Will I ever be seen as truly British?

My family immigrated to the UK from Poland when I was six. I'm 20 now, speak much better English than Polish and feel like this is my land/culture. However I have a Polish first and last name, Polish passport and "unique" accent everyone picks up on, so despite this I'm usually perceived as an outsider. It makes me really sad because I don't "belong" in Poland anymore either. Everything seems so complicated especially as I've gotten older with having to get the right documentation for work and opening a bank account and etc also.... Not even sure if I can vote in the next general election even though I feel like I should be able to?

I've had a few nasty instances of being told to go back to my own country, even had a conker thrown at my head while a boy yelled Polski at me in year 11, and tbh even just been seen as a novelty and being asked to say something in Polish has gotten really old. I guess I'm just wondering if I'll ever truly fit in. For some context, I grew up in North England and now live in Wales

squid_slime ,
@squid_slime@lemm.ee avatar

No ones truly anything, nationalism is a horrid thing and sorry people have treated you as they have, its more they're own insecurity then anything to do with you.

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

For what it's worth, if you've lived here since you were six, I'd absolutely consider you British.

British with Polish roots maybe, and perhaps officially Polish in legal terms (re your passport), but this is your home, so perception-wise I'd definitely call you British.

Re working and voting, that's where it gets more complicated and I don't know what the rules say, although it would seem hugely unfair for you not to have those rights having lived here for such a large proportion of your life. You could maybe try your local Citizen's Advice Bureau for more informed advice on those points.

Sorry you experienced the kind of abuse/patronising attitudes as you describe - some people are just arseholes unfortunately. Doesn't make them right though.

I hope that things get easier for you, and that as time passes you feel more accepted by those around you and are able to take part in regular life as much as possible.

Dreizehn ,
@Dreizehn@kbin.social avatar

The bloody Red Coats or as we call them in German, "Inselaffen." Tell them Rule Britannia sank long ago and the Polish 303 Squadron saved their asses during WW II. Keep your EU passport too, it's an excellent insurance policy in case shit goes wrong.

rimu ,
@rimu@piefed.social avatar

You might feel more comfortable in a larger city. In London every person you meet has a different accent, it's amazing.

LainTrain ,

Not in the UK alongside British people for sure.

I'm in the same boat but not from Poland and I came over a tad later (12) but I'm also 5 years older.

I don't actually have an accent inherently but I always use an American one to obscure my country of origin.

It's really quite a backwards little country and they have an insular culture and hot opinions on 'de immigants' amongst other things, they're just polite enough to keep it to the voting booth most of the time until the the child alcoholism and the FAS kicks in.

They will always see you as defined by your nationality first because to them, it makes you fundamentally different as a person because they themselves are fundamentally defined by their nationality - (you can often tell by how much they rely on this as material for 'banter') - rather than how many other people see it - as a random side note of historical background of yet another human on this planet - a citizen of the world if you will.

I recall meeting a friend group of my S.O. who's been here all her life and went to school with those people and still the occasional joke about her country of origin gets a big laugh, not to mention the only brown person at the table only ever joked and got joked to about being Muslim, it wasn't offensive or anything, but you'd think the guy was a hardcore religious leader by how much it came up when he seemed like just some guy to me.

They might keep you around to pitch in with a fun fact about Poland (even if you don't really know any) or say something funny (to them) in your accent/language, but you'll never be actually British and treated as just another one of the peeps about the place.

Try to surround yourself with other people from diverse backgrounds if you can, which won't be possible in the norf (idk about Wales, never been) but you can definitely do this in London as British people are far and few between and so long as you steer clear of other majorly represented insular ethnic groups you can maybe find a multinational clique or what I had more luck with - an eastern european one with similar levels of integration and shared interests etc., and maybe consider living or visiting elsewhere, like the US which is far more diverse and your background matters far less.

Hope this helps.

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

British people are few and far between in London? Ok then.

LainTrain ,

Compared to the rest of the country in the ethnic-cultural sense? Yeah absolutely.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_London

London is 36.8% White British

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester

For comparison a major metropolitan area like the city of Manchester is 59.3% White British

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_and_Hove#

Brighton is 80.5% White British

Furthermore in London, 40.7% of people are born in another country, and 56.8% of people are born to a foreign-born mother. This is of course including those who identify as White British on the census.

That's what makes London so different from the rest of the country imo, and a way better place to be as a young person who doesn't feel like they belong elsewhere.

livus ,

We all agree London is cosmopolitan.

I think they were objecting to the phrase "few and far between".

You really can't use it to describe a situation of almost 2 in 5.

If 2 in every 5 cars you see are red you can't say red cars are few and far between.

LainTrain ,

Oh sure. I was speaking relatively.

CalciumDeficiency OP ,

Bloody expensive though

LainTrain ,

Yee, 's why I left.

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

Compared to the rest of the country in the ethnic-cultural sense? Yeah absolutely.

Nobody disputes that London has a substantially more diverse population than other places - but it's still completely untrue to say "British people are few and far between" in London, even if you restrict it to White British (which your original claim did not).

LainTrain ,

Simmer down buddy, no need to get your blood pressure up - I clarified the statement didn't I?

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

Blood pressure is fine, thanks.

You did, but I wasn't wrong to object to your original, unclarified claim.

The reason I did is that it's the kind of thing that you hear being used as a racist dog whistle - "Oh, there are parts of London that are no-go areas, you never see a white face..." etc.

I'm not saying you were doing that, but the way you worded it left it open to that interpretation.

LainTrain ,

Ah in that case yeah I definitely did not mean it that way, but it's also not a good look for the left to come off as to utterly deny demographics when facts are very easy to find, especially if you have a pro-immigration stance.

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

it's also not a good look for the left to come off as to utterly deny demographics

Not sure if you mean me here, but I didn't think I was doing that at all.

cabbage ,
@cabbage@piefed.social avatar

You'll never be anything less than what you are, but that's a strength. Just speaking two languages well already puts you at an advantage. The experiences you have of seeing the cultures in relation to each other also gives you an edge.

Sometimes it's nice to be able to just blend in, but life is all about learning and gathering experiences and impressions, and you have a head start. It might not always be easy, but you'll learn to appreciate it.

And as long as Poland is in the EU I'd much rather have a Polish passport than an English one.

ArbitraryValue ,

I know the feeling. I've been in the USA for decades, almost my entire life, but as soon as I say anything, everyone can immediately hear that I'm not American. People who ask me about it are well-meaning and curious. I still don't like it, but I try not to show it.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

That well meaning curiosity is the America I know.

I was born in North Carolina, I speak with a textbook Piedmont white guy drawl. I'm as American as high fructose corn syrup, no question. Here's some hell I've caught: Europeans struggle to cope when I describe myself as "German and a little Scottish." To me, that's my ethnic background, to a lot of Europeans I've argued with, it's stolen valor. "You're not personally from Germany, you aren't German." Then explain my genome. Or my surname.

I think us who live in the New World have a whole different understanding of diaspora.

aasatru ,
@aasatru@kbin.earth avatar

Well, imagine you meet a guy travelling through the US. He's wearing lederhosen, has a freaking feather in his hat, and speaks with a heavy German accent. You ask where he's from, and he says he's American/Italian, as his maternal grandfather was born in the US and his grandmother on his father's side is Italian. However, this is his first time outside of Germany, and he speaks no Italian and hardly any English.

This is what Americans tend to look like to Europeans.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

See what I mean? And I bet Herr Wernher von Bianchi would have way more interesting stories to tell than most genuine Germans.

Reminds me of Japanese drivers licenses, which don't have a field for eye or hair color the way Western ones do. Not pertinent information in Japan where virtually everyone has black hair and brown eyes, it's like having a field for tongue color. The answer for everyone is "What? Reddish pink I guess? Why?"

Now imagine you're making a form for people to fill out about their background and personal history. Europeans apparently cannot imagine needing more than one line to answer the question "Where are you from?" because of how short and boring their own answers always are.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Say you have German and Scottish ancestry. Omitting that part makes it sound like you're saying you're culturally German and Scottish.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

I knew they'd come out of the woodwork to make my point for me.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

I mean, if they're being an asshole about it there's no excuse - it's just imprecise wording that may cause confusion.

xmunk ,

Bigots don't define labels - if you think you're British you're British enough for me.

I'm an immigrant as well (though the cultural differences between Canada and America are much less evident) and anyone who says I'm not Canadian can get fucking bent.

TOModera ,

Born Canuck here. Yes one of us, ya hoser.

xmunk ,

The moment I started saying zed by default, I knew it!

stembolts ,

Before reading, know that my response is mostly off-topic.

As an American it always seemed strange to me the perception of someone as an outsider. I know other Americans do it too so it's not like we are some special snowflake country, we have a lot of intolerance of course.

But idk, to me Americans have all sorts of accents, indian/asian, hispanic, african, australian, whatever. I never considered that someone who sounds different wouldn't be the same as every other American.

Not sure if this train of thought is shared by other countries. I have heard that Japanese people will basically never consider anyone not native to Japan as anything other than foreign. That is a strange thought to me.

I guess I'm bad at being bigoted.

CalciumDeficiency OP ,

Maybe because they're both island nations with an isolationist culture, but there are definitely parallels to be drawn between the treatment foreigners get in the UK and in Japan. Growing up, being Polish was the identity others assigned to me and how they identified me and the main way in which I was described, and people make a lot of assumptions about me based on it. I used to get asked if I was Jewish a lot growing up because I have pretty stereotypically Slavic features, for example, and one time a teacher described me as "sallow skinned" after seeing I have an ethnic name on the school register.

zephorah ,

We’re a larger melting pot. In fact, that’s kind of our schtick. In spite of the racial shit, it swings entirely the other way as well. It’s a big country. England doesn’t cover a lot of surface area. 68million vs 341.5million.

Regionally there’s dialect nuance based on immigration. We’re a country of immigrants. If we’re discussing Poland then let’s talk Wisconsin. You can’t throw a stick in any direction without hitting a “ski” last name. People actually say shit like “borrow me your car Friday” or “borrow me a pencil”, instead of “lend”. My understanding is borrow and lend are the same word in Polish, context telling you what you need to know. All without identifying as Polish, just Midwest American, as far as I can tell. Even though we’re younger as a country, we’ve had time for that to happen.

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

People actually say shit like “borrow me your car Friday” or “borrow me a pencil”, instead of “lend”.

That's correct. The distinction between lender and borrower is given by the case, so the same verb works for both.

trolololol ,

Australia is great at this. It has a crazy number of migrants, if I'm not mistaken 50% of people is either 1st Gen Australian or 0th Gen like OP and me.

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

I think that the key difference is that plenty societies were built with the "immigration" mindset. It isn't just the ones in USA, but mostly the whole New World. And even if the "bulk" of the immigration in the XIX and XX centuries is over, the mindset is still here.

As opposed to the typical society in the Old World where, if you were born somewhere, odds are that your grand-grand-grand-grandparents were also born there, like Japan and UK-minus-London.

user224 ,
@user224@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I am afraid not.
It's with you like race. You can't change it.
If you're part of any minority you'll always attract these dumbasses.

Sorry, I'd like to tell you something better.

Oh, and the "Say something in Polish" may very well be meant well, even if it's annoying. Nobody but you knows how often you hear it.

kambusha ,

Smile, wave politely, and swear in Polish. Kurva.

lath ,

That word is too well known nowadays. Needs another one.

Dicska ,

Spierdalaj should do it.

lath ,

It's on point.

TheReturnOfPEB ,

Perhaps recognize your truly cosmopolitan background as a citizen of the world ? Maybe fitting in nowhere is the beginning of fitting in everywhere ?

And grab that slur with both hands, flip it, and make it your own.

Timecircleline ,

I'm not sure if you're able to pursue citizenship, if it's something you're after, but in terms of the "unique" accent- you don't owe anybody an answer if they ask "where are you from?"

You can tell them you're English. You can tell them you grew up in England, truthfully. You can tell them English is the only language you speak. You don't owe anyone your backstory. If you're feeling petty or vindictive you can lie and say you have a speech impediment. I know their intentions are likely good but by inquiring about your accent, they are othering you. It's up to you how you'd like to respond.

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