Will I ever be seen as truly British?

My family immigrated to the UK from Poland when I was six. I'm 20 now, speak much better English than Polish and feel like this is my land/culture. However I have a Polish first and last name, Polish passport and "unique" accent everyone picks up on, so despite this I'm usually perceived as an outsider. It makes me really sad because I don't "belong" in Poland anymore either. Everything seems so complicated especially as I've gotten older with having to get the right documentation for work and opening a bank account and etc also.... Not even sure if I can vote in the next general election even though I feel like I should be able to?

I've had a few nasty instances of being told to go back to my own country, even had a conker thrown at my head while a boy yelled Polski at me in year 11, and tbh even just been seen as a novelty and being asked to say something in Polish has gotten really old. I guess I'm just wondering if I'll ever truly fit in. For some context, I grew up in North England and now live in Wales

ArbitraryValue ,

I know the feeling. I've been in the USA for decades, almost my entire life, but as soon as I say anything, everyone can immediately hear that I'm not American. People who ask me about it are well-meaning and curious. I still don't like it, but I try not to show it.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

That well meaning curiosity is the America I know.

I was born in North Carolina, I speak with a textbook Piedmont white guy drawl. I'm as American as high fructose corn syrup, no question. Here's some hell I've caught: Europeans struggle to cope when I describe myself as "German and a little Scottish." To me, that's my ethnic background, to a lot of Europeans I've argued with, it's stolen valor. "You're not personally from Germany, you aren't German." Then explain my genome. Or my surname.

I think us who live in the New World have a whole different understanding of diaspora.

aasatru ,
@aasatru@kbin.earth avatar

Well, imagine you meet a guy travelling through the US. He's wearing lederhosen, has a freaking feather in his hat, and speaks with a heavy German accent. You ask where he's from, and he says he's American/Italian, as his maternal grandfather was born in the US and his grandmother on his father's side is Italian. However, this is his first time outside of Germany, and he speaks no Italian and hardly any English.

This is what Americans tend to look like to Europeans.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

See what I mean? And I bet Herr Wernher von Bianchi would have way more interesting stories to tell than most genuine Germans.

Reminds me of Japanese drivers licenses, which don't have a field for eye or hair color the way Western ones do. Not pertinent information in Japan where virtually everyone has black hair and brown eyes, it's like having a field for tongue color. The answer for everyone is "What? Reddish pink I guess? Why?"

Now imagine you're making a form for people to fill out about their background and personal history. Europeans apparently cannot imagine needing more than one line to answer the question "Where are you from?" because of how short and boring their own answers always are.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Say you have German and Scottish ancestry. Omitting that part makes it sound like you're saying you're culturally German and Scottish.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

I knew they'd come out of the woodwork to make my point for me.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

I mean, if they're being an asshole about it there's no excuse - it's just imprecise wording that may cause confusion.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

You're culturally British, therefore you're British.

LainTrain ,

Not in the UK alongside British people for sure.

I'm in the same boat but not from Poland and I came over a tad later (12) but I'm also 5 years older.

I don't actually have an accent inherently but I always use an American one to obscure my country of origin.

It's really quite a backwards little country and they have an insular culture and hot opinions on 'de immigants' amongst other things, they're just polite enough to keep it to the voting booth most of the time until the the child alcoholism and the FAS kicks in.

They will always see you as defined by your nationality first because to them, it makes you fundamentally different as a person because they themselves are fundamentally defined by their nationality - (you can often tell by how much they rely on this as material for 'banter') - rather than how many other people see it - as a random side note of historical background of yet another human on this planet - a citizen of the world if you will.

I recall meeting a friend group of my S.O. who's been here all her life and went to school with those people and still the occasional joke about her country of origin gets a big laugh, not to mention the only brown person at the table only ever joked and got joked to about being Muslim, it wasn't offensive or anything, but you'd think the guy was a hardcore religious leader by how much it came up when he seemed like just some guy to me.

They might keep you around to pitch in with a fun fact about Poland (even if you don't really know any) or say something funny (to them) in your accent/language, but you'll never be actually British and treated as just another one of the peeps about the place.

Try to surround yourself with other people from diverse backgrounds if you can, which won't be possible in the norf (idk about Wales, never been) but you can definitely do this in London as British people are far and few between and so long as you steer clear of other majorly represented insular ethnic groups you can maybe find a multinational clique or what I had more luck with - an eastern european one with similar levels of integration and shared interests etc., and maybe consider living or visiting elsewhere, like the US which is far more diverse and your background matters far less.

Hope this helps.

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

British people are few and far between in London? Ok then.

LainTrain ,

Compared to the rest of the country in the ethnic-cultural sense? Yeah absolutely.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_London

London is 36.8% White British

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester

For comparison a major metropolitan area like the city of Manchester is 59.3% White British

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_and_Hove#

Brighton is 80.5% White British

Furthermore in London, 40.7% of people are born in another country, and 56.8% of people are born to a foreign-born mother. This is of course including those who identify as White British on the census.

That's what makes London so different from the rest of the country imo, and a way better place to be as a young person who doesn't feel like they belong elsewhere.

livus ,

We all agree London is cosmopolitan.

I think they were objecting to the phrase "few and far between".

You really can't use it to describe a situation of almost 2 in 5.

If 2 in every 5 cars you see are red you can't say red cars are few and far between.

LainTrain ,

Oh sure. I was speaking relatively.

CalciumDeficiency OP ,

Bloody expensive though

LainTrain ,

Yee, 's why I left.

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

Compared to the rest of the country in the ethnic-cultural sense? Yeah absolutely.

Nobody disputes that London has a substantially more diverse population than other places - but it's still completely untrue to say "British people are few and far between" in London, even if you restrict it to White British (which your original claim did not).

LainTrain ,

Simmer down buddy, no need to get your blood pressure up - I clarified the statement didn't I?

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

Blood pressure is fine, thanks.

You did, but I wasn't wrong to object to your original, unclarified claim.

The reason I did is that it's the kind of thing that you hear being used as a racist dog whistle - "Oh, there are parts of London that are no-go areas, you never see a white face..." etc.

I'm not saying you were doing that, but the way you worded it left it open to that interpretation.

LainTrain ,

Ah in that case yeah I definitely did not mean it that way, but it's also not a good look for the left to come off as to utterly deny demographics when facts are very easy to find, especially if you have a pro-immigration stance.

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

it's also not a good look for the left to come off as to utterly deny demographics

Not sure if you mean me here, but I didn't think I was doing that at all.

MonkderDritte ,

Will you ever be yourself?

Legend ,

Will yourself ever be you ?

Devi ,

Knowing what a conker is makes you super British.

evening_push579 ,

Please explain
/Non-British

Insig ,

It's the name/game given to chestnuts where you put a hole through the chestnut and pass some string through and tie it off.

The game is simple you try and break your opponents conker with yours. Taken turns.

The defender holds the string steady with his conker straight down

The attacker uses his conker to try and break the defenders using a sort of downwards flick.

Devi ,

Horse chestnuts, not chestnuts, chestnuts are soft and you eat them on bonfire night, horse chestnuts are hard and you can crack skulls with them.

VindictiveJudge ,
@VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, I'm American and have no idea what a conker is unless it's having a bad fur day.

GreatAlbatross ,
@GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk avatar

You will be truly British once you register on feddit.uk

In seriousness, I like to think it's a state of mind. If you find yourself generally aligning most with the more positive British attitudes, you're British. Though living in Wales, you may end up feeling more Welsh eventually!

If you want to feel more connected, try getting involved with local festivities and traditions.
Explore the countryside with the Ramblers. Do some pub quizzes. Go to a folk festival.
The sorts of things that involve you with pleasant people.

otp ,

Whenever someone asks where you're from, just get more specific with where you grew up. Never with where your parents or ancestors are from.

Country. County. Town. District. Block. Nearest intersection or landmark. Which room of the house was yours.

If they don't get the picture or ask about your background, you could say "I thought you wanted to know about me, not my parents".

CalciumDeficiency OP ,

This is genius

volvoxvsmarla ,

That's how I handled my high school year abroad. Because I literally came from Germany, I replied to that question with "I am from Germany". Not "I am German", but "from Germany". I was born and raised there and only lived there. Only if it came up (e.g. because of my passport) or made sense in context, I mentioned that I am a Russian from Germany. So basically most people only found out about my genetics five months in. But of course that works much easier when you pass due to looks and accent.

moistclump ,

Where are you from? London. No. Where were you born? 6th Avenue.

user224 ,
@user224@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I am afraid not.
It's with you like race. You can't change it.
If you're part of any minority you'll always attract these dumbasses.

Sorry, I'd like to tell you something better.

Oh, and the "Say something in Polish" may very well be meant well, even if it's annoying. Nobody but you knows how often you hear it.

kambusha ,

Smile, wave politely, and swear in Polish. Kurva.

lath ,

That word is too well known nowadays. Needs another one.

Dicska ,

Spierdalaj should do it.

lath ,

It's on point.

Acamon ,

I thinknif you've lived in Britain that long most people would think of you as British, especially if you have a reasonably British accent. Where I live in Scotland, most people are happy to accept anyone who actually wants to live in Scotland as Scottish!

Hut there's always going to be racist idiots. I've been told I'm "not really British" just because I'm from Scotland (by someone who obviously doesn't understand the difference between England and Britain. And I've seem the whitest, pure Anglo-Saxon English people being called "not really British" because they wanted to stay in the EU. So, try to ignore the idiots!

brewery ,

I am born and raised in England to Indian parents so always had some internal tension. Sometimes, I don't understand my patents culture and sometimes I don't understand English culture. However, I've realised I am who I am, and can take the best bits from both. There are some bits I don't like so I'm the better for being / having that mix. I married an Irish person who moved over several years ago. Irish used to be the "other" and were screwed over, but now are sometimes considered "white", so just shows the target moves.

There has always been racism in British society and unfortunately I have felt it pick up since the Brexit vote and Trump's election (I think it empowered them). However, it is from a small minority of people. In some areas it comes from ignorance, which I can kind of forgive. Others will always see us as outsiders with our foreign names (and my brown skin) no matter what we do. I just think, screw them. I mean, can they trace themselves back before the Normans, the Romans or the Vikings etc? Where do you draw the line exactly?!? England has always been a mix of people and culture so they're the ones missing out. I'm happy driving my Korean car to a German store to buy ingredients for a Thai green curry. Oh, I'll grab a French pastry for breakfast, Chilean wine for the weekend and well, you get the idea! Let's make the most of this multicultural place and ideas, and who cares about bigots who you can guarantee, like a cheeky korma and Belgian beer...

CalciumDeficiency OP ,

Definitely relate to not quite fitting in with either culture! I'm grateful for the perspective my heritage has given me on national identity and how I view different customs as a whole, because I think it has made me more understanding of others. But I definitely feel most understood myself when with other people who are dual identity, no matter what those identities are - there are definitely common threads we all share, from trying to fit in and camouflage to the dissonance we feel when considering what it would be like to move back to our country of origin

abcd ,

Being in the same situation in a different country, but a couple of years older: In my experience you never will be fully accepted by everyone. You will be the Polish guy in UK and the British guy in Poland.

You can identify yourself as what you want. You must learn that people have the right to have their own opinion even though it is wrong or opposed to yours. You have to learn not to care and live your life as a nice person. It doesn’t matter at all what others think as long as they don’t hurt you.

CalciumDeficiency OP ,

I am a woman, but other than that bang on

orcrist ,

The racists and xenophobes will never accept you. There's no fixing some people's brains. The good thing is, especially as you get older and able to do various kinds of work, you don't have to associate with those kinds of jerks very often. It's your community, it's your country, and they don't get to be the gatekeepers of who counts as local, no matter how hard they try.

Rumbelows ,

Much of the North and Wales are still not very diverse Part of what you were experiencing is the fact that you really do stand out.

Bristol is not so very far away from you, and it’s a very cosmopolitan city… No one there will give a fuck I do assure you.

Naich ,
@Naich@lemmings.world avatar

You seem like a decent thoughtful person, and I would rather have you as a fellow Brit than the knobheads that throw conkers at you.

Defining a person by their nationality is pretty stupid when you consider that we are all on the same rock hurtling through the unfathomable depths of space. My grandad always had to know where a person was from in order to put them into a specific box in his mind. I always found it utterly disgusting and just weird. I guess there will always be people like that, but it's learned behaviour. Kids don't care where someone is from until they are told it's important by an idiot adult.

I'm waffling now, but it genuinely doesn't matter where you are from. One of the few things that makes me proud to be British is the fact that we are a big melting pot of different cultures. We are enhanced by having British people with different heritages. I don't know if you are planning on applying for British nationality, but I would be delighted if you did. I, and a huge majority of Brits would welcome you with open arms, while the bigots amongst us can fuck off and go and be miserable in their own nasty little corner.

OccamsTeapot ,

I was born in the UK but with a West Indian and an actual Indian grandparent on one side. Lived there my entire life up until relatively recently. There were still people who would consider me not British. When people either in the UK or where I live now ask where I'm from and I tell them I'm British, there are many people who say "but where are you really from?"

But it doesn't mean anything if I say I'm Jamaican, or Indian, because one I've been to for some odd trips as a kid and the other I only transferred through an airport. Yeah my DNA shows that, but my entire life has basically minimal connection to either of those places and a continuous connection to Britain.

I got the accent and the passport, but I didn't get the skin colour. So these people will always exist who want to make it seem like I'm not "really" British. But that is on them, not me. I am British, whether they like it or not.

This is really a long winded way of saying: there will always be some people who consider you not truly British. Fuck them. They are idiots that have at best shackled themselves to some outdated view of what it means to be "British" and at worst want to shutter the whole country off to anyone who doesn't look or speak like them and pull us all back to the stone age.

I think if you speak to people you are close with about this they would consider you British. If you speak with Baz down at the Red Lion he'll ask you for a pierogi and then fall asleep in his own vomit after a few too many pints of carling. I think Baz is much less important than all of the real people in your life and most of all, the way you view yourself.

Aggravationstation ,

I grew up in a small northern town. Most of the people in my family and that town are fairly racist, mainly because they haven't encountered many people who aren't white British. There's a lot of closed mindedness in the UK sadly.

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