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BCsven , to Canada in Canadian university sues its own students over encampment for Palestine

Wow, univesities are supposed to be thought incubators, not censors

Routhinator ,
@Routhinator@startrek.website avatar

Now they mostly just incubate capitalism and behave like a business.

Aux , to World News in Israeli officers tortured this doctor to death, then hid news of his passing for months

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  • anas ,

    I’m going to go out on a limb and assume that every comment bashing Judaism is a false flag meant to paint pro Palestinians as anti-Semitic. Please stop.

    Aux ,

    Please stop whitewashing a genocide.

    anas ,

    What?

    Linkerbaan OP ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Judaism has nothing to do with Zionism.

    psvrh , to Canada in Canadian university sues its own students over encampment for Palestine
    @psvrh@lemmy.ca avatar

    A liberal is a conservative whose privilege hasn't been challenged yet.

    SpaceNoodle ,

    I think you've got that backwards.

    jerkface ,
    @jerkface@lemmy.ca avatar

    lol cope harder

    Linkerbaan OP ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    This goes hard.

    Franconian_Nomad , to World News in New German citizens required to affirm Israel's right to exist

    Alright, lets wrap that up, shall we.

    After looking at OPs comments and discussing with him it’s clear to me that he posted this article with a clear agenda.

    If Israel’s right to exist is a controversial topic, I‘m out.

    I have the opinion that it’s not antisemitism to call out an evil government and protest against its actions.

    Getting flustered about Germany saying Israel has a right to exist and not understanding historical reasons why that is the case is just naivety I hope.

    IndustryStandard ,

    Instance checks out

    Franconian_Nomad ,

    Sorry, I don’t understand you. What do you mean?

    toastboy79 ,

    They are saying that your answer is indicative of the attitudes prevalent of your home instance. It's a very common fediverse method of attempting to dismiss arguments that someone doesn't agree with but can't otherwise disprove.

    IndustryStandard ,

    Your comment contained an ad-hominem on the comment history of the poster.

    The instance you are posting from makes this ironic in relation to the article.

    yesman ,

    If Israel’s right to exist is a controversial topic, I‘m out.

    Fuck me, they're arguing States rights. Is there a playbook for this atrocity denial or what?

    ralphio ,

    Bit of a double standard though, right? They don't have to affirm Palestinian's right to statehood. If not saying Israel is a legitimate state is anti-semitism, wouldn't that make the same stance toward Palestine islamaphobia?

    Franconian_Nomad ,

    Yes. It’s a Double standard. It was born out of history. Namely the genocide on the Jews by the nationalsocialists.

    Germany doesn’t have a special history with Palestine, so they don’t get mentioned.

    And yes, I think Germany should recognise a
    Palestinian state.

    Linkerbaan , (edited )
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    What does israel have to do with anti-semitsm?

    You keep intentionally conflating Judaism and Zionism after been corrected.

    Furthermore you don't appear to know the history of israel. Zionists had been colonizing Palestine years before Hitler came to power.

    Franconian_Nomad ,

    You got me. I do. I know there is a difference, but in my experience it rarely matters.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    But that's the point. Recognizing israel is absolutely irrelevant to anti-semitism.

    If anything israel using Judaism as a shield for their war crimes is the biggest cause of anti-semitism.

    So this move by the German government does not combat anti-semitism. It creates anti-semitism by specifically calling israel a "Jewish" state.

    Franconian_Nomad ,

    I disagree with you.

    SkyezOpen ,

    It's not illegal to be wrong on the internet, but don't feel compelled to keep doing so.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    You're free to say why

    Mrs_deWinter ,

    Recognizing israel is absolutely irrelevant to anti-semitism.

    Many people in this thread don't seem to know this, but within German neo-Nazi movements that's absolutely wrong. Revoking Israel's right to exist is the number one talking point of the people doing hitler salutes again.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    That's completely false.

    The AfD is full of antisemites. Nonetheless, it fully supports Israel.

    Following Hamas’ October 7th attacks, Alexander Gauland (speaking as the honorary AfD chairman) said “The attack was not only aimed at the Jewish state, it was also aimed at us. Israel is the West in an environment that rejects and fights the West. When we stand with Israel, we are also defending our way of life”. This idea of ‘defending a way of life’ is common anti-immigrant rhetoric, and one the AfD frequently utilises to criticise immigration policy in Germany.

    Mrs_deWinter ,

    The AfD obviously doesn't say the quiet part out loud, they're already on the brink of proceedings to be banned. I'm talking about actual skinheads.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    I know what the AfD is. It symbolizes the situation perfectly. The biggest actual anti-semites are supporters of israel.

    Because israel has nothing to do with Judaism. Israel is just classic white nationalism creating Lebensraum in the Middle East.

    Mrs_deWinter ,

    Sorry, but thats just not true. Read for example what the anti-semitism commissioner in Germany says about it: (translated from German obv)

    Where does criticism of the Israeli government end and where does anti-Semitism begin?

    Criticism of Israeli government policy is not anti-Semitic per se and we Germans can also criticize it - just as Israelis themselves do. The settlement policy in the West Bank, for example, violates international law. It is absolutely possible to criticize this without being accused of anti-Semitism. Criticism becomes anti-Semitic when Israel's right to exist is called into question. Or when Israeli actions are compared to the atrocities committed by the Nazis.

    Do you have an example?

    Criticism of Israeli government action is absolutely legitimate. Anyone who criticizes the settlement policy that violates international law or the course of the protective wall between the West Bank and Israel is not anti-Semitic. But anyone who denies the state of Israel the right to exist and lets loose a slogan like "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" is making an anti-Semitic statement. When Israeli government actions are equated with Nazi crimes and, for example, the Gaza Strip is described as a large concentration camp, then this is also anti-Semitic because it relativizes Nazi crimes and reverses perpetrators and victims.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Criticism of Israeli government policy is not anti-Semitic per se and we Germans can also criticize it

    But anyone who denies the state of Israel the right to exist and lets loose a slogan like “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” is making an anti-Semitic statement.

    Explain what is anti-semitic about saying Nazi white nationalist Apartheid terrorist state israel has no right to exist.

    From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free, by the way.

    Mrs_deWinter ,

    Because it's usually not said about other nations committing crimes against international law. Iran is allowed to exist. Russia is allowed to exist. North Korea is allowed to exist. Heck, Nazi Germany was allowed to exist.

    The right to exist as a nation is such a fundamental idea to international law that I have to wonder how you would argue otherwise without stepping into genocidal territory.

    And it is a bad look, to be completely honest, that of all nations is just so happens to be Israel to be the one country where people have continuously called for their destruction.

    Israels current actions must be condemned, no debate there. And the German government should be louder in their criticism (although I can see why they of all governments have the hardest time doing so). But Israels right to exist has nothing, zero, to do with that.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    This is a false comparison between countries and colonized land.

    Nazi Germany was absolutely not allowed to exist. This is Nazi Germany:

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/fa70a6df-17ae-4653-a694-44729c8a7a63.png

    Note how after Hitler got defeated we did not say "well Germany stole that land fair and square".

    Israel is like Apartheid South Africa. A colonial Apartheid state on other people's land.

    It should be no surprise that israel does not have a right to exist as it suppresses the native Palestinian population to create a white ethnostate. Just like the Apartheid in South Africa, israel should be abolished.

    Mrs_deWinter ,

    I'm not saying Israel should keep occupied land. At all. You're saying we should abolish the state entirely. Sorry, that's borderline genocidal. And not what happened to Nazi Germany either - it was occupied and then basically newly founded. What you imagine for Israel would be closer to a solution where the occupying forces in Germany after 1945, or maybe the surrounding countries, took their share of German territory for good. We wouldn't have a Germany today if that would have been the decision made back then.

    And we wouldn't have Iran, Russia, North Korea, and a whole bunch of other nations with humanitarian violations either, even though you conveniently skipped that point.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    All of Israel is occupied land so you are advocating to dismantle israel.

    theacharnian ,

    This is Germany's "special history" with the Palestinians being created right now. This. This supporting and enabling their genocide.

    avidamoeba , to Canada in Canadian university sues its own students over encampment for Palestine
    @avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

    Not a good look UWaterloo..

    Franconian_Nomad , to World News in New German citizens required to affirm Israel's right to exist

    Seems to be a good way to filter out antisemitism.

    floofloof ,

    What if the antisemites... lie?

    Franconian_Nomad ,

    True. I think it’s more symbolic.

    However what I found out discussing with actual nazis: they don’t really like lying about something which is a core identity of them. They like to weasel around it, but hate saying something like: „all human life is equal.“

    ad_on_is OP , (edited )
    @ad_on_is@lemmy.world avatar

    yeah sure.. antisemites come from other countries to Germany. It's not like Germany had any history with antisemitism. Just imagine a universe, where Germany killed people, just because they were jewish. Unimaginable! Right?

    Franconian_Nomad ,

    I think Germany has indeed a deep rooting problem with antisemitism. After all the time that’s concerning.

    But no reason letting more into the county, don’t you think?

    ad_on_is OP ,
    @ad_on_is@lemmy.world avatar

    You know, the Nazis did not only kill Jews, they killed Muslims, Gypsies and homosexuals as well.

    So what about them? why not ask if they recognize non-binary genders as well? why not put basic questions about Islam as well on the sheet?

    Franconian_Nomad ,

    Yes. And you have point. But Jews were the main enemy and scapegoat of the nazis. That’s just a historical fact.

    barsoap ,

    Forget specifics just test for psychological patterns supporting pauschalisierende Ablehnungskonstruktionen. Which run counter to human dignity anyway so in principle, no change in law is needed.

    ...it also has fuckall to do with states, though. States don't have human rights.

    Aceticon ,

    The anti-semites are probably ecstatic at the whole linking of a nation that commits Genocide and kills little children with snipers, bombs and starvation to the entire Jewish ethnicity.

    It makes it incredibly easy for them to grab some particularly nasty action of the state of Israel as an example and say "See, that's how Jews are like".

    Non-Jews going around telling other people, including Jews, that people who mass murder civilians, including very purposefully children, journalists and medical personnel, represent the Jewsih Religion and hence implying those actions are Jewishness, is the most antisemitic thing around.

    rqg4rrpoz2 , to World News in Israeli officers tortured this doctor to death, then hid news of his passing for months

    At the start of the Israeli war on Gaza

    1948?

    sunzu ,

    It started before that tho

    Seigest , to Canada in Canadian university sues its own students over encampment for Palestine
    @Seigest@lemmy.ca avatar

    The Ezra street parties that cost the city thousands are totally fine. but they freak out over a few tents. The only reason this school is around is that it's a feeder school to a lot of local tech companies that want fresh meat to grind.

    owenfromcanada ,
    @owenfromcanada@lemmy.world avatar

    It also gets a lot of research money. As a UW grad, I can confirm that the students are the absolute lowest priority though. If you're not in a research-focused post grad program, you're seen as a chore.

    Luci ,
    @Luci@lemmy.ca avatar

    People outside of KW might not be aware of how much these parties sucked for everyone. The universities did nothing about them

    jerkface , to Canada in Canadian university sues its own students over encampment for Palestine
    @jerkface@lemmy.ca avatar

    UW administration hates its students.

    rozodru ,

    always has. If you're not researching or willing to be a feed to some tech company then you're not much good to that place.

    Bookmeat , to Canada in Canadian university sues its own students over encampment for Palestine

    Shame.

    adespoton , to Canada in Canadian university sues its own students over encampment for Palestine

    Has UW never met Barbara Streisand before?

    rozodru , (edited ) to Canada in Canadian university sues its own students over encampment for Palestine

    has damaged the school’s reputation

    yeah that was damaged well before this encampment but ok.

    driven up administrative and operational costs for the university and depreciated the university’s property values.

    Or "We're the UofW, we've never cared about students or what they believe in...like never. IF they refuse to be fed to the grinder of a US tech company or refuse to be a research zombie then we couldn't give two shits about them. We spend what little we can on facilities here and have done so for....well forever, I mean really have you ever been to Dana Porter Library? and we said the quiet thing out loud with property value cause....yeah. Fuck the students and fuck Waterloo and especially fuck those peasants living in Kitchener...just ew."

    Linkerbaan OP , to World News in Israeli officers tortured this doctor to death, then hid news of his passing for months
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    This doctor was tortured to death by israel near the start of the Genocide to make false confessions about Khamaspitals.

    STUPIDVIPGUY , to World News in New German citizens required to affirm Israel's right to exist

    Wow, so all the jews have to do is start genociding, and all of a sudden Germany realizes, 'hey these guys aren't so bad after all!'

    holycrap ,

    It's not the jews. It's zionists who would love to make those synonymous.

    Enkrod ,

    Man, I hate this "ThE jEwS" crap... Zionist Israel is not "the Jews" and equating them is actually quite antisemitic.

    qevlarr , to World News in New German citizens required to affirm Israel's right to exist
    @qevlarr@lemmy.world avatar

    What are the actual questions?

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