I've been trying to understand what it means that an autistic brain is bombarded with so much information. We spent some time at our summer cottage and I think I got some insight in this.
Instead of seeing the lake in front of my eyes, everywhere I looked I saw a detail. Its size would vary but it would still be a detail. A swan there, its partner there, no leaves on that tree yet, what a cool pattern on the small waves, what does it look like when I move my eyes this way, or that way, a car on the opposite shore, the shadow of the tree, I wonder what seagulls those are etc. A new detail with every single glance.
At the same time my attention tried to keep track of the dog and listened to birds singing and bumblebees flying around.
Now I wonder what it feels like just to see the lake.
@LehtoriTuomo@actuallyautistic for me an unexpected bonus of 'middle-aged' sight loss is that because things are blurry (I've lost distance rather than reading) if I don't wear my glasses I can't get distracted by detail!
Interesting. I do not see all those details, bc my brain deals with too much sound, wind, feelings, emotions. I have trouble seeing details others point out. What seagull?
My experience is more like a strong feeling while being there and seeing water in front of me.
@LehtoriTuomo@actuallyautistic possibly related - my therapist recently suggested an energy-protecting coping strategy for when I'm out in public. she asked me to imagine my aura and then imagine myself reaching/pushing to its edges around me. this requires sort of psychic-ly interacting with my surroundings. when I did that for the first time, I was floored by my awareness of a sense of the "everything" about where I was. it felt electric
I'm trying to use meditation to strengthen that sense
@LehtoriTuomo@actuallyautistic y'all know the "how a scientist sees the world" meme, with written formulas all over the nature trees etc? I've ALWAYS thought that that's not a scientist'a view but an ND person's, but what do I know [very good scientists = have to be very creative and, you know what I'm implying here]...
@LehtoriTuomo@actuallyautistic One of the things that I figured out (with help!) during my evaluation is connected to that.
Basically, I was given a picture of a bunch of geometric figures and was told to draw a copy of it. And then I was told to draw it from memory twice. (Rey Complex Figures Test, to be specific)
Well, I started from one edge and drew a triangle, and then there was another triangle attached to that, and then a ...
Apparently allistic people start by creating the main figure, and then add the various bits!
Which seems like it's connected to your "can't see just the lake"
Like, during the examination my psychologist explained that the way I did it was a more complicated/atypical way, but didn't show what he meant exactly. So when my psychiatrist (in Sweden autism evaluations are made by a team of psychiatrist + psychologist, using various tests as well as their experience, and ends with a report that summarises their findings) some time later asked about whether the evaluator had shown it to me and I said no ... He managed to draw a decent approximation of a figure he hadn't seen in months! Because he looked at "big picture", not details.
To add some other context, typical training for drawing (especially figure drawing and landscape) is to start with blocking in the big picture, and then add the details.
This is because it's an efficient way to ensure you get the proportions "right".
If you're drawing a person, for example, and start with the mouth rendered in detail, and then the nose in detail, and then the eyes etc, you're more likely to end up with those features being out of proportion large.
But it's just another way of drawing, of course, and no less correct or valid than the "proper" way which would be to lightly sketch the entire figure using general shapes, and then go back with multiple passes, adding more detail at every pass.
Very difficult to prove which method is inherent to a particular neurotype especially because people are trained to draw in particular ways.
Then again, I have been taught drawing, so how much of that is an actual "learned behavior" instead of...you know...what a person would normally do, unprompted?
@roknrol
Good question. From what I've seen of beginner drawing, people generally tend to go for the "details first" version unless they've been trained.
No way for me to know their neurotype, but it's common enough for me to assume that "details first" isn't necessarily an ND thing.
That's a problem I had in school - I would always have to write the whole essay first and then write the outline from it because how do I know what's going to be in the essay until I've written it?!
I used to try to write a lot...I can see the value of an outline, but the act of writing the outline is basically writing the story. I've more or less learned to skip the outline and just do full drafts (which I end up having to rewrite multiple times because...shocker...no outline).
It's a barrier I wish I could overcome (and I do continue to try).
Nowadays, I would start with an outline if I was asked to write an essay, but that’s because I have enough reading, writing and life experience that I would have a guess at what that essay would look like.
I just imagined sitting down to write a novel (which I’m actually trying to do right now) and that totally wouldn’t work with an outline. I only have a vague idea what the main themes are but I don’t know the story until I explore it with my characters.
I would argue that it's a back-and-forth anyway. Especially with more technical stuff, I write a kind-of outline first, (actually bullet points with sub-points, where each bullet point is a short sentence). That way, I have short, simple sentences that I can move around until it "fits", then turn everything into text.
But in any case, the important thing is "figuring out what to say". And that is a process, not a single step. So "writing a first draft, then iterating until it fits" is IMHO the "normal" way to do it anyway.
@alexisbushnell@roknrol@Zumbador@melindrea@LehtoriTuomo@actuallyautistic
Haha. I write using an outline, but I used to turn in fake "drafts" of already finished papers, where I took stuff out and dumbed it down, because we were supposed to turn them in at various stages but that's not really how I write.
I don't write and rewrite papers. By the time it contains everything from the introduction to the conclusion, the paper is in what will be its final form except for proofreading.
I recently came across a description of autistic brains as "bottom up" processing and that really fits me.
They describe neurotyoicals as having "big picture" oriented brains. They really quickly start filtering out anything that doesn't suit what gets identified as the big picture in their mind.
Autistics, otoh, are more often "bottom up" processors. We see ALL the details and have to sift through them to construct what we see as the big picture.
I do a hybrid, where I posit an initial high-level mental model, then do a bottom-up analysis, looking at all of the details, looking for similarities and differences, and seeing what fits the initial model and what doesn’t. If I am lucky, I got it right, otherwise, I modify my initial model to fit the facts and details, then go back to the bottom up approach.
The benefit of this is I am less likely to overlook important things because of preconceived notions. The drawback is that I can easily get stuck in an infinite loop of looking at details, calibrating my mental model, looking at details, changing the model, looking at details, throwing the initial model out entirely, etc.
It once took me 6 months to choose which television to buy. Of course, when I finally figured it out, I got exactly what I wanted, and used it for 15 years before getting a new one.
Bottom up processing is very relatable, especially in the way I have to have a thorough understanding of the underlying principles before I can grok the more complex layer.
How many times have I felt stupid because I'm the only one to ask "but how does x actually work?" only to find that everyone else is happy to just accept received wisdom that "x works somehow, never mind how let's move on. "
@bhawthorne@actuallyautistic yeah! I'm pretty similar, I do really like having the big picture model, but I often have to build it for myself.
It makes coding a delight. It is an absolute joy to finally have the pieces to understand a complex program, but that often comes after several weeks being lost in the docs and code.
@Zumbador I just look at artists like Picasso, who pretty much chopped facial features up, and reassembled them haphazardly - and he was hailed a genius. Art is subjective, as is photography. @melindrea@roknrol@LehtoriTuomo@actuallyautistic
@Zumbador@melindrea@roknrol@LehtoriTuomo@actuallyautistic this is blowing my mind. I have been drawing and doodling my entire life and I could never imagine any way to try to reproduce something with lines without starting in one place and drawing out from there.
@roknrol@melindrea@LehtoriTuomo@actuallyautistic I just looked at the picture and… there’s a main figure? What main figure, the big rectangle or the hourglass or the circle that’s a bowling ball or a head depending on your mood?
@LehtoriTuomo@actuallyautistic this is why we make the best beach combers. I can spot the cool rocks & shells way before anyone else... and all my friends are ND of one blend or another.
I think it's also why I often find injured wildlife. I found an injured pigeon squab sitting on a busy path and not one person even seemed to take notice of it. Just walked right past it. I can't help noticing the out of place little grey & brown blobs that are trying to hide.