What happens if Biden dies before the next inauguration (see inside)?

What happens to the election if Biden dies before it?

  • With considerable time til the election
  • Not enough time to change the election

Assuming Biden wins on election day, what is the procedure at various stages throughout the election if Biden dies?

  • After election day but before votes are counted
  • Votes counted but not certified by Congress
  • Certified but not inaugurated
  • Any other stages I've missed
therealjcdenton ,
@therealjcdenton@lemmy.zip avatar

I'm surprised the CIA doesn't know the answer to this, so they have to come to lemmy to ask

Car ,

Some times you want somebody to double check your work before you turn it in

Dorkyd68 ,

I wonder if anyone is taking bets on who will croak first? Like Vegas for example

Lost_My_Mind ,

I got $20 on trump dies first. All that McDonalds is going to add up.

BackOnMyBS OP ,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place avatar

plus, he's definitely taking an adhd stimulant since Fox News et al. has been accusing Biden of doing that.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

Evil motherfuckers tend to live forever, unfortunately. It's the pure concentrated hate that sustains them.

norimee ,

Additional question. If the Vice President takes over and becomes President, do they finish the full term or are they just interim president until a new election can take place?

Brotherly ,

They finish the current term and appoint a new VP. The election calendar doesn't change

norimee ,

Thanks.

BackOnMyBS OP ,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place avatar

So the new President just picks whomever they want to be Vice President? It doesn't automatically become the Speaker of the House? Also, is there a confirmation process that the VP nominee has to complete similar to Supreme Court Justices?

edgemaster72 ,
@edgemaster72@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, No, and Yes.

https://www.factcheck.org/2008/04/replacing-the-vice-president/

BackOnMyBS OP ,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place avatar

thanks!

StaySquared ,

Harris goes from VP to P. Which I really think would be a bigger disaster.

BlameThePeacock ,

I'm just going to point out that trump is only 3 years younger, and has far more risk factors for heart attack and strokes.

Why does everyone seem to think Biden is the one who will die first.

Tramort ,

Because if Trump dies then we have a lot less to worry about

cmbabul ,

We have less immediate issues on that front, but we still got some work to do

OneWomanCreamTeam ,
@OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works avatar

There are so many more eyecatching things wrong with Trump, so his age never gets brought up.
Biden mostly just has his age and the Israel situation, so those are the two things you hear about the most.

RememberTheApollo_ ,

TBH because of his physical presentation at the debate. Yeah, it’s short-sighted, but welcome to the public thought process. Whatever is churned thru the latest 15 minute media cycle seems to be what they believe.

Doesn’t matter if he had a cold and was dosed up on NyQuil or whatever; his voice was weak, he stumbled over making coherent sentence multiple times, and he just had a blank, open-mouthed stare when between questions. I’ve had shitty colds and been drugged up with cold meds and I know that feel of being sore, exhausted, hoarse, and disconnected. You just want to go have a lie-down, not a public debate against a raging, insulting, narcissistic asshole. But it takes someone willing to understand all that and give Biden the benefit of the doubt.

There are far too many that start from the “old” part and just attribute everything possible to that which they find disagreeable.

Lost_My_Mind ,

Did he have a cold, and cold medicine? I've not heard those things.

AhismaMiasma ,

Groups have been trying to push this message since the debate. It's not terribly effective for anyone who actually watched.

A cold and cold medicine don't account for the very clear confusion and sundowning the rest of us witnessed.

RememberTheApollo_ ,

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/biden-trump-first-presidential-debate-2024-election/card/biden-has-a-cold-campaign-source-4pXKzKo0k7L8n1keQlTo

I can’t unpaywall the article. The assumption he’d take some kind of meds is my own.

GiddyGap , (edited )

his voice was weak, he stumbled over making coherent sentence multiple times, and he just had a blank, open-mouthed stare when between questions.

And apparently that matters more than the blatant lies and non-answers coming from the other side. Gotta say, Americans do seem significantly dumber than the average world citizen.

14th_cylon , (edited )

And apparently that matters more than the blatant lies and non-answers coming from the other side.

yes, for estimating whether someone dies due to health condition, that health condition matters significantly more than someone else lying. 😜

GiddyGap ,

Trump is 3 years younger. Biden may outlive him by 10 years for all we know.

14th_cylon , (edited )

he may. but the last debate strongly suggested otherwise. someone asked why do people think that biden will be first to die and this is why. because he seem in significantly worse shape.

he looked like he was going to die before the debate ends. i absolutely don't believe that, if elected, he will survive whole term.

(and that is ignoring the fact that having a pulse is quite low threshold for presidential candidate)

GiddyGap ,

Don't know about you, but I vote for policy, not a person. But you do what a lot of Americans do, vote for a personality, and that's why Americans seem significantly dumber than the average world citizen.

14th_cylon ,

i am not an american, but i can confirm for you that you seem significantly dumb to me.

if you see an error in any fact i stated, please point it out. i can't do anything about your emotions...

GiddyGap ,

Your error: Voting for a person, not policy. There.

14th_cylon ,

i meant error in facts, not your inability to understand topic of the discussion (this isn't discussion about policy), or the fact that i am not an american, so i am not voting for anything in us elections.

Dark_Arc ,
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

Gotta say, Americans do seem significantly dumber than the average world citizen.

Presumably what an American once said about Germans. It can happen anywhere with the right stream of propaganda.

illi ,

And is actively happening. Sadly, most people will choose comfortable lies over hard truths.

14th_cylon ,

Why does everyone seem to think Biden is the one who will die first.

because we recently saw them in televised debate and one of them looked in significantly worse shape than the other.

GladiusB ,
@GladiusB@lemmy.world avatar

I did not take him as in worst shape. I saw a person who couldn't believe the bullshit being said by a narcissistic moron. I would have the same look at my face in disbelief if I had to debate with someone that I thought still asked for crayons at a restaurant.

BlameThePeacock ,

Just goes to show how little people know about how people die.

14th_cylon ,

yeah, nobody knows. but (un)fortunately "he isn't able to put together coherent sentence, but maybe he isn't going to die tomorrow" is not qualification for presidential office.

HelixDab2 ,

My grandmother lived with dementia for 20 years before dying at 101.

14th_cylon ,

good for her. i assume she didn't run for a president.

chiliedogg ,

Let's look at oldest mainline Presidential nominees in history:

  1. Biden - 2024 (81)
  2. Trump - 2024 (78)
  3. Biden - 2020 (77)
  4. Trump - 2020 (74)
  5. Reagan - 1984 (73)
  6. Trump - 2016 (70)
  7. Reagan - 1980 (69)

Next President who was elected was William Henry Harrison, but we're getting "young" enough there may be unelected nominees I'm not aware of.

Also: fun fact. Jimmy Carter's post-presidency lifespan has been over 43 years so far, while Teddy Roosevelt was only 42 when elected Predident.

StaySquared ,

There's 100 year olds that are more competent than Biden.

craigers ,
@craigers@lemmy.world avatar

Because Trump now thinks he has full immunity to assassinate his political rivals

statist43 ,

Full immunity to disease too he supposes, while injecting desinfectant and thinking about his triumph

bstix ,

Let's not hope both take a stroll on 5th avenue at the same time.

PhlubbaDubba ,

President Harris and Vice President Jefferies

Anything else means instant constitutional crisis, but at the same time, we'll be able hear the explosions from space as right winger minds absorb that circumstance has brought about the first female president and also the first PoC President Vice President team.

If Kamala was good at trolling she'd not nominate any white people to the cabinet so we can all enjoy fox pundits trying to find the magic combination of words that let them be mad about an all PoC cabinet without it being racist, but I'm pretty sure she's at least going to keep Buttigieg on as Transit Czar since he's been going at least hard enough to get HSR moving finally between LA and Vegas.

BackOnMyBS OP , (edited )
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place avatar

I would start watching Fox News just to get the petty sense of revenge from watching them shit bricks over an all PoC cabinet.

dhork ,

Vice President Jefferies

It doesn't work that way. First of all, Mike Johnson is the Speaker, and is next in line for the Presidency after the VP, not Jeffries. But that entire list is strictly to see who would be President if the office were suddenly vacant. The House Speaker would only take over if there is a Presidential vacancy while the office of VP is also vacant.

Should Harris becomes President due to Biden leaving office early, the office of VP would become vacant and remain so until President Harris picks a replacement, and that replacement is ratified by both houses of Congress. Sadly, in today's political climate that is not a guarantee.

PhlubbaDubba ,

I was talking since Jefferies would likely be Speaker in the scenario where Biden won the election but then died of old age.

dhork ,

Ah. I am thinking he may not have that long left

shit_of_ass ,
@shit_of_ass@sh.itjust.works avatar

jimmy carter will out live both
mark my words

Nemo ,

As long as he stays away from rabbits!

wtfrank ,

Also consider what happens if Trump dies at any of these stages - he's almost the same age so all else being equal he's almost as likely to die during the same period

coffee_with_cream ,

One definitely seemed more likely to die than the other 😂

BackOnMyBS OP ,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place avatar

I bet they already have the conspiracy theories prepped for when Trump dies. It would be interesting for someone to make a Reddit post asking for MAGA to share their theories that someone is trying to terminate Trump, so that when he eventually passes from natural causes, we could pull that up as relevant info to see why no one did anything beforehand to prevent the attempt or if the conspiracy that emerges wasn't stated before it happened.

philpo ,

Bonus round with the upcoming (small) bird flu epidemic:

What if both die days before the election due to a sudden illness?

cmbabul ,

I guess it’s Harris vs whoever Trumps running mate becomes

Serialchemist ,

The Vice President-Elect is sworn in instead. This is covered by section 3 of the 20th amendment.

Section 3.

 If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President-elect shall have died, the Vice President-elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President-elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President-elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President-elect nor a Vice President-elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

There's actually a novel that describes the process and it actually depends on when it happens.

If Biden wins the election, but dies before the electoral college votes, it's a free-for-all. The electoral college can vote for whoever they want.

If he dies AFTER the EC vote, but before it's certified, there's a different set of problems.

If he dies after the vote and the certification, the VP becomes President.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_People%27s_Choice_(novel)

stinerman ,
@stinerman@midwest.social avatar

If Biden wins the election, but dies before the electoral college votes, it’s a free-for-all. The electoral college can vote for whoever they want.

This is unclear. Some states have laws that say that electors must vote for who they're pledged to vote for.

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

But there's no enforcement.

stinerman ,
@stinerman@midwest.social avatar

Again, this depends on the state. In some states it's a fine. In others it's a misdemeanor and can carry jail time. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector.

BackOnMyBS OP ,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place avatar

What a useless deterrent

pelletbucket ,
@pelletbucket@lemm.ee avatar

amendment 20, section 3. the vice president-elect gets inaugurated

Invertedouroboros ,

I think it'd also count as a full term in office so far as the rule against running more than twice goes. So you could run for reelection, but that isn't a "one werid trick" to getting three terms in office.

pelletbucket ,
@pelletbucket@lemm.ee avatar

it's a two-term limit with a 10-year maximum. if the vice president gets called up 23 months before the end of the president's term, they could potentially successfully serve two and a half full terms

bionicjoey ,

One weird trick for getting the FDR special: assassinate your running mate before your first term starts

dhork , (edited )

See inside what? Did you link to anything?

As I see it, key deadlines are:

  • The party conventions, where each parties nominee will be formalized. (But recall that the actual Democratic Nomination will be done before the convention, to meet some State deadlines).

  • The election itself, where voters choose which slate of electors cast EC votes.

  • The electoral college election that really matters.

  • The counting of the EC Votes

  • the inauguration

Once the nominations are formalized, they probably can't be undone, since there are State deadlines involved.

But always remember that people are not voting for the candidates themselves, but for a slate of electors. And while the expectation is for these electors to vote for the ticket they were pledged to, if one candidate is subject to God's Almighty Recall Vote, they appear to have the discretion to file votes differently.

Once the EC votes are cast, though, there would probably be no choice but to accept them. (Congress recently revamped the counting process to eliminate some of the shenanigans that happened last time). I expect that if either one croaks after that, they would probably just inaugurate the VP on the ticket directly.

(Edited to add: states may be able to change EC votes after the December EC election. That date is based on a "safe harbor" deadline which makes EC votes harder to challenge. So, if the winning candidate bites it on Christmas Day there's probably a way for State Legislatures to certify new EC votes before Congress counts them Jan 6, but we should expect a challenge to that.)

(It would suck if Trump won, and Biden croaked on Jan 19th. We might have our first female President, for one day.)

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • [email protected]
  • kbinchat
  • All magazines
    •