Boomkop3 ,

Not that I've noticed. Plenty of "why this pro-consumer thing is bad for consumers, we should leave power to big corps" blog and news posts tho

Ultragigagigantic ,
@Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world avatar

If under communism everything is shared, that would have to include political power.

So that would make communism a direct democracy. Which communist country was a direct democracy?

TokenBoomer ,

Whoa, whoa, definitions have no power here.

orcrist ,

No. Most communists don't think everything is or should be shared. One basic distinction is personal property vs. private property. If you do a web search and spend 10-15 minutes reading, you can learn how various groups think this ought to work.

(Even if you dislike communism, it's still worth learning what you're talking about.)

Vitaly OP ,
@Vitaly@feddit.uk avatar

Guys please check the list of the communist countries and come back to me to tell if you want to live in there, ok?

Ultragigagigantic ,
@Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world avatar

There is no nation state while living in a commune. Communist country is a oxymoron .

Bartsbigbugbag ,

Yeah, I do. My wife lives in China as we speak, in fact. Why would I not want to live in one of the safest countries on earth with the highest level of automation, easily accessible and cheap housing and food, mandated workers democracy, and high speed rail to and from nearly everywhere of note?

Have you ever been to China? It’s better than the US in many, many ways. I make 4x the minimum wage in my state and can’t afford a one bedroom apartment. My wife makes min wage in her province and can afford her own place. I can’t afford to get medical care even with nice insurance because it’s a scam, my wife got daily IV treatments at a high quality clinic for three weeks for under $300 without insurance. She works today (International Workers Day) and is receiving triple overtime pay for it. I could literally go on for hours.

You’re young, don’t be so self-assured.

Vitaly OP ,
@Vitaly@feddit.uk avatar

I heard that people work a lot and don't have a choice, and enjoy the iron fist of Xi Jinping

AFC1886VCC ,

I'm beginning to see why people call lemmy.world the Reddit of the fediverse

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

It's a microcosm of Reddit, in a lot of bad ways IMO.

  1. Reddit is clearly declining due to enshittification, so more ideological types leave. Radical liberals, Marxists, Anarchists, and so forth leave for other places.

  2. Leftists and people who have more niche interests like programming, Linux, FOSS, Piracy, Star Trek, LGBTQIA+, or other such unique interests go to more specific instances, while people seeking a replacement for Reddit go to the largest generalist instance.

The consequences of 1 and 2 are that Lemmy.world is filled with ideological liberals, but typically not leftists, FOSS enthusiasts, Piracy nerds, Star Trek, or other unique interests. All that's left is the ideological generalist crowd, which is an echo chamber more defined by what it isn't than by what it is.

Sagittarii ,

If you want capitalist propaganda you can go back to reddit lol

applepie ,

Clowns think they can beat Mao and Stalin on genociding dissidents and undesirables.

Vitaly OP ,
@Vitaly@feddit.uk avatar

Yes that is a good example of a communist regime

sxan ,
@sxan@midwest.social avatar

Would you mind telling me what communism is? Like, you don't have to quote Marx, or go into deep detail; I'm just curious about what you think it is.

I'm a capitalist (but not a laissez-faire capitalist), so I'm not trying to trap you with pedantry.

RememberTheApollo_ ,

Why do you hate communism?

Nobody has ever actually done real communism on a national scale. The closest is probably the USSR, but that was a disaster because it was an authoritarian dictatorship that funneled money and power to the top. People only got token representation, the people were not actually in charge of anything, they got no real say in their leadership. Doesn’t matter that it was structured like communism says it should be, the reality of it was anything but communism.

Real communism would probably be pretty decent. There wouldn’t be too much to hate about it other than what you’d dislike in any government.

The problem is the humans running it. It’s a constant battle against power-hungry and self-serving people being in charge, just like any government, and no nation espousing communism has ever managed to prevent authoritarianism and basic kleptocratic people from settling in and running the show.

  • I am not for communism or here to espouse any virtues it might have. The concept of communism certainly has appeal and presents many benefits, however the reality of implementation and human nature virtually guarantee it will never achieve its intended form.
Honytawk ,

Real communism will never work for the same reason a completely free market would never work.

Too many people are greedy and selfish.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

People are shaped by their environment, people seem greedy and selfish because of Capitalism. Primitive communism existed for thousands of years, and people were cooperative and communal.

Why do you believe selfish and greedy people existing in Communism would strain or ruin it?

spez_ ,

Nazi, get out of our community

platypus_plumba ,

Why are you calling him Nazi... Damn, I was gone from Lemmy for 4 months and came back to this childish shit. I'm out again.

spez_ ,

Get out

m13 ,

“I’m 17 and I hate communism”

😂 enough said. Come back when you’re a bit older and a bit wiser.

TokenBoomer ,

Let’s not be condescending and ageist. I was well into my ‘40’s when I even entertained learning about socialism or communism. We all have to start sometime.

Honytawk ,

You don't even have to be wise to understand the problems communism has, it only helps

So your comment doesn't make sense.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

What problems does Communism have?

Rhoeri ,
@Rhoeri@lemmy.world avatar

It doesn’t fucking work.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Why?

Rhoeri ,
@Rhoeri@lemmy.world avatar

I’m 52 and I hate communism. Whatcha got now?

geissi ,

Communism is by definition a society without a state, so nobody has ever lived in a communist state and I doubt there has ever been a communist society in recorded history.

MrEff ,

That is at a 'state' level, there are still smaller level communist places to live. Like where the word 'Commune' comes from and what communism was derived from and attempted to expand into. There are communes all over the world. US included. There is a famous one in London, lots of large ones in Spain. They are communities that exist in their own bubble of micro economics within their larger communities of normal living. You should look it up. They are interesting and normally very appealing.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Comminism, along Marxist lines, is meant to have a World Repunlic. It will have a government, but not a state.

Communes are more along Anarchist lines.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Comminism isn't anarchic, Anarcho-Communism is. While it's true that Communism has never been reached, it isn't because government remained. The State in Marxian terms refers to the mechanisms by which one class oppresses the other, once class is abolished there need not be a state.

Communism was always meant to be a world republic.

Ultragigagigantic ,
@Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world avatar

Communism was always meant to be a world republic.

I don't see any other way for communism to exist. Any other remaining nation states would eventually try to expand into the stateless territory.

TokenBoomer ,

Congratulations for discovering Marxist-Leninism, please pickup your complimentary pamphlet and a fruit pastry. /s

merthyr1831 ,

When you leave reddit, a corporatised and astroturfed bot farm you're gonna get less liberal and right wing stuff that only existed to make money or exert political influence.

If you're really upset by it you can filter lemmy.ml which is gonna be the main source of left wing posting.

Pollux ,

Also lemmy.dbzer0.com since its admin rightfully hates liberals. And lemmy.world admins have already blocked !piracy lol

I'd rather OP just goes back to reddit though honestly. There are already a surprising amount of capitalist bootlickers on Lemmy for an open source platform

diplodocus ,
@diplodocus@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

If you’re really upset by it you can filter lemmy.ml which is gonna be the main source of left wing posting.

That's true for you, anyway, because your instance is defederated from lemmygrad and hexbear.

pyre ,

why not? if you'd like a more capitalist experience you can always go to reddit. don't forget to download their shitty app that no longer has competitors.

Apytele ,

idek if I can be called communist but I've certainly noticed that unfettered capitalism seems to result in a LOT of monopolies...

Pollux ,

They don't want reddit but want its liberal echo chamber lmao

jeremyparker ,

Lol you just provided the simplest counter to the most common capitalist argument.

"You don't understand capitalism, bro. The problem isn't capitalism, it's the regulation on capitalism. Under a true capitalist system, there can't be monopolies because capitalism rewards competition."

Ok so what happened to all the reddit apps


Edit: I really like the reddit app example because it's simple: no regulation or anti-capitalist force made them to that, it was literally just a capitalist decision.

But regulatory capture is an important part of capitalism, and no matter how many ancap bullshit artists say otherwise, government is absolutely part of the capitalist plan. Giving the workers a "say" (or the illusion of one) keeps them a bit quieter, but more importantly, having a government outsources a lot of crap they would otherwise have to pay for, like infrastructure, which would be a huge strain on profits.

In fact, the ancap bullshit idea that unregulated markets would improve things is an artificial limitation on capitalist power. Total lack of regulation is a restriction on capitalism.

ieatmeat ,

Especially people who never lived in a communist state

rekabis ,

Especially people who never lived in a communist state

That’s a rather impossible requirement, considering that all “communist states” to date have been oligarchic autocracies that were just as much about communism as they were democratic.

Real communism is market ownership by the people, and not some elite cabal of politicians or capitalists. And a top-down planned economy is pretty much anti-communism, as it violates the very fundamentals of communism as being worker-driven.

Ironfist ,
@Ironfist@sh.itjust.works avatar

considering that all “communist states” to date have been oligarchic autocracies

And you think that is a coincidence?

rekabis ,

Considering how America is moving towards that same state, with it’s Republicans?

No, I don’t think it’s a coincidence. Oligarchic autocracies can occur under any circumstances where a power-hungry elite manage to wrest control by using the masses as “useful idiots”. The Conservative leadership, in general, have learned this trick very well.

Ironfist ,
@Ironfist@sh.itjust.works avatar

oh im not defending by any means the unregulated system of the USA, my point was against communism, not in favor of something else in particular.

uriel238 ,
@uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Part of the problem is capitalist regimes keep sending assassins to murder leaders of communist movements, such as FBI killing the Black Panther leaders.

Law enforcement in the US is harassing mutual aid organizations. Maybe they're afraid we'll repair the park fences and deny some business a choice government contract?

jeremyparker ,

While you're not wrong, it's important to retain a global perspective. There are "communist" leaders that were total pieces of shit and while they did have help, that help wasn't always capitalist. Stalin is an example here.

And then there's pieces of shit who were supported by external forces, but not by capitalist regimes seeking to undermine them. I'm not 100% confident in this history, and there's no way I'm going to spell his name right, but, the Romanian piece if shit, Caucescu (???) came to power riding a wave of support from the Nazis. Hitler didn't do it to destabilize Romania, but because he was like, "there's some good old fashioned fascist genociders down there, let's give them more guns." And those fascist genociders were technically communists.

What I'm getting at is that the enemies of a worker-ruled communist state are many, and many of those enemies are within their own systems. Communism, like every other system, suffers from the fact that there are humans involved. Just because a communism exists doesn't mean it's going to be utopia.

But that also doesn't mean that communism can't be good, or at least better.

uriel238 ,
@uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

As a note, fascism is a tool of industrialist plutocrats to extend the life of their power as worker class quality of life deteriorates. While Hoover was in power during the Great Depression, US industrialists were looking to Hitler and Mussolini while laborers were looking to the Soviet Union.

As per the Christian nationalist movement / transnational white power movement in the US, our dependence on capitalism has driven us to the verge of civil war, and a push by the Republican party to single-party autocracy and purges of undesirable demographics, including the impoverished and homeless.

I can't speak to Nicolae and Elena Ceaușescu except to say autocracy always tends to go badly, with power consolidated until abuse and corruption is inevitable.

The whole idea behind communism is to imagine what a functional public serving state would look like, and then how to get there from here. Marx speculates on steps that might work to get to a starting point, but much like the framers of the Constitution of the United States, he didn't know everything and couldn't predict how it all plays out in given circumstances.

(US constitutional framers never did democracy before. They favored landowners. They assumed common homesteaders would be driven to understand and vote for their own best interests. And they got broadsided by the industrial revolution. Also, FPTP elections and two-party systems suck.)

We know civil wars tend to lead to serial dictatorships and foreign influencers looking to exploit economic vulnerability. We also grassroots mutual aid movements take generations and are prone to disruption by time and circumstances, particularly raiders and police forces. So we're still trying to chart the geography between here and utopia.

Sootius ,

Sure I'll just go in my alt-history time travel machine and be born in a communist state. Sorry for suggesting we improve things somewhat?

Maalus ,

You should go into your alt history time machine and realize how shitty it is living under communism. Why do you think every country bordering Russia hates them so much?

jackal ,

Must really suck to have guaranteed housing and income lol

Maalus ,

If you think that's how it worked, then I have news for you.

Vitaly OP ,
@Vitaly@feddit.uk avatar

You don't even need to travel in time to feel the communist spirit, just go to any post-soviet country and see the reality for yoursef.

Bartsbigbugbag ,

You mean the capitalist ex-Soviet states? Lmao.

Vitaly OP ,
@Vitaly@feddit.uk avatar

Or just go to north korea or cuba and see how they live

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Well, it was created by "communists."

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