Negative reviews should remain until the purchase restrictions put in place on Steam for non-PSN countries have been reverted.
Until then this looks like a temporary move for damage control and they'll try this again when refunds are less likely and wont be from restricted countries.
There was a theory that the purchase restrictions were put in place by Valve, not Sony (because those countries couldn’t make an account without violating TOS). If so, Valve might shortly remove the restrictions.
Valve can remove games from sale for any reason they like - it's been a point of consumer contention when they are accused of censorship for certain risque anime games, too.
They can completely remove a game from sale if it turns out to be bricking people's computers or function terribly. (Sony did this with Cyberpunk on PSN, without CDPR's approval)
There may be suspicion the game is not legitimate for sale, for instance it illegally uses someone else's work.
Going country-specific, if a game is revealed to be slightly less than universally positive to the perfectly infallible, totally-not-genocidal Chinese Communist Party, they may want to stop sales in China.
If a game lets you buy it in Tanzania, download it in Tanzania, and then to play, has you sign an agreement that says "I truthfully state that I do not live in Tanzania", then that bone-headed agreement reflects poorly on Valve, so they have almost a legal need to take it out of sale in that country.
Basically, each country has its own laws of sale. Having those switches to turn off sales in certain places is important for the store's own safety. While 60% of the blame for selling a faulty product goes to the manufacturer, 40% still goes to the storefront that chose to stock and sell that faulty good. In this case, the fault was specific to the country of play.
That's right, I have heard of some of these cases, but thank you very much for the info! I definitely didn't want Sony to have any ground to stand on here, so happy that Valve is able to step up to protect consumers however they can.
I hope Valve never does this. Tons of games on Steam only work with community fixes, it sets a bad precedent if they pull them because they don’t work in their official state.
It’s better to have them then not, I would just force a disclaimer during sale for abandoned titles that most players have reported that the game does not function without community patches.
Well the guy who made GotR to get saints row working died a few years back and AFAIK the game is effectively nonfunctional for the majority of people who buy it. Those people paid for a product that they cannot use. They could go emulate the game for free and it would run better.
Plus, the owners of the title have a functioning PC version sold elsewhere than Steam. They could easily remedy this if Steam took away their listing.
Illegal means against the law.. so no.
Out of their jurisdiction, Steam is Valve's platform, so no again.
Valve is the seller in this case, who will be liable for the agreement they have with their customers. If one of their sold product is going to end up massively refunded, who do you think will be processing these? Then Valve has to turn around and get the money from Sony.. guess how Valve estimates that will go.
So step 1 for Valve is limit exposure by stopping sales where you expect issues.
Step 2 is analyzing the potential for refunds in other countries and limiting there as well if deemed to big a risk.
I can only imagine that feedback from Valve to Sony played a role in the decision to not push forward. As large corporations only speak money.. the cost benefit made at Sony must have missed some things to have it now skew the other way.
I'll believe the account requirement will be totally in the past IF the sales to the non PSN countries are reinstated. Cause why limit your customers to countries if that is not necessary.
Honestly I’m keeping my negative review permanent. The game is great and I enjoy it, but besides a temporary back lash I want the sting to stick around to hopefully teach companies about fucking around and finding out.
They won't learn anything. They only nulled their bullshit because it would hurt their financial quarter because their biggest cash cow game at the moment is bombing. They only way to maybe make them learn would be if every single one of the "outraged gamers" would just uninstall and never play it again, but that won't happen and Sony knows that (which is why they can try pulling that shit in the first place).
Good for the peeps in non-PSN countries tho. For them, this is a real win.
You don't owe Arrowhead anything. They're not a dog, they're a company who's made bad choices and now has to deal with them.
What use is a good game if you get blocked out or exploited trying to play it? Do you really want to give your money away? Ok, but stop wondering why the industry is going to shit. It's because of gamers with more money than sense.
Again, why do you care? You paid for a product. That product is now different from what it was supposed to be. You've been screwed and switch-baited. Why do you care what unholy combination of companies led to this? If it were any other industry and any other type of product you'd be screaming murder. But because it's games we find excuses.
I never ended up refunding my copy, but I'm certainly not gonna give a single cent to the live service side of the game. I already hadn't paid for anything, but was considering it before this shitshow. Now, I think I'll just buy copies of Magicka and throw them at friends to try and support Arrowhead.
Nah, I'd rather they keep speaking like this. Makes it really obvious from the get go who I'm dealing with. If they speak normally, they might blend in
Naw it's more like "we did something we knew would make you incredibly uncomfortable; but now that you're screaming we're worried about the neighbors hearing it and we don't want the cops called on us, so we'll back off until a more opportune time."
Translation: We're trying multiple predatory methods to see how far we can push PC players and figure out what we can get away with, compared to all the shit shows we successfully pulled off on our own platform.
What's wild to me is they're making their own overlay for their PC games. Ghost of Tsushima is supposed to be the first release title with it. Do they not understand steam already has an overlay? I feel like 2 overlays would just compete and be obnoxious and possibly ever impact performance.
Also, why? If it is for co-op crossplay, just make linking PSN to Steam optional, and state it is needed for inviting/grouping with any PS5 friends. Then do what every other multiplatform game does and show 2 friends list in the game.
You just know that there used to be an "…at this time" at the end of that sentence and some good PR folk edited it out because managers are out of touch douches.
No, a bunch of people here just need to be outraged about something all the time, and pessimistic about everything.
Nothing can ever be even modestly positive. Everything - everything - has to be bad and negative all the time. If it was a cute puppy video, there'd be a bunch of comments about how puppy farms are evil and etc.
OK now they can go ahead with plan B where they allow you to link your PSN account to get some super cool cosmetic. I wonder what the reaction of the consumers will be then.
I really don't see the problem, provided it is cosmetic. If you don't want to link, you don't get a glittering, whatever in game. If you don't mind sharing your datas, then you get the shiny thing (and everyone knows you don't mind sharing your datas).
So if you mind sharing your data, don't get the shiny. You know it will become like that shiny pony back in wow's wrath expansion. It told you more about the person than anything else.
There are legitimate reasons for the devs and Sony to want your psn account linked. It's also reasonable to not want to do so. Why not offer a compromise, like any healthy relationship, and allow, not force, account linking, with a little incentive? Where is the downside to either party?
Except now many loyalty cards are now required to get sale prices that were previously available without them. It is a bleak world where folks have to potentially choose between affording groceries and protecting their privacy.
Brooooo this victory is an absolute game-changer for us die-hard Xbox fans, and it's downright exhilarating! Sony's constant blunders pale in comparison to the countless triumphs of team Xbox, and this might just be the knockout blow that finally converts those Lamestationers to our side. Brace yourselves for an epic shift as the unrivaled supremacy of our console dazzles and dominates, pulling every gamer into its unstoppable vortex of pure excitement and adrenaline-fueled gaming bliss!👊👊
I can’t tell if you’re being downvoted by dorks who don’t realise you’re joking or by dorks who DO realise you’re joking and feel attacked. Either way, sad, silly down voters.
It's weird how collective action works so well but they only choose to do it for this linking requirement. You could get the rootkits gone as well, gamers.
Most people don't know what they're installing or don't care about their privacy, which is why there's not enough people rising up against kernel level AC's. Also, not being able to play until you create an account is much more upsetting to most people, than just clicking 'update' in League of Legends.
There's a tooltip next to the update button that says something like 'Our Anticheat Vanguard is out now!' or smth like that.
The rest is exactly the same as any other update
The Sony BMG CD copy protection rootkit scandal was a scandal focused on the implementation of copy protection measures on about 22 million CDs distributed by Sony BMG in 2005. When inserted into a computer, the CDs installed one of two pieces of software that provided a form of digital rights management (DRM) by modifying the operating system to interfere with CD copying. Neither program could easily be uninstalled, and they created vulnerabilities that were exploited by unrelated malware. One of the programs would install and "phone home" with reports on the user's private listening habits, even if the user refused its end-user license agreement (EULA), while the other was not mentioned in the EULA at all. Both programs contained code from several pieces of copylefted free software in an apparent infringement of copyright, and configured the operating system to hide the software's existence, leading to both programs being classified as rootkits.
I was one of them to begin with but once I found out about the whole thing with people of certain countries not able to have an account even though they had already bought the game and were even previously able to play are now locked out, then I was on board.
I'm not against just making accounts, I must have thousands across the internet, what would be one more if I hadn't already had a PSN account.
But the game isn't even available on PlayStation so why am I creating an account? At the very least it's pointless busy work. And apparently not even well thought out.
Using a password manager would avoid this. Everyone should ideally use unique passwords per service, that way a single account can't compromise the others.
The loss of personal data however is fricking annoying. If a company has no legitimate reason, I avoid signing up to them.
@NocturnalEngineer@Isoprenoid i was so infuriated back when nvidia demanded an account for shadowplay. I thought id lose access to the encoder thingy. So glad that it can be used by other software too. Uninstalled the shadowplay/gf experience stuff and never looked back
Wouldn't it be nice to not have your info spread across thosands of accounts that you yourself even implied you don't keep track of?
What sony pulled, and coporate moves like it, are at least in part a result of people saying "meh, what's one more account, I've already got thousands."
We as a community aren't an immaculate entity. Companies don't just make these moves out of nowhere, they analyze what we're willing to do so they can take advantage of those things to make money. That's not some sleazy secret scheme, thats basic market research. If we collectively show we do actually care about this stuff and won't supoort their business when they do it, it might not happen so often.
I’d love to shut up and play Starship Troopers: The Game. But unfortunately, I don’t have a PS5 or gaming PC. Still holding out hope that this will come to Xbox one day.
Actually Halo Infinite might come out on ps5. Microsoft is publishing a lot of their games to Playstation atm. Sea of Thieves, Hi-fi rush, Grounded, Pentiment are all out on ps5.
Sea of Thieves was one of the big xbox exclusive games, developed by Rare, which is owned by Microsoft since 2002 and all the games they have made in the last 15+ years have been xbox exclusive.
This has nothing to do with the shitstorm (it mostly hit Arrowhead anyway), and I think the review bombing didn’t affect their decision making that much. What I think happened was, Sony saw the massive refunds. They got hit right into the wallet 😩
Once again, Arrowhead decided to go with Sony as publisher, they agreed with PSN account linking. No offense, they are are an independent studio, they did not need to do that. It is sad they lost money, but the developers already got paid. The worst thing that can happen is they have to switch jobs.
Developers generally have a choice between going to one of the massive publishers (which allows for better promotion and for expensive games to pay off, but comes at a cost of their will over devs), or to self-release, which means way less players will even know about the game, not to mention buy it.
Arrowhead realistically only had the first option.
That's not to say there's no fault of theirs in the situation, just that it's not a free choice and that Sony is still the main culprit
If they truly go through that for the promotion, then they are idiots and deserve all the hate. Video games don't blow up because there is a commercial on time square that costs a million dollars, games blow up because they are good and people/youtubers and (yuck) influencers talk about it
That's what pisses me off with the steam review bombing.
If that's the only way to express discontent then that will fucking sucks for everybody involved in game development.
If at least review bombing was a last resort but now it's the norm.
These reviews will have a lasting effect on the game even though the drama bubble has now popped.
Sure let's destroy this game all together because of this issue.
A well thought out and mature reaction is to pretend the game is bad in the steam reviews even though you clocked 100+ hours into it.
I mean there is a ton of things Helldivers does better than any other games and we are gonna trash that because of a PSN account requirements ?
I understand this is a valid issue for certain players but is it a proportionate response to this situation to trash the game on steam? I don't think so.
Legit question: Did you completely stopped playing Helldivers 2 ?
Is it uninstalled?
Did you ask for a refund ?
Because if you still play the game and at the same time say it should be trashed that's a lot of hypocrisy.
It can't be both. You can criticize the game that's fine. But if you still play it and you are so vocal for its demise then you are definitely part of the problem here.
So you are asking other players to review bomb and try to kill a game you never bought yourself?
Fascinating.
Edit: I think the above conversation is a good example of why I don't think Steam Review Bombing is the best solution. You get people delivering fake reviews sometimes for games they don't even play themselves. I understand why they do that I just don't think that's the right way to do so. And also thinks it's not fair for the actual devs working on the project.
I asked but was denied my first one, and did not submit a second one before Sony walked back the changes.
I don't actually have plans to return to the game, because Sony is consistently fucking with the dev team and the game has now accrued so much technical debt that the constant bugs and issues would impact me every time I log in.
I will also no longer be supporting Sony titles on PC. Even if they release my holy grail Bloodborne, I'll pirate it and play it offline.
Fuck Sony forever, and stop trying to gatekeep hating a company over their shitty practices.
First would you mind telling me where I defend Sony ?
It must be very subtle.
This conversation already starts in bad faith. You are trying to undermine my comment by declaring I'm taking side with Sony.
There is nothing in my recent comments that says Sony has done something right or that I agree with their move. Nothing.
Am I allowed to genuinely think this account issue wasn't that much of a big deal ? Or do I only get to choose if I'm a Sony shill or not ?
I have seen my favorite game franchise getting shat on for years by their developers (EA) and I have seen things thousands of time much worse from EA than this account requirement from PS. Still right to call out Sony for this but this is not a "this game is unplayable" issue like we had many times on other games. So yeah I have a nuanced opinion on this and didnt immediately accept that Sony murdered Helldivers 2 and that the game is dead.
My suggestion is not complicated. Stay truthful in your reviews. That's not rocket science. A lot of these reviews are rating or presenting the game as much worse than they really think it is. Most of these players will review bomb and will play hundred of hours just after that. I'm fucking French I understand what protests are and that being an annoyance is kind of the point. But review bombing on steam and telling a naive player that would definitely enjoy the game that the game is trash will never be cool.
You can say in your review that you don't like that aspect of the game but if the point is only to be negative and untrustworthy this is not the way. Again if you truly suddenly think that game is "the worst game ever" after playing hundreds of hours and learning of the PS requirements then fine but I doubt it's what happens.
Also did you stop to think what is your comment bringing to the table here ? It's just an unnecessarily aggressive comment and doesn't either provide anything beside telling me I'm wrong and it's a bad take.
It’s a bad take to tell people their only means of effective protest is not going through proper channels.
Steam review bombing is absolutely not the proper channel to voice discontent. It's a review. Not a forum, not a dev support channel. It's a review. You are giving your honest feedback on a game. The good and the bad. Not just "the thing everyone told me is bad" and nothing else.
This is not cool to tell devs their game is trash on the steam page if you don't really and truthfully think so.
Absolutely despise th fact that devs have to constantly read their game is trash in steam reviews because some higher-ups decided to go full greed mode.
So yeah Steam REVIEWS are NOT the proper channel to voice discontent. Almost any other forum or social network is. Just not a steam review page.
These reviews will have a lasting effect on the game even though the drama bubble has now popped.
Steam has a specific thing that appears when you keep playing a lot on a game that you’ve negatively reviewed asking if you want to change it. I think a game is rarely impacted long-term by review bombing for a resolved issue, unless the reviewers actually dropped the game and went on with their lives.
This type of review bombing is actually against steams terms of service for reviews in the first place, they've stepped in a few times now to hide campaigns like that, I expect they will do the same with this one. Basically it'll keep the recent review metric but, it will hide the reviews from the historical and the overall metric. So worst case out of this will be it has a negative recent reviews for awhile.
your last sentence is actually the exact reason they implemented that policy and they moreorless quote it in their forum post where they talk about how the new system works
The refunds may have hurt, but what hurt more was the fact that in the last week HD2 went from #1/2 on the Steam global top sellers to #11. The big red "Overwhelmingly Negative" next to a title is a huge turnoff to new buyers.
Some executive somewhere has a chart showing daily sales numbers and watched them fall off a cliff in the last week.
and this is why i wish people would make it profitable, fuck AAA titles, give your money to indies who respect the consumers and actually just want to make a fun game.
I wish game devs would found a union that helps developers fund and publish games with no profit incentive, it seems like such an obvious thing to do and has the potential to revolutionizing how people create and play games.
No longer would we be beholden to companies, no longer would developers have to compromise their works for profit, no longer would players have to tolerate predatory bullshit.
Just good games made by passionate people who are happy to have people enjoy their works while being able to afford to live on it.
That's what I normally do - pirate or ignore AAA's, but always buy indies.
The problem with the union idea is that most games just won't pay off huge investments, so there needs to be someone competent who filters out profitable games, and funds games based on expected returns...and at that point we get, essentially, a publisher company. Or maybe a cooperative. But barely a union.
