA] Appeals court rules that cops can physically make you unlock your phone

I forgot my passcode.

What then?

Ultraviolet ,

They can only force you to use biometrics to open it, not a password.

StaySquared ,

Noted!

the_doktor , in [USA] Appeals court rules that cops can physically make you unlock your phone

And this is why you never, ever, EVER enable biometrics. EVER. Make a damn password or at least a very long PIN and enter that shit every time.

Boozilla OP ,
@Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

Completely agree. There are a surprising number of folks who should know better who will swear up and down how safe they are. If they like the convenience and the "cool factor" of using them....that's fine, whatever, none of my business. Just don't try to gaslight me that they are safe.

tired_n_bored , (edited )

For people who don't want to do that: turn off your phone if there's the likelihood that your phone will be confiscated soon (crossing a state border or getting a perquisition). This will

  1. Disable biometrics
  2. Encrypt everything
CrayonRosary ,

On Android, entering lockdown mode does the same thing. You can do it by pressing volume-up and power at the same time, then tapping Lockdown.

Jarix ,

Not all phones work that way. Just tried it on mine btw

Censored ,

And this only makes it more expensive and time consuming to unlock. So if you're small fry, they won't waste the resources. But if you are a "person of interest" don't be dumb, bring a burner phone.

Raiderkev ,

Or power it off when they ask for it to disable biometric unlock.

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

Not always an option. Sometimes reaching for your phone to turn it off will get you killed. Just don't use biometrics.

sibannac , in [USA] Appeals court rules that cops can physically make you unlock your phone

Jokes on them, my biometrics don't work most of the time and I have to enter my pin anyway.

SeattleRain , in [USA] Appeals court rules that cops can physically make you unlock your phone

This is Graphene OS had a distress code you can enter that will wipe the phone.

waitmarks ,

I wonder though, if you had that set up and the cops ask you for the code to unlock and you told them the code to wipe and they end up wiping the phone. Would they be able to charge you with evidence tampering?

SeattleRain ,

How would they know

waitmarks ,

Because instead of unlocking, everything would get deleted when they entered the code.

SeattleRain ,

They wouldn't know it was you.

Zomg , (edited )

"Sorry, my distress pin is 1 digit off of my unlock pin, you probably fat fingered it by mistake. I guess we'll never know. You really need to be more careful."

AA5B , (edited )

I’d expect so. You have the right to remain silent. You do not have the right to destroy evidence. How is wiping your phone any different from running around your house flushing things?

waitmarks ,

Because they would be the ones actually entering it, you would just say some numbers out loud.

But probably the smarter thing to do would be to leave the wipe code on a sticky note inside the phone case and hope they try it.

SeattleRain ,

You can also set it to wipe if you don't enter a PIN after a set amount of time.

jake_jake_jake_ , in [USA] Appeals court rules that cops can physically make you unlock your phone

PSA FOR IPHONE:

if you press volume up, then volume down, then hold the power button until the power slider comes on, then it will disable biometrics until next unlock

khaleer ,

Why tf to use biometrics then?

jake_jake_jake_ ,

99% of the time im not in a situation where i am being confronted by cops, but crossing a border or a traffic stop it is nice to know

cordlesslamp ,

Do you have to slide the power slider and turn off your phone for it to work? Or does it disable biometric as the slider show up?

jake_jake_jake_ ,

as soon as it shows up, i have also learned in this thread that clicking the power button 5 times does the same

StaySquared ,

Just learned something new. Thanks!

McNasty ,
@McNasty@sh.itjust.works avatar

Lol that's emergency 911 on my phone

StaySquared , (edited )

I just tested it... it's the same combination for a fast shutdown. Up > Down > Hold Power (1 second hold), then you're introduced to the option of sliding to power off. If you exit from that prompt or just leave the screen idle for about 10-15 seconds (I didn't count it) you'll be forced to enter passcode.

DreamlandLividity ,

For GrapheneOS (custom android), there is Lockdown button next to power off and restart which does the same thing. I think it may be on other Android phones as well but not sure.

efstajas ,

Yeah, it's a feature on stock android. Should be in most android flavors

Unreliable ,

Graphene even has an option to enter a fake pin and wipe the phone iirc.

nutbutter ,

Yes, known as Duress password.

DreamlandLividity ,

Yes, and it may be a good idea to have it just in case. But the courts in the US so far mostly ruled that police forcing you to give biometrics to unlock is fine, as it is the same as fingerprinting you when you are arrested. But forcing you to give pin/password is the same as testifying against yourself, which is against the 5th amendment. So they usually can't make you to give them a pin/password. At least in theory. Still better to have it in practice.

StaySquared ,

Legit.

Censored ,

You won't have the time or ability to do this when the police are involved. DON'T USE IT. It's not secure.

noxy , in [USA] Appeals court rules that cops can physically make you unlock your phone
@noxy@yiffit.net avatar

What an outrageously evil and dystopian ruling.

Maggoty , (edited )

Bending over backwards to find logic that lets cops ignore the Constitution.

If it's a search violation without biometrics then it's a search violation with biometrics. Next up they're going to rule that no matter how much you get recorded telling them you don't consent to a search, a search is legal as long as they can smash their way into your car.

UnrepententProcrastinator , in [USA] Appeals court rules that cops can physically make you unlock your phone

Just enter the wrong password a few times

setsneedtofeed ,
@setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world avatar

This is about biometrics, not passcodes.

hswolf ,
@hswolf@lemmy.world avatar

restart de phone, most of them will require the passcode at least once before enabling biometrics

setsneedtofeed , (edited )
@setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world avatar

That requires the freedom to do so. If it is a situation where the police interaction starts suddenly, there are many scenarios where this advice is not useful.

hswolf ,
@hswolf@lemmy.world avatar

You're correct, it's but an option. If you have the means to do so I'd go for It.

yamanii ,
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

He was handcuffed, I know we like to conjure up cool scenarios but realistically you won't have the time for this, better to remove biometrics.

hswolf ,
@hswolf@lemmy.world avatar

The statement is but an option, of course you couldn't handle your phone handcuffed, that would be extremely difficult.

It's merely a countermeasure prior to any altercations with officers, most phones automatically restarts if you press the power button for a few seconds.

I don't think having to resort to such things is cool, but I indeed had to do this once .

Where I live cops often unlawfully search you and check whatever they want. I was stopped at a traffic light, on the guise of a "drugs operation". Told the officer I'd pick my license and car register, picked those and restarted my phone in 5 seconds. Got out of the car, they searched and soon released me.

In this case nothing happend, but if you're somewhere where cops search unlawfully, and you were not stopped near an alleyway that cops can beat your password out of you with a wrench, I'd totally say you should restart your phone.

tocopherol , (edited ) in [USA] Appeals court rules that cops can physically make you unlock your phone
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Wasn't there a court ruling that forcing someone to unlock their phone was unconstitutional? The fourth amendment seems to indicate a warrent at least is required to search someone's papers, in the modern era that should apply to phones, obviously the constitution is meaningless if they want to do whatever but still.

Edit: in Riley v. California (2014) the Supreme Court unanimously decided that warrentless search of a cellphone during an arrest was unconstitutional.

Boozilla OP , (edited )
@Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

The laws vary from state to state, and I am not a lawyer. But in general, I think it works like this. Things like your fingerprints, face, retina, etc, identify you. In many states, if the cops ask for your identification you are required to give it to them, and they are allowed to force the issue. Things like passwords, access to the interior of your home or vehicle, access to your business files, and things like that are not your identity and normally require a judge to sign a warrant (unless there are "extenuating circumstances").

Personally, I think the forcing you to unlock your phone without a warrant is bullshit, especially since they have the upper hand anyway. And the phone isn't going anywhere and neither are you. In most cases they have plenty of time to get a warrant.

Madison420 ,

My house key identifies me almost as well as my license. Seems like if they can use my thumb to unlock and enter my phone they could use my house key to unlock and enter my house.

Boozilla OP ,
@Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

I guess the distinction might be: your fingerprints are physical attributes of your physical person. Your house & house key are objects / property owned by you.

LordWiggle , (edited )
@LordWiggle@lemmy.world avatar

So if you have a fingerprint smart lock cops don't need a warent to enter your house?

A phone is also property owned by you. Or by the company you work for, so it's not even yours.

setsneedtofeed , (edited )
@setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world avatar

There are two related but distinct issues, and I hope to keep them separate otherwise the conversation goes in circles:

1 - Can police under the circumstances look at the contents of the phone at all? This is to say, if the phone is completely unlocked, can they look through it?

2 - If the police are allowed to look at the contents, but the phone is locked, in what ways can the police unlock it?

Subject 1: This is by far the more important question, and the one that seems to get ignored in discussions of phone searches like this. I would argue that under most circumstances there is no probable cause to search a phone- the phone can not contain drugs or weapons or other contraband, so to me this is the larger hurdle for police. Police should have to justify what illegal thing they think is on the phone that gives them probable cause, and I don't think that pictures of illegal things are the same as the illegal things themselves. Lawyers would have to hash this out, because I do notice the suspect here was on parole so perhaps there is a clause of parole for this or something. But this is the bigger, much bigger issue- can police even look at the contents? There is an argument from the pro-search side that constants of an unlocked phone are in plain view, and so that right there is a big nexus for the issue.

Subject 2: If we assume yes, only then does subject 2 become an issue. How much can police compel? Well, they can't compel speech. A passcode would count as protected speech, so they can't compel that. Biometrics however, from what I have seen of court reasoning, tend to be viewed as something a person has rather than something they know. This would be analogue to a locked container with a combination lock compared to a key. The police can not compel the combo, but if they find they key in your pocket they can take it and use it.


If you are up in arms about privacy, my view is not to fall into the trap of focusing on 2 and the finer mechanics of where the line for what kinds of ways to lock a phone are, and focus on subject 1. Reduce the circumstances in which searching a phone is acceptable, even if the phone is unlocked to begin with.

bitwaba ,

Things like passwords, access to the interior of your home or vehicle, access to your business files, and things like that are not your identity and normally require a judge to sign a warrant

This is exactly it. If I get arrested and they confiscate my house keys as part of entering jail, they don't have automatic implicit permission to search my house.

AA5B ,

And I don’t understand how this is not a better analogy for phones. Why doesn’t the contents of my phone have the same legal protection as the contents of my house? You may confiscate my key but I do not permit. If you have good reason and sufficient reason, do the damn paperwork and get a judge to sign off

chiliedogg ,

This is why everyone should go into their phone settings and enable the lockdown mode option if it's avaialbe. When I get pulled over I hold the power button and choose lockdown mode and then the only thing that will unlock the phone is my password. But my camera still works.

If your phone doesn't have the option, just restart your phone. There's a reason phones require the password and not biometrics on startup.

Maggoty ,

The appeals courts are always willing to test SCOTUS decisions. Now it's up to SCOTUS to defend it or not. It was a unanimous decision, specifically based on data privacy rights. So there's actually hope for it.

Censored ,

This is really about how to ensure they can't unlock your phone even if they have a warrant. They can't physically force you to give them the right code. SO they have to buy expensive software to clone the phone and try various passwords on the clones.

A_Random_Idiot , (edited ) in [USA] Appeals court rules that cops can physically make you unlock your phone
@A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world avatar

can you set your phone to log into a different..desktop, for lack of a better term, if biometrics are used? while your main is hidden behind a passcode?

zarcher ,

You can have multiple users on android. Some plugin should be able to do such a thing.

MonkderDritte ,

Use shelter or insular for a "work" profile.

uis , in [USA] Appeals court rules that cops can physically make you unlock your phone
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

Maybe make that tapping your finger on scanner will actually wipe device?

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