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Cosmicomical , to Technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back

I don't want to be the guy that always says Linux, but...
...Linux

dumpsterlid ,

It is okay to be the person that always recommends Linux, especially if you are a kind person with the patience to explain things to people in approachable terms (and you don’t just scream at people SOMEBODY ALREADY ASKED THIS QUESTION USE SEARCH whenever a newbie walks in the door and asks the obvious questions a newbie would ask).

Now is the time, Linux is pulled up out front waiting to pick us up (with bags packed) and Microsoft is loudly shitting the bed upstairs, NOW is the time to walk straight out the front door, jump in the car with Linux and never look back. We owe it to Microsoft’s long relationship with consumers to leave Microsoft sitting confused on the porcelain throne wondering why they were abandoned and where all the toilet paper is (we are the toilet paper in this metaphor).

FilthyCheese ,

Most people aren't going to bother when the specific software they want to use aren't supported.

explodicle ,

Microsoft has been relying on that for >20 years now and it's starting to show signs of strain.

FilthyCheese ,

I've heard this before.

explodicle ,

So you don't think there's a straw breaking the camel's back?

FilthyCheese ,

I think people are happy to eat shit. They'll complain about it, sure. But they'll slurp it up like ice cream.

Otherwise, MTX heavy games wouldn't be rewarded so heavily.

Early on, you'll see some movement. Some people will transfer to Linux - most will go back. A bunch of outraged threads.

But it will die down. People will just accept it. They always do. They always will.

Cosmicomical ,

Well they said the same about AI and at some point it became true enough to be a problem

FilthyCheese ,

I'm trying to see a correlation.

Cosmicomical ,

True but there is less and less stuff that you cannot do properly on linux.

Cosmicomical ,

SOMEBODY ALREADY ASKED THIS QUESTION USE SEARCH

I don't understand this approach, if you don't want to answer, just don't answer. Why would you waste time writing that you won't answer?

Sawzall ,

I will not answer this. Just search.

Cosmicomical ,

I thought you were a search engine.

I_Miss_Daniel ,

Yeah but there's like 20 of them, and many are half-baked. How is a n00b to choose one?

NutWrench , to Technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back
@NutWrench@lemmy.world avatar

The switch to Linux will have to come from the bottom up. Corporations will NOT switch until Microsoft costs them serious money.

mypasswordis1234 , to Technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back
@mypasswordis1234@lemmy.world avatar

TL;DR:

  • Windows Recall, part of Microsoft's new Copilot+ PC initiative, has sparked major privacy and security concerns.
  • The feature uses AI to capture and store screen data locally, allowing users to search for past activities using natural language.
  • Despite assurances that data is not uploaded to the cloud or used by Microsoft, user trust is lacking.
  • Microsoft has a history of practices that have eroded user trust, including obtrusive ads, ignoring user preferences, and requiring Microsoft Accounts.
  • Users are skeptical, fearing future misuse of the collected data for advertising or AI training.
  • Windows Recall reportedly stores data unencrypted, making it vulnerable to access by third-party apps and potential malware.
  • The open nature of Windows amplifies these risks, unlike more secure systems like iOS and Android.
  • Users have compared Windows Recall to spyware, with many threatening to switch to other operating systems like Linux or Mac.
  • Microsoft's attempts to keep the development of Windows Recall secret did not help build trust.
  • Windows Recall will only be available on new Copilot+ PCs, requiring specific hardware not present in existing PCs.
  • Users will have the option to disable the feature, but there are concerns about it being enabled by default.
  • Despite security issues, the feature is effective in helping users find lost or forgotten data.
  • It could improve productivity if trust and security concerns are resolved.
Epzillon ,

Windows Recall does NOT require NPU hardware to run. Currently Recall has been tested on Windows 11 with only a CPU and it seems to be fully operational. Of course performance is not as good as with an NPU. I believe Microsoft will try to push AI to local computing by only enabling on computers with NPUs to begin with. In the future it will most likely be able to be enabled on PCs which does not have an NPU but with a warning of bad performance in front of it.

secret300 ,

In the future most CPU's will prolly have an NPU built in. We already seeing it with ryzen

NutWrench , to Technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back
@NutWrench@lemmy.world avatar

I finally switched to Linux Mint a week ago. I've just had enough of Microsoft and I couldn't think of any more reasons why I shouldn't switch.

I've got Libre Office for all my productivity needs. All my Steam games work under Linux. My VPN works just fine. Firefox for web browsing. Thunderbird for email. And Wine to run those 1-2 Windows programs that I just can't do without.

mypasswordis1234 ,
@mypasswordis1234@lemmy.world avatar

You might try OnlyOffice 😄

bluewing ,

Hey, I replace LibreOffice on my Linux installs every time with OnlyOffice. I don't really need a full up office suite anymore. And I find OnlyOffice is a bit simpler and easier to use. But it's not for everybody.

Plus, it keeps me away from trusting Google Docs.......

joe_cool ,

vpn with network manager is amazing. All my client's vpn solutions just work. On windows I needed 5-6 different vpn clients that bluescreen each other on Linux I need zero proprietary software.

Sparkles , to Technology in Microsoft addresses Windows Recall backlash, promises to fix security issues and make it opt-in
@Sparkles@fedia.io avatar

Yeah I don’t know what to do with this. I’m about to start to start wfh and handle a lot of data that cannot be shared and comes with big fines for mishandling. I have to have office, mainly excel. Is Apple my only option? I know Linux exists, but I’m not a power user, I struggle with my printer.

seanziepples ,

Is your company not providing you a computer? It's up to them to manage that risk.

Sparkles ,
@Sparkles@fedia.io avatar

I am going wfh and I have to use their one drive to access client data. They will provide a computer, but versus my home setup it’s simply not worth it. I saw the idea about virtual windows and Linux machine. I’ve never done it but I imagine I can with some trial and error. But I’m wondering if even that is safe.

seanziepples , (edited )

What do you mean it's not worth it? If you use the company's computer it's on them to handle all the liability. If you use your own computer then you're now on the hook. It is 100% worth it to use the company-provided computer.

Sparkles ,
@Sparkles@fedia.io avatar

Basically, they provide a decent Chromebook. It’s nearly impossible given the actual tasks. So I need to find a better way.

seanziepples ,

That's not on you. I would communicate with management and illustrate that you can't do your job without a proper computer. If they refuse to help, get it in writing. You should not be held accountable.

Dra , to Technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back

Buy a mac or support steamOS adoption or just get a linux distro. This will drive the improvement of nontechnical consumer GNU/Linux

trslim ,

I cant believe im actually supporting the sentence "buy a mac" but its far far better than what ever microsoft is doing, and if you arent computer literate enough to install linux, its a decent alternative to windows.

bitwaba ,

Apple is going to start cramming their AI the throat of all users in the next year or two as well.

Just... No.

Suavevillain , to Technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back
@Suavevillain@lemmy.world avatar

Microsoft has done nothing to earn any good will or trust. Everything seems to spite the user or just harvesting maximum user data.

Sibbo , to Technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back
@Sibbo@sopuli.xyz avatar

Do people outside of tech care?

F4U57 ,

They really should

Meowie_Gamer ,
@Meowie_Gamer@lemmy.world avatar

No, unfortunately

secretlyaddictedtolinux , to Technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back

Most male computer uses watch porn and would not want an AI to log that. Many women find porn sickening and don't understand it and will never understand male urges that result in watching it. The fact that this got into a finished product tells you a lot about Microsoft's corporate culture.

No one working there really cares about the company enough to bring up uncomfortable issues, they are all there just to get their paycheck and actual outcomes be damned. The culture their must be toxic for this product to have been put into a product enabled by default.

If this was a top-down decision and there was no input by others into it, it leads to questions over whether this feature was forced to be included by the government, which can easily require corporations to do anything and then issue gag orders and whether it was some sort of test to see how much intrusive spying bullshit that regular consumers will tolerate now. If this was a feature that was forced into the product, the plan may have been to turn it off by default after negative feedback, but then just keep it in the program for when governments want to turn it on. Governments may have realized it in any capacity such a terrible feature would result in outrage and may have thought this was the path of least resistance, like saying "Would you like to eat a bowl of shit? No, okay, we'll just give you these brussel sprouts"

JasSmith ,

Most male computer uses watch porn and would not want an AI to log that. Many women find porn sickening and don’t understand it and will never understand male urges that result in watching it. The fact that this got into a finished product tells you a lot about Microsoft’s corporate culture.

Excellent point. We saw exactly the same phenomenon play out with Google and Gemini. The tool created racially diverse Nazis. Even a few minutes with the tool revealed major issues. There must have been hundreds of people who witnessed the slow moving train crash in realtime, but were either unwilling or unable to speak out. I think these companies have clearly cultivated a hierarchical culture of fear and intimidation. I recently left a job in which my manager was ex-Google. The stories she would tell were appalling. Her command-and-control style was, frankly, disgusting. She permitted zero critical feedback or discussion. It was her way or "fuck off." I found that very instructive as to how these companies have morphed into shells of their formers selves. I'm not bullish on the future of these companies. They're coasting very well on the fumes of their historical successes, and I think their demise is all but assured.

secretlyaddictedtolinux ,

lol, you're the only one who liked my post apparently. everyone else hates it!

Rekorse ,

I dont hate your original post, its just somewhat confusing and disjointed.

Could you expand on your first paragraph? I feel like I'm missing context there especially to connect the first and second sentence.

Also, what is your overall point?

secretlyaddictedtolinux ,

The point of the first two sentences is that because there is a large gender divide on whether porn is acceptable, a lot of times men and women don't discuss porn because the subject will lead to conflict. This isn't true of all members of both genders. Since corporations often have a mix of genders, bringing up the topic of porn and how a feature could alienate porn viewers would be an uncomfortable topic that would be easier to avoid because men and women find the topic uncomfortable often for different reasons. In Microsoft's case, it seems like no one at Microsoft brought up how male porn watchers might not like AI watching their pornhub history and recording it to a file, despite it seeming like it would be an obvious concern to any male at Microsoft who watches porn, and likely many do. These means their corporate culture is so selfish on their own career protection and focused on not offending others that they let a really bad feature that many hate go to market instead of talking openly how this would be a disaster out of fear that it could cause workplace conflict.

So instead of saving millions of dollars in costs and damage to the brand, everyone at Microsoft aware of this problem just said nothing. That's a terrible corporate culture. If a product isn't going to work, even uncomfortable discussions should be had if it saves millions.

My point overall was that it's shocking this made it into the product. It's such a bad idea for a feature on multiple levels, that it seems like employees did not openly talk about this.

My other point was that if Microsoft employees didn't drop the ball, then this feature may have been forced into the project by a government order of some kind, which can and does happen in closed source software. Although hidden backdoors are often secret, the government could equally compel a large unlocked window at the front be added as well.

secretlyaddictedtolinux ,

There needs to be a way to have an inclusive corporate culture that celebrates cultures and backgrounds but also allows brutal honesty about products without people being afraid of accidentally offending others or being too indifferent to the corporation's success to speak up.

A lot of it probably relates to how often people are fired and how short tenures are with companies. If you have a short tenure with a company or are expecting to, does it matter if Company A does well instead of Company B or Company C? It probably doesn't, and with social media capturing one wrong offensive faux paus for eternity (by which I mean until the planet becomes uninhabitable 300 years from now), workers have every incentive to let disasters like this go to market.

I am judging Microsoft employees but likely would have said nothing if I were there too. With all the layoffs in tech, why risk it to say something controversial? Even my initial post on this got down-voted into the depths of an abyss just for mentioning that men and women see pornography in different ways sometimes, which should hardly be controversial. I don't know whether the votes were from men or women, but actually I imagine more women than men down-voted it, and even this guess will probably lead to additional down-votes.

I dislike people like Elon Musk for his cruelty towards transgender people (despite his admirable intelligence), and I dislike Donald Trump for his cruelty towards those who are different in any way, but I also feel like people should be able to have discussions about actual uncomfortable subjects without it being automatically offensive. The fact I was so heavily down-voted immediately tends to illustrate my point.

bluewing , to Technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back

Pfffttt, Microsoft has been there, done this, and got a whole closet full of tee shirts for stuff like this many times over the years. In the end the users don't care and can't stop it. And they are, by in large, too lazy to change to something else to completely avoid it.

It hasn't ever affected the bottom line enough to matter to them. They will just pull this bug feature and wait for a better day. Or perhaps they will figure out a way to introduce it piecemeal to disguise it better.

egeres , to Technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back
@egeres@lemmy.world avatar

I do think that the concept of recall is very interesting, I want to explore a FOSS version where you have complete ownership of your data in a secure manner

JasSmith ,

Yeah the concept is pretty damn cool. It's just horrifying to have a company own and control that data. I suspect this is like Xbox One launch disaster in 2013, in which Microsoft initially required all consoles to have an always-online connection. People rebelled, but today and certainly on our current trajectory, it now looks like Microsoft was just a little ahead of the curve. I think people will eventually become a lot more comfortable with companies owning their data because the benefits will be so enormous. I'm not happy about that future, but I think I understand it.

Hackworth ,

It seems to me that we've reached a crossroads. I've been very aware of the data mining, garden walls, data trading, privacy violations, security issues, ownership issues, etc. - for roughly 30 years. I regularly make the choice to be exploited for the benefits I extract, largely because the data they've gotten from me thus far I don't highly value. But the necessity to develop strategies to keep the devil's bargain beneficial has reached a fevered pitch. I want to train my own AI and public AIs. I want to explore the vast higher dimensional semantic spaces of generative models without API charges. APIs are vanishing as we speak, anyway, companies fearful of their data being extracted without compensation. Can't really sit on the Open/Closed fence anymore.

PsyDoctah9Jah , to Technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back
@PsyDoctah9Jah@lemmy.world avatar

Both Apple and Microsoft are two sides of the same coin....

One went left, the other went right, both going to the same location....

The only thing to consider is how you prefer to travel and how quickly you want to arrive....

freewheel ,

I built a kit car, painted a penguin on the side, and forgot to include the telemetry module. Oops.

I think I'll travel somewhere else.

laurelraven ,

Microsoft and Apple are not the only choices

beefbot , to Technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back

Linux!: Had set It up years ago when it was a slog. Came back recently after Windows did this— and it was so much easier.

Work? Yes. The comfort of knowing I’ve put off for one more day the tech ubergods carving my life open? Also yes.

ProgrammingSocks , to Technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back

Stallman just keeps being right*

*About software freedom

ninekeysdown ,
@ninekeysdown@lemmy.world avatar

lol, yeah that’s an important asterisk for sure!

chemicalwonka , to Technology in Microsoft addresses Windows Recall backlash, promises to fix security issues and make it opt-in
@chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

opt-in until next update when it will be enabled "magically"

xavier666 ,
@xavier666@lemm.ee avatar

Let me tell exactly what will happen.

  • Step 1 - It's opt-in. Everyone chill
  • Step 2 - It's opt-in but the opt-in button is advertised during startup
  • Step 3 - "opting in in crucial for your safety and comfort" advertised everytime during startup
  • Step 4 - it's opt-out now but it can be turned off in settings
  • Step 5 - it's opt-out but the off button is hidden below 3 layers
  • Step 6 - the opt-out button is gone but can be turned off with a registry edit
  • Step 7 - sorry, it's a core component of W11

We are currently at Step 1

This comment is taken from another lemmy post but I forgot the username. Apologies.

iAvicenna ,
@iAvicenna@lemmy.world avatar

If you don't opt in you will miss essential security updates and you will become a terrorist

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