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kilgore_trout , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?
@kilgore_trout@feddit.it avatar

Bad photographers complaining to be called out as bad photographers.

Thorny_Insight ,

I don't think that's fair. AI wont turn a bad photograph into a good one. It's a tool that quickly and automatically does something we've been doing by hand untill now. That's kind of like saying a photoshopped picture isn't "good" or "real". They're all photoshopped. Not a single serious photographer releases unedited photos except perhaps the ones shooting on film.

Zelaf ,

Even finns photographers touch up their photos, either during development by adjusting how long they sit in one or the chemical processes or by using different methods of shaking/mixing processes and techniques.

If they enlarge their negatives on photo paper they often have tools to add lightness and darkness to different areas of the paper to help with exposure, contrast and subject highlighting. AKA. Dodging and burning which is also available in most photo editing software today.

There are loads of things to do to improve developed photos and been something that has always been something that photographers/developers do. People who still go with the "Don't edit photos" BS are usually not very well informed about photo history and techniques of their photography inspirations.

Uncaged_Jay , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

I saw this coming from a mile away. We will now have to set standards for what's considered "made by AI" and "Made with AI"

hperrin , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

The label is accurate. Quit using AI if you don’t want your images labeled as such.

PhlubbaDubba , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

I agree pretty heartily with this metadata signing approach to sussing out AI content,

Create a cert org that verifies that a given piece of creative software properly signs work made with their tools, get eyeballs on the cert so consumers know to look for it, watch and laugh while everyone who can't get thr cert starts trying to claim they're being censored because nobody trusts any of their shit anymore.

Bonus points if you can get the largest social media companies to only accept content that has the signing and have it flag when signs indicate photoshopping or AI work, or removal of another artist's watermark.

Schmeckinger ,

That simply won't work, since you could just use a tool to recreate a Ai image 1:1, or extract the signing code and sign whatever you want.

PhlubbaDubba ,

There are ways to secure signatures to be a problem to recreate, not to mention how the signature can be unique to every piece of media made, meaning a fake can't be created reliably.

Schmeckinger ,

How are you gonna prevent recreating a Ai image pixel by pixel or just importing a Ai image/taking a photo of one.

PhlubbaDubba , (edited )

Importing and screen capping software can also have the certificate software on and sign it with the metadata of the original file they're copying, taking a picture of the screen with a separate device or pixel by pixel recreations could in theory get around it, but in practice, people will see at best a camera image being presented as a photoshopped or paintmade image, and at worst, some loser pointing their phone at their laptop to try and pass off something dishonestly. Pixel by pixel recreations, again, software can be given the metadata stamp, and if sites refuse to accept non stamped content, going pixel by pixel on unvetted software will just leave you with a neat png file for your trouble, and doing it manually, yeah if someone's going through and hand placing squares just to slip a single deep fake picture through, that person's a state actor and that's a whole other can of worms.

ETA: you can also sign the pixel art creation as pixel art based on it being a creation of squares, so that would tip people off in the signature notes of a post.

Feathercrown ,

The opposite way could work, though. A label that guarantees the image isn't [created with AI / digitally edited in specific areas / overall digitally adjusted / edited at all]. I wonder if that's cryptographically viable? Of course it would have to start at the camera itself to work properly.

Trainguyrom ,

Signing the photo on the camera would achieve this, but ultimately that's just rehashing the debate back when this Photoshop thing was new. History shows us that some will fight it but ultimately new artistic tools will create new artistic styles and niches

parody OP ,

I imagine we’ll need specialized hardware in the future.

The president allegedly made a gaffe on film? Let’s see that chain of custody, that raw file hash on the Canon/RED/Sony servers…

Ooh, something to this end was released in 2022!

https://lemmings.world/pictrs/image/afc3ddf7-bdc9-48a3-bd2c-a96c9495cb72.jpeg

Feathercrown ,

Ah I knew I'd seen it somewhere!

A_Very_Big_Fan , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

We've been able to do this for years, way before the fill tool utilized AI. I don't see why it should be slapped with a label that makes it sound like the whole image was generated by AI.

magnetosphere , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?
@magnetosphere@fedia.io avatar

That person who makes the peanut analogy needs a slap in the head.

WolfLink ,

It’s exaggerated but it gets the point across: I too would like to know if AI tools were used to make even part of the image.

There’s a reason any editing is banned from many photography contests.

If they want to make a distinction between “made using AI” and “entirely AI generated”, sure. But “made using AI” completely accurately describes an image that used AI to generate parts of the image that were inconvenient in the original photo.

harrys_balzac , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

Why many word when few good?

Seriously though, "AI" itself is misleading but if they want to be ignorant and whiny about it, then they should be labeled just as they are.

What they really seem to want is an automatic metadata tag that is more along the lines of "a human took this picture and then used 'AI' tools to modify it."

That may not work because by using Adobe products, the original metadata is being overwritten so Thotagram doesn't know that a photographer took the original.

A photographer could actually just type a little explanation ("I took this picture and then used Gen Fill only") in a plain text document, save it to their desktop, and copy & paste it in.

But then everyone would know that the image had been modified - which is what they're trying to avoid. They want everyone to believe that the picture they're posting is 100% their work.

IIII , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

Can't wait for people to deliberately add the metadata to their image as a meme, such that a legit photograph without any AI used gets the unremovable made with ai tag

piecat ,

Generative fill on a dummy layer, then apply 0% opacity

Thorny_Insight , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

But they did use AI..

BigPotato ,

Right? I thought I went crazy when I got to "I just used Generative Fill!" Like, he didn't just auto adjust the exposure and black levels! C'mon!

Shayeta , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

Hahahaha, we've come full circle!

Hawke , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

Better title: “Photographers complain when their use of AI is identified as such”

Valmond ,

"It was just a so little itsy bitsy teeny weeny AI edit!!"

Please don't flag AI please!

CabbageRelish ,

People are complaining that an advanced fill tool that’s mostly used to remove a smudge or something is automatically marking a full image as an AI creation. As-is if someone actually wants to bypass this “check” all they have to do is strip the image’s metadata before uploading it.

conciselyverbose , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

This isn't really Facebook. This is Adobe not drawing a distinction between smart pattern recognition for backgrounds/textures and real image generation of primary content.

bjoern_tantau , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

I think every touch up besides color correction and cropping should be labeled as "photoshopped". And any usage of AI should be labeled as "Made with AI" because it cannot show which parts are real and which are not.

Besides, this is totally a skill issue. Removing this metadata is trivial.

JusticeForPorygon ,
@JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world avatar

Agreed. Photo editing has great applications but we can't pretend it's never used maliciously.

disguy_ovahea ,

Some of the more advanced color correction tools can drastically change an image. There’s a lot of gray in that line as well.

BigPotato ,

DOD Imagery guidelines state that only color correction can be applied to "make the image appear the same as it was when it was captured" otherwise it must be labeled "DOD illustration" instead of "DOD Imagery"

Blue_Morpho ,

Cropping can completely change the context of a photo.

IIII ,

Sure
But you could also achieve a similar effect in-camera by zooming in or moving closer to the subject

hperrin ,

A lot of photographers will take a photo with the intention of cropping it. Cropping isn’t photoshopping.

Daxtron2 ,

Image manipulation is still image manipulation

lord_ryvan ,

If I open an image in Photoshop and crop it, it's photoshopping.

hperrin ,

You don’t have to open photoshop to do it. Any basic editing software will include a cropping tool.

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

🤦‍♂️

hperrin , (edited )

There are absolutely different levels of image editing. Color correction, cropping, scale, and rotation are basic enough that I would say they don’t even count as alterations. They’re just correcting what the camera didn’t, and often available in the camera's built in software. (Fun fact, what the sensor sees is not what it presents you in a jpeg.) Then there are more deceptive levels of editing, like removing or adding objects, altering someone’s appearance, swapping faces from different shots. Those are definitely image alterations, and what most people mean when they say an image is “photoshopped” (and you know that, don’t lie). Then there’s AI, where you’re just generating new information to put into the image. That’s extreme image alteration.

These all can be done with or without any sort of nefarious intent.

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

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  • hperrin ,

    I literally described to you what people mean by “photoshopping” in the comment you’re responding to. Can you really not tell that I know that? Also, dropping the r slur will definitely help get your point across, right? You’re really living up to your username.

    ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

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  • lord_ryvan ,

    So we agree cropping is plain and simple image editing, yes?

    hperrin ,

    Yes. I think the question was should it be labeled as “photoshopped” (or probably “manipulated”). I don’t think it should. I think those labels would be meaningless if you can’t event change the aspect ratio of a photo without it being called “photoshopped”.

    piecat ,

    Film too, any trickery in the darkroom should be labeled because it cannot show which parts are real and which are not.

    A_Very_Big_Fan ,

    What do you mean by real

    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    Why label it if it is trivial to avoid the label?

    Doesn't that mean that bad actors will have additional cover for misise of AI?

    bjoern_tantau ,
    @bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

    Yes

    WatDabney , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

    No - I don't agree that they're completely different.

    "Made by AI" would be completely different.

    "Made with AI" actually means pretty much the exact same thing as "AI was used in this image" - it's just that the former lays it out baldly and the latter softens the impact by using indirect language.

    I can certainly see how "photographers" who use AI in their images would tend to prefer the latter, but bluntly, fuck 'em. If they can't handle the shame of the fact that they did so they should stop doing it - get up off their asses and invest some time and effort into doing it all themselves. And if they can't manage that, they should stop pretending to be artists.

    Paradachshund ,

    I think it is a bit of an unclear wording personally. "Made with", despite technically meaning what you're saying, is often colloquially used to mean "fully created by". I don't mind the AI tag, but I do see the photographers point about it implying wholesale generation instead of touchups.

    glimse , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

    This would be more suited for asklemmy, this community isn't for opinion discussions

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