Ill see what happens, presidents like to talk big before they're elected, but if everything really goes down the shitter, and project 2025 is successful I'll seriously consider leaving. Very fortunately I am British by decent. Not the greatest improvement but a significant one nonetheless.
I'm a proficient software engineer and have the financial means to leave. I'm staying. 100%. This isn't a fight we can run from. If the US falls to fascism, there's a lot more damage we can expect around the world.
The plan is to increase the rhetoric and efforts already in place, but hopefully with more participation, as people (hopefully) slowly wake up to reality.
I had a buddy once in a previous job who didn't vote in 2016. His stance was that the system was "working as intended", and voting was equivalent to condoning the system. Not voting was his way of exercising his freedom of speech. I disagreed with his logic but I understood, mainly because I couldn't verbalize a valid and logical counterargument. Today I can.
My buddy was right. The system is working as intended. But you can't say that without also stating that, at our best, more than ⅓ of eligible voters don't vote. Couple that with a system meant to disadvantage large populations, and, yeah, the system is working as intended. I believe that our best option is to stay and fight by being politically active and encouraging others to do the same.
I also do believe in our fellow man. Trump has plenty of supporters, but I honestly believe they're outnumbered and endangered. This doesn't make them less dangerous. Probably moreso tbh. And even though they're outnumbered, the only way to truly push forward is to keep up the fight and not underestimate them. We need to be louder, fight harder, and make our voices heard when it counts. ie, vote.
But I also don't have kids. My sister left Texas when she decided to start having children and I support that decision 100%. This is no place to raise a child.
This isn’t a fight we can run from. If the US falls to fascism, there’s a lot more damage we can expect around the world.
saying that it could be similar to germany during that one thing they did would be an understatement, considering how much bigger the US is, and how much more influence it has.
It would be global, if not near global. The only good thing would be the fact that china and russia exist, and exist in significant capacity to do something about it (though it's debatable that they would) oh and india.
I also do believe in our fellow man. Trump has plenty of supporters, but I honestly believe they’re outnumbered and endangered. This doesn’t make them less dangerous. Probably moreso tbh. And even though they’re outnumbered, the only way to truly push forward is to keep up the fight and not underestimate them. We need to be louder, fight harder, and make our voices heard when it counts. ie, vote.
it's important to remember that the right is incredibly fractured right now, every party in the right hates each other. Unless everyone somehow collectively agrees, they will likely deconstruct themselves in part.
In any sane world he’d have no chance. At least he’s shown enough incompetence and appointed so many corrupt greedy assistance, that he won’t succeed in doing as much damage as he wants, except to Ukraine. At this point it’s hard to believe he’s running for anything more than staying out of jail, making himself above the law
This time around the people surrounding him know what they need to do. It’s not like last time where they kinda tried to run the government with some pretense of obeying the rules. IMO should trump win this time they’re just going to go all-in and place themselves permanently in power.
We cannot house and feed you. Most of you will die of exposure the first winter you are here.
If you have thoughts of coming here with guns and taking our homes or food by force know that most of us outside the cities are armed, we're just not so scared that we constantly show off our guns and feel no need to go prepared for combat to buy donuts or groceries.
So, Mexico is your best bet, if they will take you. I bet you'll be glad that all the talk of a border wall was just neo-fascist virtue signaling.
I simply pointed out the reality of the situatuation. Canada can't take in millions of American refugees fleeing a christofascist authoritarian regime.
Ok. Explain to me how a country of 40 million people that doesn't have sufficient housing for the people who are here now can house millions of political refugees from the US before winter hits and they all freeze to death?
Keep in mind we're not talking about gradual immigration. We're talking a wave of potentially millions of refugees fleeing a christofascist dictatorship or civil war.
Yeah. Also, clearly doesn't understand what is going on (TBF, I don't know shit about Canadian politics either), but the stupid violent people with guns will be overjoyed if trump is the president.
You're well north of the south most point in Canada. You're practically Canadian. We just don't have enough housing up here to take in a bunch of refugees. If Americans end up in tent city refugee camps they will die in winter. We could put a few tens of thousands in school gymnasiums and community centers but it would turn into a humanitarian disaster.
I'm shocked more people aren't already better prepared for this, but it's actually the same thing we should be doing now, and continue to do if Biden actually wins:
Organize locally. Get hyperlocal. Organize your city, neighbors, block, building, workplace, and friend group. Establish mutual aid networks, take back city councils, county boards, and school boards from the stewards of landlords and big employers.
Establish protection for those who need it, and plant the crop of future national leaders who will do the long overdue work of putting government to work for the masses. Make it harder for any president or governor to exercise state violence by getting our people in prosecutors offices and judgeships.
The Democrats are not going to save us. Biden is just planning to go down with the ship. Absolutely vote for the lesser of two evils if you live somewhere where your vote matters, but recognize that the Democratic party is not an ally to the antifascist movement, because combating fascism conflicts with the interests of capital.
That can change, but until it does, don't put faith in them. Anything positive they do will be because power-players were replaced. And that starts in your own neighborhood.
Edit: Since this has been well received, I want to say a quick word on third parties: don't be afraid of them.
Without getting into a lot of details, there are a lot of myths about the risks that third parties present, but before we parrot all of that, we should just acknowledge that there is no harm in listening to their platforms. It doesn't make you a kook to hear ideas that often get suppressed by the mainstream, or to use third parties as a way to network and meet people. I think Jill Stein has a lot of useful things to say, and if a pollster asks me, I will gladly try to bump her numbers up so that she is harder to ignore. Don't be afraid to do that.
This is good, and I'm piggybacking so I can add on:
Get a passport, make friends in another country.
Vote to slow them down, yell at anyone who tries to say that it's better to not vote or that Trump would be better for Palestinians.
If you want to engage in electoral reform, you need to start years in advance.
If you live in Texas: Vote for Biden and encourage GOP voters to not vote for Trump. If you're in a place with lots of GOP weirdos, try publicly and loudly watch his rallies at 1.5x speed; I've heard it breaks the spell b/c his cadence gets disrupted. If Texas goes blue, Biden wins and all the DNC voters suddenly know they can win, making it immediately more likely.
If all else fails, remember someone might [Comment Cannot Legally Be Finished], which would solve multiple problems.
Texas was won by fewer than 633k votes. Considering Trump's popularity I'd say it's ripe for flipping but we can't lay down on the job. Also the GOP policies are pushing out liberals and people that are vulnerable (LGBTQ+ and families with LGBTQ+ kids) so the window is closing.
I believe this so strongly!!! Everywhere i go i beg people to vote. It was really only a few percentage points. We don't even have to flip people; just get the non-voters to go to the polls.
Think it's worth mentioning that U.S. politics sets the tone of politics in a lot of the west. When Trump won, the alt-right parties in more or less all of Europe grew significantly. Here in Sweden over the span of the almost 8 years since, our nazi party grew from a smaller party that the right wingers argued whether or not they should collaborate with in order to create a right-wing coalition and win majority, to the second largest party in Sweden.
Here in 2016 South Africa our online media spaces lit up like a fucking Christmas tree with all the white supremacists coming out of the woodwork to celebrate Trump's win. Since then, the second-largest of our (so-called) "opposition" parties - a party that can pretty much be described as the party of white liberalism - has dumped any black people they had in senior positions and began using GOP-esqe dog-whistling. All our parties - pretty much the entire formal political establishment - has been very receptive to violent, USian-style anti-immigrant narratives.
So yeah... you can flee the US - but you can't really escape US politics.
Last election we had here (2022) surveillance and stop and frisk were decently big talking points. Even the supposed Liberals are like "uwu so sad privacy is dying we have to be careful but big brother needs to sees you we nweed to be hawd on cwime!1!" I think the only party that's not OK with it is the leftists.
Lol! That reminds me... about three years ago I was notified of a "town meeting to discuss local problems" held at a local school here in middle-of-nowhere South Africa. It turns out it was just a shady PR attempt by the local branch of the "white liberal" party I described above (the so-called "Democratic Alliance"), and the suit there doesn't talk about our decrepit and failing water, electricity and sewage infrastructure or the fact that this mining town is being economically extinguished by privatized interests... instead, the only order of business was to brag about how they had set up surveillance in our main streets and handing off the data to the piggy for free.
I feel like strangling that particular suit every damn time I lay eyes on him.
I still don't quite get how these people make sense of the world. We recently had a big reveal that our nazi party is using "anonymous social media accounts" to try and influence popular opinion. They claim that they don't, and that the accounts aren't affiliated with the party, but there was a whole report on the thing and it's landed them in some hot water. The people voting for them are pretty much unfazed but the right-block alliance overall has taken quite a hit to their public support.
One of the things these people who supposedly really love Sweden discussed, was how they could perhaps create some sort of campaign website to try and incide violence among migrants, and possibly incite terror attacks. Like, how do you reconcile your "patriotism and love for your country" with wanting people to perform terror attacks?
Were I to play devil's advocate I'd say that it's possible that they were just shooting the shit, but even then? Isn't it a bit over the top? As a gay guy I'm not joking about conversion therapy or forcible sterilisations.
was how they could perhaps create some sort of campaign website to try and incide violence among migrants,
We had that exact thing here in South Africa in the late 80s and early 90s - the only difference was that it was actually enabled by the Apartheid-state through their terrorist proxies (ie, mainly the South African Police). When the anti-Apartheid groups didn't act "terroristic" enough for their taste, they just did it themselves and used the media to create a narrative of "black-on-black violence" to try and destabilize the country.
Like, how do you reconcile your “patriotism and love for your country” with wanting people to perform terror attacks?
They "love" their countries in the same way that a rapist "loves" his victims - the feel themselves entitled to it and deserving of holding the power of life and death over it. They do not actually care about the real people living in Sweden in any way whatsoever. That's pretty much standard fare when it comes to far right-wing ideology no matter what part of the world you find them in.
The reason they want to "incite" (so-called) "terror attacks" among migrants they see as not "white," "Swedish" or "Nordic" enough is two-fold.
Firstly, they want the Swedish people to see these migrants the way they see them - as a (supposedly) bloodthirsty and rapacious "other." Not much different from the way the Nazis portrayed the "Jewish-Bolshevik hordes" before and during WW2. A (supposed) "terror attack" that can be blamed on the "other" will essentially result in the media performing this function for them.
Secondly, they want an atmosphere of panic - such as existed right after 9/11 in the US. They know that such a state of things will allow their ideology to suddenly seem "relevant" in the same way that militarism suddenly became standard fare in the US afterwards.
Continue living in California, and probably not go to any red state. At least not with my wife. Continue to vote Democrat and spread progressive values.
My plan is to vote in candidates at all levels that are endorsed by The Forward Party.
We need to overhaul our voting system so that we're not trapped in this downward spiral of a 2 party system that we're currently in. Ranked Choice voting, Star voting, Approval voting... they all have pros and cons but any one of them is better than the current system that we have.
The way we get better options for Presidential candidates is to have a voting system that gives other parties a chance.
I don't care if I have to vote for a particular Republican, Democrat, or some third party individual for this to be accomplished.
Following the trend of "vote out all Republicans/Democrats" is how we got here in the first place.
Can I persuade you to choose party for socialism and liberation over fwd where there is one?
Psl is a far left party whose vision of democracy is radically far reaching, extending into even the workplace. Unless you simply favor the self described centrist policies of fwd, psl might be more your speed where there is a candidate.
I think you're misunderstanding what the Forward Party is.
You can be a part of any side of the political spectrum and still fall in line with the Forward Party.
The only thing that the Forward Party cares about is overhauling the voting system with something better: RCV, Star, Approval, etc.
They don't take a stance on much of anything else.
And in terms of priority, any candidate endorsed by the Forward Party has my initial vote. If multiple candidates in the same race are backed by the forward party, then I will start digging in deeper to figure out which one I want to vote for.
So I just barely make it into the classes that do well under trump, but I’m very worried as the social safety net is falling apart for most americans, and that republican rule only speeds that problem. I’m going to be trying to strengthen resources that help people trying to make it to self-sufficiency, but I can’t overcome the typical american attitude of “I’ve failed because I need help.” I guess the best plan for most people is to take care of those around them, be moral and resist bad policy by quiet lack of compliance, and try to help good people get out of bad parts of the country so they collapse all the sooner.
Step one: Buy a few firearms, for different scenarios (which should be easier under Trump sigh)
Step two: Go to work, home, and limit unnecessary errands, order for delivery more.
Step three: Practice marksmanship with various firearms. I have a country, but sane, friend of the family with a shooting range on her land.
Step four: Hunker down in my deep red state, because I hold non-christian belief's and I won't recant them on pain of death. Not because my beliefs "protect" me, but because as an American, I believe in freedom of religion and I'll die a proud American before I die as a Christian, my belief's don't matter compared to that. The protection of those belief's does.
Most common for those that don't know: 9mm & .40 for handgun, 5.56/.223 for rifle, 12ga shotgun. (These are the calibers used by police & military in case you need to 'borrow' ammo in an emergency)
7.62 & .308 are probably next up in rifle, then .380 for handgun..22LR is another good one to hoard.
Spend a solid week posting screenshots of my comments on this platform about how the DNC is digging their own grave after they inevitably blame the voters for their loss just like in 2016.
For me? Spain is my primary choice right now but Costa Rica or Belize could also be options. Nowhere is perfect just need to find something that has a chance at least.
Portugal is supposed to be another good option but I have yet to go there.
I'm a bit cynical here and I think the country is headed down the same path whether Trump or Biden wins in November. We're seeing pseudo-fascist rhetoric increase in frequency. We're seeing authoritarian and militaristic policies pass virtually unopposed through our political system. War is virtually guaranteed with either candidate.
I know this opinion may be unpopular but I don't think this election matters very much. There are of course potential differences- such as access to abortion. If Biden wins, maybe there's more hope. But that's really it- just hope. Democrats have had majorities dozens of times since Roe V Wade was ruled and never wrote abortion into law.
I don't think it's suddenly going to change in the next 4 years which looks to be a potentially very dangerous period of time geopolitically speaking. Biden isn't going to have very much political capital to spend and the Overton Window is gradually shifting right.
Instead of looking only at this election, look at the next. And the one after. Do people think MAGA will go away? The world is in economic and geopolitical restructuring- instability breeds radicalism. The problem will likely only get worse. Especially with another weak Democratic administration.
Which brings me to the answer to your question. I have dual citizenship in South America. The only reasons I would leave the US are if there is a WW3 scenario or some sort of clear descent into a form of fascism. We're toying with it right now, but it can get a lot worse.
It probably won't be much better in my home country if I'm being honest, but there will be less chances for war. Any global war will inevitably involve the US in some capacity.
Have you heard about Project 2025? This is what’s so scary about Trump that isn’t true about Biden. In 2017, Trump was the dog who caught the car, but in 2025 he will come in with a plan and allies helping him move as fast as possible to unravel environmental protections, public school funding, consumer protections, scientific research, and increase the amount of right-wing Christianity in the US government as much as they can. And that just what there is skimming the Wikipedia article. In 2017 Trump started his term with some clumsy executive orders, many of which were immediately enjoined/overturned - in 2025 he will come in with prewritten executive orders with a much stronger legal standing that will be much more effective.
Trump put polarizing figures in his cabinet in “acting” roles because he couldn’t get them through the Senate (like Betsy DeVos who screwed over thousands of student loan borrowers and worked to take money out of public schools). He’ll do that again.
And while I agree there’s some things I’d like Biden to do that he isn’t, he and Trump aren’t remotely equivalent. Biden has gotten a huge amount of legislation passed for climate action, he’s forgiven student loans for 10s of thousands of people (many of whom were promised service-based loan forgiveness and then screwed over by DeVos).
You’re right that MAGA won’t go away. But Trump is a unique figure on the right, and one that is particularly dangerous right now. There isn’t one thing we can do to change the minds of his supporters, but every election we keep him out of power is 4 more years until all the Project 2025 shit can come true.
I've heard of Project 2025. It seems like the Democrats in office have not. Heck, just this morning, I read Jennifer Rubin's op-ed about how Sen. Durbin (chair of the Judiciary Committee) is so peeved he's almost on the verge of sending a Very Sternly Worded Letter about one of our Supreme Court justices being an insurrectionist.
Why wait? Did the math, and depending where you go and what state you currently live in, you might even pay less in taxes (or even about the same if you go somewhere high tax like Finland and are coming from a lower tax state like Wisconsin - only 2.3% difference) while also not having to pay in healthcare. Public transportation is so excellent here a car is literally just a luxury, so if you can even consider transportation savings.
Really the only hurdle is language, but practice everyday really hard and you can get the gist of it. Most international companies here use English as primary working language anyhow.
The main hurdle is really experience (I am <5yr) and family (my parents are aging and may need my intervention in fewer years than I think). Firms usually only hire internationally for skilled engineers and there's no guarantee my accredited degree from the US is valid anywhere else. And if I went someplace other than Canada, the travel costs would likely result in me only coming back to see the rest of my family once every two years, which sucks and could pose actual problems.
Don't get me wrong, I honestly do like the idea of going someplace with real human rights, but unless it becomes clear there is actually a threat to my existence I can't justify that big of a change. I love my family too much.
I fully understand. But just do consider that once it begins a threat to your existence, it might be too late, based off past history in other places at least. Consider that EU countries are preparing for a potential Trump presidency too, and Finland and others will no longer accept entry with just a passport, even for vacation, starting next year. That's why I'm determined to help as many as I can move now while there's still time.
If you do want to look into jobs here in Finland at least I'd be glad to help.