Lemmy is a failed Reddit alternative

I first joined Lemmy back during the big Reddit exodus of last year. I like many others wanted an alternative to Reddit, and I thought that this might've been the one. I made two accounts, one on lemmy.world and another on sh.itjust.works, in the June of last year that I used on and off for about 4 months.

At first Lemmy was exciting because it was so active. There were so many new users who were enthusiastic about turning this platform into a genuine alternative. There was a communal effort to create and interact with content, and for awhile it worked. Lemmy was truly interesting during the summer of last year. However, this stream of dedicated users started to slowly decline.

A lot of people hoped that if they were active, they would attract and retain more users to this place to the point where the community would foster interest specific communities like Reddit, but that never happened. After a few months, a lot of users lost interest and went back to Reddit where the userbase is so massive that there is an active community for just about anything.

With this reverse exodus back to Reddit, Lemmy ended up with the same groups that were active on it before hand: political extremists, tech nerds, privacy enthusiasts, and shitposters. To be fair, all these groups are larger now than they were a year ago, but that's all this platform has to offer. If you're into any of these things and primarly these things then Lemmy can be a good alternative to Reddit, but for the general masses? Lemmy is just not good.

For example, a NBA post on the NBA subreddit can get you thousands of interactions in a couple of hours. An NBA post on here will maybe get you a dozen over the course of a couple of days. The only content that will gain any traction here are tech news, political propaganda, and maybe some memes. I don't see this changing any time soon. Even if Reddit implodes, I still think Lemmy will remain a niche platform. I think this evident by the fact that this platform hasn't really progressed in a year.

aciDC14 ,

Everything being mainstream is the reason the internet is becoming so shitty.

deafboy ,
@deafboy@lemmy.world avatar

Being mainstream is exactly what I liked about reddit. It was the reincarnation of usenet. It has attracted all kinds of people doing all kinds of thing. Are you interested in swastika knitting? Piano jumping? Bathsponge sculpting? You can sure as hell find at least 2 other guys already doing it there.

aciDC14 ,

Your best course for getting new content is to contribute.

LibertyLizard ,
@LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

I don’t think it is failed. It has reached self-sustaining levels for many topics. It will need further growth to make smaller, niche topics self-sustaining. Whether this growth will take place is an open question. I know my instance is growing in terms of activity, but I’m not sure how others are faring.

But as long as it isn’t shrinking, I think it’s well-positioned to absorb more growth as users discover it or become disillusioned with Reddit or other sites in the future.

Gorilladrums21 OP ,

I think a big issue with Lemmy is that I think there's a lot of people who become disillusioned with it, just like how a lot of users became disillusioned with Reddit. When users join this site, they'll immediately notice that there's nothing outside of extremist politics, privacy focused tech talk, and shitposting. Unless they're interested in those topics specifically, a lot of people would rather either just go back to Reddit where there are active communities outside of these topics or find another, more active platform. A lot of people thought that Voat was going to rival Reddit when launched, but it ended up being a niche hub for extremist politics, tech talk, and shitposting until it shutdown. Now Lemmy is definitely better than Voat in every aspect, but I'm not sure how it can over come that big hump that will allow to appeal to general public

chiisana ,
@chiisana@lemmy.chiisana.net avatar

There’s also the problem that sadly Lemmy is filled with vocal users with skewed view of the world, and they tend to be extreme polarizing. The “if you’re not one of us, who firmly believes the world should work a certain way, and if you’re not willing to shoot yourself in the foot with a shotgun to prove it as a point, then you’re one of them; you should get the eff off of Lemmy and crawl back to Reddit” kind of way. They’re so scared of losing that pedestal that they’re going to go out of their way to alienate anyone who doesn’t drink their koolaid and push them off the platform so they can remain dominant. Sadly, these people also never really learned much of the real world, so those that are more experienced / educated gets pushed off the platform, and we end up with a bunch of weird superstonk culty kind of vibe everywhere.

I find myself more and more just make a comment and don’t look back. It’s quite literally futile and pointless trying to expect any discussion of any actual sustenance. You wonder why it’s just shitposting… well this is why.

mctoasterson ,

This summarizes it pretty well. Two things can be true at once. Reddit sucks ass and I haven't gone back since the API changes. Simultaneously, the default Lemmy experience is extremely offputting to all but certain subcultures. Not everyone is a antiwork activist, Arch Linux evangelist, open socialist, or actively transitioning. Totally fine that all these groups have their communities, but it gets kinda old seeing 90% of the feed filled with these topics.

Blaze ,
@Blaze@reddthat.com avatar

Feel free to block those communities.

Then stuff like !casualconversation or !parenting will emerge

vk6flab ,
@vk6flab@lemmy.radio avatar

I am part of the Reddit exodus. I'm here because I have no interest in promoting or supporting the atrocious policies that now govern Reddit.

The pace here is different, but the interactions feel more measured.

Based on being online since 1990, I'm comfortable with being an "early adopter", even though I've only been here for a few months and Lemmy is five years old.

Will Lemmy survive? Who knows. The horse and buggy didn't, neither did Yahoo!, MySpace or Google+, but here we are nonetheless.

I like it here.

Gorilladrums21 OP ,

I mean good for you, I'm glad you're happy here. But here's a question for you, do you honestly think that this platform has the potential to be more than what it is currently? Platforms come and go, true, but it's very rare for a platform to actually appeal to the general masses. MySpace at its peak had 90 million active users, Google+ had 200 million users, Yahoo still has around 700 million people use its services. While these sites ended up being failures, they still reached mainstream status. I don't think Lemmy will die, but I don't see it becoming a mainstream alternative to Reddit. I see it as an upgraded version of Voat. It's a platform that will remain niche unless something drastic changes.

vk6flab ,
@vk6flab@lemmy.radio avatar

I think that the missing link for the fediverse is the user interface that most users see.

This is oxymoronic given that the original Reddit looks eerily similar to Lemmy today, but it's not just looks I'm talking about.

Moderation and usability tools, bots, blocks, filtering and spam control need to go through several iterations before we can actually grow this community.

Search is another issue, as is post deletion. Right now a post vanishes, but all the stuff hanging off it is still there. This makes for a complex user experience.

Finally, Lemmy appears to be run by developers who appear to be interested in their own issues and regularly appear to dismiss issues raised by users. This is not sustainable.

I consider myself a user of the fediverse before I'm a Lemmy or Mastodon user. We have a way to go before this settles down.

nutomic ,
@nutomic@lemmy.ml avatar

Finally, Lemmy appears to be run by developers who appear to be interested in their own issues and regularly appear to dismiss issues raised by users. This is not sustainable.

I would love to fix all the issues that users report, but for that we would need about ten times as many developers. The way it is we simply don't have enough time to work on everything, and need to prioritize things.

Resol ,
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

I'm actually glad I'm not that active on the platform (or any platform for that matter, federated or not), so I can give myself time to breathe in outside air and touch some grass.

And once I am active, it's usually for a couple hours at most, then it's back to being in my coma for a few days.

Max_P ,
@Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me avatar

Lemmy wasn't ready and still mostly not ready for a mass Reddit exodus. The Reddit API fiasco wasn't anticipated by anybody and the large influx of users exposed a ton of bugs and federation issues.

But it's not a failure, yet. I'm sure Reddit had growing pains after the Digg exodus too. Some platforms take years to become popular. Reddit was small for quite a while before it became more mainstream.

In a way to me Lemmy feels a bit like Reddit must have been a few years before I joined it 12 years ago.

The problem is the expectation that Lemmy could replace Reddit overnight, and would immediately be a 1:1 replacement.

Although personally I like it more here, and I get more interactions than Reddit. But I am a tech nerd, so.

mbfalzar ,

I was on reddit slightly before subreddits were added as functionality, so 16ish years, and lemmy to me just feels like that 2008ish reddit except most of the userbase is 40 instead of 18

Aussiemandeus ,
@Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone avatar

I prefer the older user base. I'm 30 and I don't feel out of place here

BackOnMyBS ,
@BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place avatar

I like Lemmy especially because it has not gone mainstream. I was already disliking Reddit around 2016/7 and tried to find alternatives, but nothing was good enough for me. Around 2018/9, the porn subs got pretty popular, then WallStreetBets. That brought on a massive amount of users, and the Reddit I joined in 2011 was definitely gone.

It used to be interesting, unique, and respectful.It became repetitive, predictably standard, and rude. Many subs function as low-key advertising or propaganda without users awareness. It was a hive mind. I was wanting to leave, and luckily the API fiasco happened so that I was able to find a new place.

I like it small like it is now. Users feel more familiar. Also, I love the idea of instances. If one instance has a shitty community on a topic you like, then find a community on a different instance. There's none of that BS where mods control an entire topic. Maybe there are a lot of topics that aren't popular here, so that sucks. Still, it's no worse than reddit with 1+ million people all saying the same crap I don't vibe with on a topic.

AVeryCleverName ,

I have a couple of thoughts.

  1. I dont need or want Lemmy to appeal to the mainstream. Frankly, I already get all the mainstream 'culture' I can stand, and frequntly more.

  2. I think it's a mistake to consider Lemmy a one-to-one repacement for Reddit. I hope the fediverse can leverage the whole, y'know, federation thing. I think topic-driven instances that function similarly to the old phpBB boards is a good paradigm. It's not about a monster site that has a board for everything. It's more answering the question, 'What if I could post on gamefaqs from my metal archives account?'

I guess I just think we could do better than trying to out-reddit reddit, when it comes to having a vision for the platform.

Signed,
a linux using socialist.

Rooki ,
@Rooki@lemmy.world avatar

Could i ask how can you be one of the reddit exodus users if your account is 2 days old?

If you wanna leave lemmy do it on your main account to proof you are one of the over a year old accounts.

That we can salute and press F to the fallen user.

n3m37h ,

I'm pressing X to Doubt this post

Boozilla ,
@Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

Lemmy is missing:

  • Bots
  • Karma farmers
  • Ads
  • Insane mods
  • Fucking Spez

You know you're right, we're nothing like reddit!!

Gorilladrums21 OP ,

I mean Lemmy shares a lot of the same issues as Reddit even if it's decentralized. I think Lemmy as a technology is better than Reddit because it's more privacy focused, but most people don't care about any of this. People put up with Reddit's shortcomings because it has a massive community that is always active and fills every niche. Reddit's daily active userbase is over 73 million. That's hard to replicate in general, but I don't see Lemmy getting anywhere near that mainstream. I see it as a more stable and active version of Voat, but still a niche platform nonetheless.

Boozilla ,
@Boozilla@lemmy.world avatar

Niche <> bad.

Gorilladrums21 OP ,

It's not bad, but niche is just that. For a platform to become a genuine alternative to Reddit, it needs to appeal to the mainstream.

tyler ,

You do realize that’s why Reddit went down the shitter right? Appealing to the mainstream is literally what got us to the point that everything is filled with ads and misinformation.

chiisana ,
@chiisana@lemmy.chiisana.net avatar

It is probably best to think nothing on Lemmy is private. Any instance with at least one user subscribed to a community will receive updates (messages and votes) on the community. Instance admin can go into the database to see any private message between any user on that instance.

scrubbles ,
@scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

Lol dude got the exact things wrong about Lemmy - clear they haven't spent much time here. Fediverse is NOT privacy focused, in fact it's the opposite. You blast your content out to everyone. The only privacy is your username, and that aint much. It's user owned, that's the saving grace, that corporate doesn't own it. We sacrifice fake corporate privacy for open standards.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Reddit didn't get to 73 million overnight. It took them decades. Lemmy only gets 1 year?

Blaze ,
@Blaze@reddthat.com avatar

Also, 73 million seems exaggerated, or that's counting the bots

morphballganon ,

Actually I have heard of some insane mods

Kaboom ,

Fucking gallowboob, is he still a thing?

Blaze ,
@Blaze@reddthat.com avatar

There are some power tripping mods, thankfully there are only a few

marcos ,

There's an ecosystem of entire instances with crazy rules.

The fact that Lemmy just doesn't become unusable with all this brokerage tells a lot about the benefits of a distributed system.

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

I do kind of miss the private clubs. I had worked my way up through 100K, 150K, 200K and 300K karma clubs before I bailed and came here.

Centennial Club was just the best. It was like Century Club, but way nicer!

Johanno ,

Well well well.

This is a weird way to see it.

You have definitely less people here than on reddit. And the kind of people that even consider leaving reddit because of the reason we left and then chosen lemmy are usually mostly tech nerds. Other people don't care and stay at reddit or twitter or go to the Facebook clone threads.

Your goal here should be information, fun and entertainment.

I personally also read reddit aside to lemmy, but I first go to lemmy and then to reddit. Yes reddit is bigger and has a more active community but it is mostly toxic and ads infested. Without revanced I couldn't stand it.

Gorilladrums21 OP ,

The area where Reddit shines is the big communities for non political topics. Here there isn't an active community, let alone a large one, for any topic that isn't politics, tech, or memes. There's nothing here that appeals to average people like sports, gaming, science, cooking, gardening, etc. I thought this would change, at least a little, over the course of a year, but that didn't really happen. As toxic and ad infested as Reddit is, I don't see Lemmy becoming a mainstream alternative to it.

rimu ,
@rimu@piefed.social avatar

Sports - https://piefed.social/topic/sports-fitness
Gaming - https://piefed.social/topic/gaming
Science - https://piefed.social/topic/science
Cooking - https://piefed.social/topic/food
Gardening - https://lemmy.world/c/gardening

It is understandable that you didn't find those communities, discoverability is a real issue with Lemmy. I have tried to solve this by curating communities into groups of Topics - https://piefed.social/topics

Blaze ,
@Blaze@reddthat.com avatar

At least 3 communities thar are not "tech news, political propaganda and memes"

Feel free to contribute there, I guess it's easier to criticize than build something

lambalicious ,

Not to mention everything community about cats!

ekZepp ,
@ekZepp@lemmy.world avatar
Blaze ,
@Blaze@reddthat.com avatar

Are they all active ? I just opened !horror and the last post was 18 days ago

ekZepp ,
@ekZepp@lemmy.world avatar

Most of them are more active of that one.

Blaze ,
@Blaze@reddthat.com avatar

Good to know, thanks!

Phegan ,

Studies find that the vast majority of users on a platform are passive participants, the vast majority only look, a smaller group looks and comments and finally an even smaller group looks, comment and post. The key to growing any community is to find or be an active poster. It's also an investment, if you post and get only 1 to 2 reactions, that's okay, it takes time. It also means that more people see it and didn't react.

In your example the NBA sub, I am on it and comment from time to time, but don't have the sources or time to post, but if someone took, at least, the links from reddit and posted them here, it's a start. I know NBA reddit has a lot of good discussions which you can't replicate here without more people, but the posting of articles and links is a start.

Carrolade ,

Don't underestimate the power of shitposting.

That said, the Fediverse products are still behind in features, polish and ease-of-use. The mainstream prizes these surface-level things more than any others. It will take years of development still to fully catch up in that regard. So, it's the long-haul.

sunzu ,

Mbin is getting there from UX perpesctive imho

cloudless ,
@cloudless@lemmy.cafe avatar

I disagree.

  • Mbin's terminology (inherited from Kbin) is annoying. Thread vs post vs magazine, boost vs upvote etc are unconventional and annoying.
  • No default sort option. Every time I want to see new posts, I have to manually select "new"
  • User instance and community instance are hidden
  • Difficult to manage/view subscribed magazines
  • Image upload dialogue is confusing

Lemmy has alternative UI such as Voyager and Photon, they are way ahead of Mbin in terms of look and feel.

What do you like about Mbin's UX?

thesocavault ,
@thesocavault@lemmy.world avatar

He has some very valid points. Outside of what he says, it's a challenge at times to build good conversations. Now we are all good for some laughs, but sometimes if you disagree with whatever meme was posted or whatever was posted, the minions come after you. It's almost like you get extreme views and not honest conversations. I find this on different Fediverse applications

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

I feel the exact opposite.

Lemmy is great because the sports guys and other normies aren't here.

AstralPath ,

This sums up my love for the Fediverse.

Neon ,

No it isnt. It's become exactly as toxic as Reddit! If that isn't a succes, I don't know what is!

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