(Read before Comment) Why you don't like GIMP UI?

For what i heard, a lot of people on the Linux community use Krita for image manipulation, even though, it's intended for digital painting, and GIMP is the one intended for image manipulation, because people don't like the GIMP's UI.

My issue is, i never understood why they don't like the GIMP's UI, since i never have issues with it,(Although it's probably because i'm used to the UI) so i need to adress this problem and ask you What does the GIMP UI has that you don't like or hate so much and why you like Krita's UI over GIMP's?

Before you event comment your answer i need to ask you to do the following:

  1. Address each specific issue along with an concise and direct explanation of why you don't like it

  2. Answers such as "I just don't like it", "I don't like where it's placed" or anything alike doesn't count as "Concise and Direct", we are adults, not 4 year old children.

  3. If you can provide a suggestion of how GIMP's UI can be improved, it would help a lot, and maybe this issue can be solved.

  4. If someone else commented something you were about to comment, upvote them, this way we can address the most common issues effectively.

  5. I need you to watch the screenshots of both UI's, because something that most people don't know, it's how similar Krita and GIMP's UIs are.

Krita's UI
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/60b262a6-7c9c-44f3-8c9b-86200b544f45.png

GIMP's UI
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/5c01ee4e-2a3c-485d-891b-36a4edd66d62.png

(Credits to a friend of mine for lettig me use the screenshots.)

My ideas on how GIMP can improve it's UI

  1. Adding the option of the new UI selected by default, but with the possibility to switch to the new UI.

  2. Possibly addding "work spaces" like Krita would help too, along with the possibility of exporting and importing them, this way people can have custom arrangements of the UI according to the kind of work they will do.

Thanks for reading and hopefully we can address this issue effectively.

potentiallynotfelix ,

I like it

FatLegTed ,
@FatLegTed@piefed.social avatar

Because the name begins with GIMP.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

That's not valid, personally i understand what it means to you since i made a small research because the auto Subtitles in Youtube do not show "GIMP", however, i need you to understand that GIMO stands for Gnu Image Manipulation Program.

And no, Glimpse is an abandoned project.

FatLegTed ,
@FatLegTed@piefed.social avatar

I know what GIMP stands for. I've been using it since it came out.
If you're going to be pedantic at least spell it correctly and not GIMO.

I have no idea what Glimpse is.

Goodbye

RayOfSunlight OP ,

That was a typo i didn't saw

Coskii ,
@Coskii@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Every time I install gimp in an attempt to switch over, I find myself frustrated that the tools I commonly use on other programs are not either available by default or unintuitive enough that 20 minutes of looking through tools, tabs, and menus has not provided the results I went looking for.

I try every few years, or every major update, whichever happens first.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

There are settings you can change to make the UI better for you, there's even a tutorial made by Davis Media Design that teaches how to make GIMP look like Photoshop CC 2020, alternatively, you can install the PhotoGIMP addon.

Coskii ,
@Coskii@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

This topic actually prompted me to google the answer to the one thing I had been looking for only to find that the answer is completely obtuse and kind of misleading, which is why I wasn't able to find it on my own.

Mustard ,

I remember when i first started using GIMP the thing that threw me the most was that there was no 'safe default' state that you could get to by pressing escape, like 'select' is for other programs.

If you think this is a small thing consider that escape/back is one of the only 3 default controls on phone UIs. It's super important and Gimp doesn't have it.

gandalf_der_12te ,
@gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

GIMP feels non-intuitive sometimes.

For example, layers.

I expect that GIMP internally has a list of all objects that I added to the file. Like, text, brush drawings, pasted images. Instead, I cannot find that list anywhere.

twei ,

That list is either the undo-menu or the layers themselves, as everything you do in GIMP is somewhat destructive. This behavior will be changed in GIMP 3 tho.

merthyr1831 ,

UI is dated, for one.

range inputs can't be scrolled, dragged around the screen, and are absurdly small on high DPI screens.

There's a load of UX issues, such as how pasting content will create a new layer that is for some reason more limited than a typical layer.

Feature discoverability is poor. Most features are buried in years-old dropdown tabs that aren't kept up to date with UI/UX expectations.

Some features are incredibly obtuse in how they explain themselves: selecting a brush dynamic selects stuff from a massive scrolling list with nothing but a title to explain what they do.

UI is inconsistent. Some elements are clearly older than others even after ""recent"" (years-old) updates.

There's way more, btw. But honestly if this years-long push to get GIMP to GTK 3 has told me anything, it's that the project should've canned the update years ago and written an entirely new app from scratch, dropping the technical debt, the archaic choice of language and UI toolkit, and they still would've come out with a new version faster than they have now.

Hadriscus ,

How would writing an entire program be faster than upgrading an already fully functioning one ? I don't see the logic ?

HatchetHaro ,
@HatchetHaro@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I'm just looking through this entire thread, and call me crazy, OP, but you seem angry not more people are using GIMP. You're quite aggressive about it, attempting to shut down legitimate UI and UX concerns at every corner, and it is genuinely fatiguing to see.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

Just saying, using Krita for Image Manipulation it's like using a Driller to cut wood, that's the wrong tool for the job.

HatchetHaro ,
@HatchetHaro@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

If it works for them, then it's not the wrong tool for the job.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

No, that's like cutting wood with a kitchen knife

HatchetHaro ,
@HatchetHaro@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

In your opinion, sure.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

Bruh, Even the Krita devs themselves say that Krita is made for Digital Painting

MXX53 ,

I can never put my finger on why I don't stick with GIMP. I install it on every machine I own, and occasionally use it to open a file and export to another file format.

From time to time, I tell myself I will finally sit down and just only use GIMP. Finally learn the tool. Envitably I find myself googling to find every tool, and then I will come across something simple, like making a red rectangle, and I end up having to google how to do it, and then get frustrated that I can't just draw a box and quit.

There are probably legit reasons for the decisions, but if it kills my workflow, I can't afford to use it.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

Doesn't mean Krita will do the job for you either.

MXX53 ,

That's correct. But I don't remember if I said it would or not.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

The Krita devs themselves said it, it is intended for Digital Painting

MXX53 ,

I'm confused. My post is about my experience with GIMP. What does Krita have to do with what I posted?

NoiseColor ,

I tried it last year in a failed attempt to get of ps, which I to every few years.

I can't name specifics, but ps is just more intuitive, more user friendly, faster, more stable, gives you more for formats... I don't even think ps is all that. Even if we forget Adobe owns the pro space here, it's just not viable to use gimp professionaly.
I never understood why gimp doesn't just copy all the user flows from photoshop when it's clear that not only they work, but all users are familiar with them from other software.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

There's a reason of why GIMP doesn't copy things, it's not a Photoshop clone, but you can modify the UI to make it more like Photoshop, in fact, here is a video on how to do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY7g2JGyJeQ

An alternative option is downloading PhotoGIMP Addon for GIMP, but i consider this to be a better option.

NoiseColor ,

I understand it's not a clone, but the truth is ps has a much better ux. There is no reason to not to copy the better ux.

I tried this plugin, it does very little to make the experience better, it actually makes it worse because it's more difficult to find things, when you can't easily Google to find them.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

Yes, but with Photoshop (If you are paying the creative cloud) You'll be paying 60$ a mlnth which translates to 720$ a year every year for the rest of your natural born creative life.

Also, what functions are you trying to find anyway?

NoiseColor ,

I'm paying 36 per month for the whole creative cloud. Whole. Photoshop, illustrator, AE,...
It's been a few months, but all of them are just better. Unfortunately it is what it is. And now, now with ai, it's the only option reasonable.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

So you're letting yourself be a slave of the company and food for the bloodsuckers?

Edit: Not to mention that the software LITERALLY it's not yours, you're just paying a license that isn't perpetual, so they can revoke it from you to make you stop using it if they want to.

NoiseColor ,

I pay monthly fees for lots of stuff. A newspaper, Internet, water and heating,...
For sure I'd rather not, but I mostly I don't have an alternative option. With Adobe the case is such.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

there ARE alternatives to Adobe Suite, here's an article that talks about it https://notes.ghed.in/posts/2022/free-software-design-studios/

But in short:

Lightroom > Darktable
Premier Pro > Kdenlive
Ilustrator > Inkscape
Adobe Audio Studio(I forgot the name) > Tenacity(Fork of Audacity)

You may also take a look at alternativeto.net to find more alternatives to more stuff

NoiseColor ,

:)

Tried them all. They don't compare.

There are some that can be replaced easily, like Adobe premier, maybe even after effects. Audacity for sure. Not indesign, Not illustrator, not photoshop.
Not only because the alternative are worse, but because everyone else uses Adobe and its incredibly easier to collaborate. If you are a pro in graphic design, like a real pro that these tools are a daily use, you can't use anything else but Adobe.

RayOfSunlight OP , (edited )

Can't really compare Commercial Software with FOSS since both have different objectives, Adobe wants to empty your wallet and credit card along with everyone else's, and FOSS focus on bringing great functioning alternatives

NoiseColor ,

I'm sure you can get even more poetic about it without trying too hard, but at the end of the day you still end up with a tool that does the job significantly better and faster than the alternative - a tool that brings more value even though it costs more money.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

Adobe only cares about how much they are squeezing from you, companies are not your friend.

But dang, you're hopeless.

NoiseColor ,

Your still don't get it.
Adobe brings the user more value, because using their software users are able to work quicker, finishing more work and earning more money. Adobe subscription is negligible. Freelancers earn more in an hour of work. But save a lot more.

Even people like me, who are for some weird reason especially inclined to use FOSS, we try to dabble in it, every few years check is anything has changed. But it doesn't. It remains the same. Pros can't afford not to use the best software and nothing comes close to ps, ai. Sad but true.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

"Brings the user more value"

What kind of value? You literally don't own the software, it's more directed to companies rather than individuals and freelancers, not to mention it gets expensive.

NoiseColor ,

I will only repeat this once more :
Full Adobe package costs me less than an hour of work per month.
Adobe software makes me save more than an hour per month (probably more like an hour per day).

That is an equation. An equation that favours Adobe against the alternatives.

There are no feelings here, just an equation of time and money.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

You're hopeless

NoiseColor ,

In hopeless because I prefer to work more efficiently, faster and to make more money instead of less. Yes, I guess I am hopeless in that kind of way.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

No, you're hopeless because you're letting the company control you and suck your bank account dry and you don't see how companies are, in the end, they are very likely to kill the entire world just to keep all the money.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

Oh i forgot, Adobe threatened users with taking legal actions against them if they don't updtae to the lastest version of their software once, DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY CARE ABOUT YOU? 😂

NoiseColor ,

Are you off your meds?
I'm not taking about who cares about who. I'm pretty sure gimp developers don't care about me either.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

They are not a company, and no, i don't consume drugs of any kind, they never brought anything good to this world.

chameleon ,
@chameleon@kbin.social avatar

It's not what the buttons look like, it's what they do. In Krita, making an ellipse involves clicking the ellipse button and dragging it somewhere. You now have an ellipse, and you hold shift if you want to make it a circle instead.

In GIMP there is no direct ellipse tool, there's only an ellipse select tool, likewise you hold shift to make it a circle. Then you use a menu item to select the border of your selection, getting a popup to let you determine how much pixels you want. And then, you use the fill tool or fill menu item to fill it. That's a surprising amount of clicks to accomplish what's most likely the single most common task for anyone opening a screenshot in an image editor. I'm not aware of any easier/faster method to do it. Feels like it should exist, but this is also what you get if you search for how to draw a circle in GIMP, so if it exists everyone's missing it.

GIMP's method gives you more power, but you rarely ever need that power. But when you do, Krita also has ellipse select, border select and various fill tools that can be strung together in the same way.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

Hm, yeah, i never used the Elipse tool, i guess yeah, that should give the advance settings as an option, but going simple should be first, wish we could reach out the devs, but it's not an easy task. :/

TheJack ,

As others have mentioned, it's simple things takes alot time finding/figuring out.

I use GIMP within Ubuntu MATE few times a week to edit pictures. Simple edits nothing major.

One of the thing I need regularly is to highlight certain part of the picture.

Now in Microsoft Paint I can draw a rectangle, choose its border thickness, and color in 2 seconds.

I have learned how to do the same in GIMP few times but it took alot of time and I still forgets after few weeks.

So now I just reboot the PC and log into Windows or use Windows virtual machine and draw rectangle in 2 seconds in Microsoft Paint.

Mine is extremely simple use case, so I can only guess how difficult or how time consuming it would be for actual professional to create artistic work in GIMP vs Photoshop (or in similar commercial software).

Just my 2 cents.

klangcola ,

I hope you're joking about rebooting to Windows for paint 😁

But just in case, and for the benefit of others: KolourPaint

It's basically KDE Paint, and works great as a simple image editor

nasi_goreng ,
@nasi_goreng@lemmy.zip avatar

The default toolbox placement is should be conform with other design software.

Sure, people can figure it out once they tried it, but majority of them will move to another software that has familiar experience out of the box.

When people asking me to install GIMP, I always change it to this layout, making it more familiar to another software like Inkscape, Krita, Affinity suites, Photoshop (and other Adobe software), etc.
https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/6c22ab87-c626-49e4-bcf4-4e9c8ca9c625.webp

RayOfSunlight OP ,

Maybe i am very used to the default layout, it would be also good that people would watch this video, it would help them a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY7g2JGyJeQ

nasi_goreng ,
@nasi_goreng@lemmy.zip avatar

Average people will simply search app that has the most familiarity, so "looking for additional workaround" is often irrelevant.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

God damn it i hate when people are lazy and quick to judge.

dustyData ,

All I want is to GIMP to save tabs layout as workspaces. That is enough. Part of GIMP hate is based on 15 year old complaints. Just like people still complains today about stuff of Linux that has been resolved for decades. It's just memery that has stuck around.

There are issues with GIMP, but none are about the stuff most people meme about in social media. Every tool has room to grow, but GIMP UI suffers from the “too amateur to know what's wrong” loud majority effect. Imagine someone who has no concept of music appreciation in their lives sits at the front of a grand organ. Then proceeds to complain that the pedals get in the way of sitting on the stool and that he founds the three keyboards redundant and unintuitive. This notion is valid, from his point of view. But it informs nothing about the usability of that particular instrument for a professional organ player.

The same thing tends to happen with several software packages, specially the open source ones. Since they don't have the industry standard tag, they don't get any leniency when it comes to learning their features and capabilities. Then, when the amateur checks them out, they don't compare it to the industry standard (which does have a leniency license) but compare it to the simplified, accessible for everyone and strip down apps. These people don't have the foresight to understand that this tool is capable of way more than their reference point, and the initial friction is an indicator of their inexperience, not of the tool's quality or potential.

The amateur is more comfortable sitting in front of a Casio learner piano. And we shouldn't lend much credence to their feedback about the ergonomics or key feel of a Steinway concert grand.

NoiseColor ,

You are complaining about the amateur? A pro will never use gimp. Ps is too integrated into professional work, not too mention it has a better ux, it's more stable, uses more for formats, had better support,... The semi pros still prefer to use affinity. You are only left with amateurs! And still, they prefer to use krita, a program not even meant for this kind of work!!!

There is no doubt that there are big problems with gimp.

dustyData ,

You missed the point of my post. You're right in that you are left with amateurs as an audience. But, and it is a big but, the amateurs aren't comparing you to Photoshop, they are comparing you to the UX friendly app they have on their phone (no matter if they say otherwise). Yet the pro won't ever give GIMP any chance because it doesn't carry the “industry standard” label and the privilege that comes with it. When people are learning graphic design or photoediting they are mandated to learn Photoshop. Either by a rigid teaching system or the cultural environment prevalent amongst the people with strong passion to learn on their own. The result is that a lot of UX and UI quirks and headaches (which photoshop does have, let's not lie to ourselves here) are overlooked or just accepted as the norm. Humans can adapt to a lot of fuckery and bad design, that doesn't make it good UX. GIMP does not have the label, leniency or benefit of the doubt from anyone. Just read this thread, people complaining and whining about the default layout. No one has addressed the things that GIMP does better UX wise or when ways to overcome its shortcoming are mentioned people react with hostility and denial. Most even admit that they have never used GIMP or that they have no business anywhere near an image editor. But here we are, discussing the opinions of the peanut gallery based on feefees and second hand vibes.

NoiseColor ,

Pros don't give gimp a chance but many of us still test try it. It's not viable, not only because Adobe is a must have because of interoperability but because it's faster to work in, it's faster, more stable, more supported,... literally there is no category in which it was worse. Ux is not the best for sure, but it's still way better than gimp.
Even more, everything works in the same patterns as the users expect. Same as other graphical programs. It's easier to use, easier to switch, easier to use similar software. That's ux. Gimp doesn't have that.

Because of all that, it doesn't have a target audience beyond someone who is just very determined to use something free.

dustyData ,

See, the thing with this argument is that, however much I agree with the basic idea, it's still not useful. We can agree, sure, that overall the UI and UX (two different things) on GIMP is not as subjectively good as Photoshop. But saying, it's easier, it's faster, it's whatever, still does not help at all. It's still all just vibes and impressions, it's not actionable.

“The default UI is not like Photoshop” is inactionable. It's different from the opinions I left on this thread. That GIMP need to have a way to save and reload layouts, that's an specific feedback, concise, concrete and actionable. I also agree that some workflows take too many clicks, maybe have simplified tools to do common actions. That is also actionable, specific, concrete.

Your comment offers nothing to go on with. It even manages to ignore and bypass my criticism, it doesn't address the “Industry standard” bias and privilege. Because when pros try GIMP the response “It doesn't work the way I expected and are used to, so I don't like it” is a garbage feedback. The only thing you are offering is “clone photoshop”, and that's just not what the project has ever been about, or will ever be about. So the conversation is fruitless.

NoiseColor ,

What is actionable? Maybe this :Make ux more like ps so more people will be able to use it or want to use it? :)

You want small things to fix? Small actionable things. I'm saying there is a broader issue that you cannot easily patch.
I don't care about your criticism of ps, many people have tons of criticism, I have tons, none of it matters with the situation at hand.

What was gimp project about? Pushing users away with design patterns that exist nowhere else?

dustyData ,

OK, in terms you understand. The criticism "GIMP is not like Photoshop" is crap advice, its shit and your shitty attitude is offensive and insulting to the hard work of devs. Go keep sucking the adobe boot since you seem to like the taste of dirt on leather so much. "Just clone Photoshop" is a meme useless attitude to have.

Andy ,
@Andy@programming.dev avatar

I have trouble with both, but more experience with GIMP. I can't stand all the little tool buttons with no text. I want the name of each tool always visible on its button.

I have the same problem with Inkscape.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

You know you can do this, right?
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/953b5fc7-0a20-4859-9b76-95afbdcef497.png

Andy ,
@Andy@programming.dev avatar

I don't know what I should be noticing there. I can't see any text for the tool buttons along the left edge of the window.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

Look at the default GIMP layout and my post and compare it with the one i gave you

Andy ,
@Andy@programming.dev avatar

OK, I see some differences between your two screenshots, but what's the relevance to my comment?

RayOfSunlight OP ,

What i mean is, you can Rearrange the UI to look like Photoshop.

Andy ,
@Andy@programming.dev avatar

So . . . not relevant to my comment?

HubertManne ,

This sounds a lot like how people would use windows paint for simple things over photoshop. Many folks just want a simplified tool. I was estatic to find out firefox now gives simple pdf editing capabilities instead of me importing it into libre office draw.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

I guess i am so used to the layout i barely have a problem, but finding things in GIMP, isn't it the same as Photoshop? I mean, maybe not for Krita, but in GIMP you can change the settings so the tools are all visible instead of being on little boxes.

HubertManne ,

Im not sure but im guessing most people complain because they want something intuitive and easy although my wife uses photoshop and I could not get her to use gimp so the layout must be different to some degree.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

You can modify the UI to make it look like Photoshop, there are two ways for this:

  1. Making GIMP look like Photoshop CC 2020 by Davis Media Design
    https://youtu.be/dY7g2JGyJeQ?si=AQ3uYQxHb7uG0xd3

  2. Installing the PhotoGIMP addon for GIMP, also by Davis Media Design
    https://youtu.be/57DNUsf4A-0?si=XSCZhf_6rf4k25qx

I would personally recommend the first one, but it's up to you.

HubertManne ,

thing is I don't use photoshop. my wife does. its hard to explain her personality but im not using any convincing chips on this particular battle as we have more important things to get handled. Maybe someday.

RayOfSunlight OP ,

Well, here's one final advice from my part.

Go slow and gradual

Changes are not easy, you need to get hang of GIMP before makig the switch, try it, learn to use it, see if you like it.

Another alternative is Photopea, but it's propietary and it's a browser application, although it's available in Flathub.

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