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bjoern_tantau , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

I think every touch up besides color correction and cropping should be labeled as "photoshopped". And any usage of AI should be labeled as "Made with AI" because it cannot show which parts are real and which are not.

Besides, this is totally a skill issue. Removing this metadata is trivial.

JusticeForPorygon ,
@JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world avatar

Agreed. Photo editing has great applications but we can't pretend it's never used maliciously.

disguy_ovahea ,

Some of the more advanced color correction tools can drastically change an image. There’s a lot of gray in that line as well.

BigPotato ,

DOD Imagery guidelines state that only color correction can be applied to "make the image appear the same as it was when it was captured" otherwise it must be labeled "DOD illustration" instead of "DOD Imagery"

Blue_Morpho ,

Cropping can completely change the context of a photo.

IIII ,

Sure
But you could also achieve a similar effect in-camera by zooming in or moving closer to the subject

hperrin ,

A lot of photographers will take a photo with the intention of cropping it. Cropping isn’t photoshopping.

Daxtron2 ,

Image manipulation is still image manipulation

lord_ryvan ,

If I open an image in Photoshop and crop it, it's photoshopping.

hperrin ,

You don’t have to open photoshop to do it. Any basic editing software will include a cropping tool.

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

🤦‍♂️

hperrin , (edited )

There are absolutely different levels of image editing. Color correction, cropping, scale, and rotation are basic enough that I would say they don’t even count as alterations. They’re just correcting what the camera didn’t, and often available in the camera's built in software. (Fun fact, what the sensor sees is not what it presents you in a jpeg.) Then there are more deceptive levels of editing, like removing or adding objects, altering someone’s appearance, swapping faces from different shots. Those are definitely image alterations, and what most people mean when they say an image is “photoshopped” (and you know that, don’t lie). Then there’s AI, where you’re just generating new information to put into the image. That’s extreme image alteration.

These all can be done with or without any sort of nefarious intent.

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

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  • hperrin ,

    I literally described to you what people mean by “photoshopping” in the comment you’re responding to. Can you really not tell that I know that? Also, dropping the r slur will definitely help get your point across, right? You’re really living up to your username.

    ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

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  • lord_ryvan ,

    So we agree cropping is plain and simple image editing, yes?

    hperrin ,

    Yes. I think the question was should it be labeled as “photoshopped” (or probably “manipulated”). I don’t think it should. I think those labels would be meaningless if you can’t event change the aspect ratio of a photo without it being called “photoshopped”.

    piecat ,

    Film too, any trickery in the darkroom should be labeled because it cannot show which parts are real and which are not.

    A_Very_Big_Fan ,

    What do you mean by real

    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    Why label it if it is trivial to avoid the label?

    Doesn't that mean that bad actors will have additional cover for misise of AI?

    bjoern_tantau ,
    @bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

    Yes

    Hawke , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

    Better title: “Photographers complain when their use of AI is identified as such”

    Valmond ,

    "It was just a so little itsy bitsy teeny weeny AI edit!!"

    Please don't flag AI please!

    CabbageRelish ,

    People are complaining that an advanced fill tool that’s mostly used to remove a smudge or something is automatically marking a full image as an AI creation. As-is if someone actually wants to bypass this “check” all they have to do is strip the image’s metadata before uploading it.

    Thorny_Insight , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

    But they did use AI..

    BigPotato ,

    Right? I thought I went crazy when I got to "I just used Generative Fill!" Like, he didn't just auto adjust the exposure and black levels! C'mon!

    skullgiver , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?
    @skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

    Looks like people are finally finding out they've been using AI all along.

    Seems to me that employing the use of AI to alter an image should be labeled as "made with AI". It's not made by AI, AI was merely one of the tools used.

    If you don't like admitting you used AI, just strip the metadata, I guess. This feels like something you should be able to turn off in your editor's settings, but I guess Adobe hasn't implemented that.

    This comment was made with AI, as my phone's keyboard uses AI to automatically complete words, in a process strikingly similar to how ChatGPT works.

    thedirtyknapkin ,

    yeah, i use Lightroom ai de-noise all the time now. it's just a better version of a tool that already existed. and once that every phone does by default anyway.

    Trainguyrom ,

    And I use AI to determine the right brightness level for my phone screen (that was a feature added several android versions ago)

    Sensitivezombie ,

    I totally agree with a streamlined identification of images generated by an AI prompt. But, to label an image with "made with AI" metadata when the image is original, taken by a human, and simply used AI tools to edit is absolutely misleading and the language can create confusion. It is not fair to the individual who has created the original work without the use if generative AI. I simply propose revising the language to create distinction.

    skullgiver ,
    @skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

    The edits are what makes it made with AI. The original work obviously isn't.

    If you're in-painting areas of an image with generative AI ("context aware" fill), you've used AI to create an image.

    People are coming up with rather arbitrary distinctions between what is and isn't AI. Midjourney's output is clearly AI, and a drawing obviously isn't, but neither is very post-worthy. Things quickly get muddy when you start editing.

    The people upset over this have been using AI for years and nobody cared. Now photographers are at risk of being replaced by an advanced version of the context aware fill they've been using themselves. This puts them in the difficult spot of wanting not to be replaced by AI (obviously) but also not wanting to have their AI use be detectable.

    The debate isn't new; photo editors had this problem years ago when computers started replacing manual editing, artists had this problem when computer aided drawing (drawing tablets and such) started becoming affordable, and this is just the next step of the process.

    Personally, I would love it if this feature would also be extended to "manual" editing. Add a nice little "this image has been altered" marker on any edited photographs, and call out any filters used to beautify selfies while we're at it.

    I don't think the problem is that AI edited images are being marked, the problem AI that AI generated pictures and manually edited pictures aren't.

    Cryophilia ,

    Where I live, is very difficult to get permits to knock down an old building and build a new one. So, builders will "renovate" by knocking down everything but a single wall and then building a new structure around it.

    I can imagine people using that to get around the "made with ai" label. I just touched it up!

    parody OP ,

    It’s like they’re ignoring the pixel I captured in the bottom left!

    Really interesting analogy.

    Also I imagine most anybody who gets a photo labeled will find a trick before making their next post. Copy the final image to a new PSD… print and scan for the less technically inclined… heh

    Schmeckinger ,

    I mean you can just remove the metadata of any image, so that doesn't really matter.

    deafboy ,
    @deafboy@lemmy.world avatar

    simply used AI tools

    Therefor, made with AI.

    Sensitivezombie ,

    Or generated with AI like midjourney, therefore, made with AI.

    There a huge difference between the two, yet, no clear distinction when all lumped into the label of "made with AI"

    kromem , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

    Artists in 2023: "There should be labels on AI modified art!!"

    Artists in 2024: "Wait, not like that..."

    lord_ryvan ,

    I feel like these are two completely different sets of artists.

    thedirtyknapkin ,

    no, they just replaced the normal tools with ai-enhanced versions and are labeling everything like that now.

    ai noise reduction should not get this tag.

    lord_ryvan ,

    I don't know where you got they from, but this post literally talks about tools such as the gen fill (select a region, type what you want in it, AI image generation makes it and places it in)

    hperrin , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

    The label is accurate. Quit using AI if you don’t want your images labeled as such.

    WatDabney , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

    No - I don't agree that they're completely different.

    "Made by AI" would be completely different.

    "Made with AI" actually means pretty much the exact same thing as "AI was used in this image" - it's just that the former lays it out baldly and the latter softens the impact by using indirect language.

    I can certainly see how "photographers" who use AI in their images would tend to prefer the latter, but bluntly, fuck 'em. If they can't handle the shame of the fact that they did so they should stop doing it - get up off their asses and invest some time and effort into doing it all themselves. And if they can't manage that, they should stop pretending to be artists.

    Paradachshund ,

    I think it is a bit of an unclear wording personally. "Made with", despite technically meaning what you're saying, is often colloquially used to mean "fully created by". I don't mind the AI tag, but I do see the photographers point about it implying wholesale generation instead of touchups.

    pyre , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

    or... don't use generative fill. if all you did was remove something, regular methods do more than enough. with generative fill you can just select a part and say now add a polar bear. there's no way of knowing how much has changed.

    thedirtyknapkin ,

    there's a lot more than generative fill.

    ai denoise, ai masking, ai image recognition and sorting.

    hell, every phone is using some kind of "ai enhanced" noise reduction by default these days. these are just better versions of existing tools than have been used for decades.

    pyre ,

    the post says gen fill

    IIII , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

    Can't wait for people to deliberately add the metadata to their image as a meme, such that a legit photograph without any AI used gets the unremovable made with ai tag

    piecat ,

    Generative fill on a dummy layer, then apply 0% opacity

    glimse , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

    This would be more suited for asklemmy, this community isn't for opinion discussions

    caulkandbawls , to cats in Murphy (20ish) doesn't know he's geriatric.

    He's a fluffy menace!

    cheesymoonshadow OP ,
    @cheesymoonshadow@lemmings.world avatar

    That he is! He's a constant source of fluff despite the almost-daily brushing.

    istdaslol , to Piracy: ꜱᴀɪʟ ᴛʜᴇ ʜɪɢʜ ꜱᴇᴀꜱ in Why do some peers have unusual client names

    It’s because some chars aren’t decoded properly. &amp should be rendered as just &. Hinting that more than this is not properly rendered

    Cqrd ,

    To add to this,

    >
    

    is >

    hondacivic , (edited )
    @hondacivic@lem.sabross.xyz avatar

    https://lem.sabross.xyz/pictrs/image/d1f411e3-41b9-4670-87da-306984c6ff2b.png

    ?

    edit: my client renders it as the actual character, even though it's in a code block.

    mexicancartel , (edited )

    Wow so can I use > to get this?

    Edit:yes

    hondacivic , (edited )
    @hondacivic@lem.sabross.xyz avatar

    I got a notification when you responded and it was ">" but it renders correctly once I open the post.

    edit fucking hell it did it even in quotes, I meant >

    had to use a greek question mark so it doesn't render

    mexicancartel ,

    Correctly or wrongly? yours renders ampersand gt semocolon as > only in code block and not in my sentence?

    hondacivic , (edited )
    @hondacivic@lem.sabross.xyz avatar

    https://lem.sabross.xyz/pictrs/image/bd0731d5-adb8-4313-93e5-7abc9737168c.png

    "wrongly" if in a code block for sure

    I use Sync for lemmy, it's a mess but it's the app that's the closest to Joey for me. They charge 30$ to remove ads or 135$(lifetime, it's like 3$ monthly) to be able to import/export communities lmao

    mexicancartel , (edited )

    Lmao. But quotes won't change anything i guess. But monospace should do or you maybe able to escape the characters with backslash \

    Lemme try >

    Edit : yeah this works for me.

    hondacivic ,
    @hondacivic@lem.sabross.xyz avatar

    doesn't for me. definitely a client issue. these little quirks are what keeps programmers up at night.

    mexicancartel ,

    Again i'm having abiguity with works. I mean it shows as ampersand gt semicolon and not a single symbol for me. Are you reffering the same? Is it showing a single > symbol for you?

    hondacivic , (edited )
    @hondacivic@lem.sabross.xyz avatar

    yup. sync seems to parse it and take any & code and renders it as the actual character. lets lest it.

     " µ ´ ₫ & > <
    

    edit: https://lem.sabross.xyz/pictrs/image/133aea90-a67a-4d83-99d3-d386cab5bbb0.png

    i'm even more confused now

    mexicancartel ,

    Lol

    decivex , (edited )

    You can also use & to get &.

    Edit: Fuck, I meant &

    Edit 2: &

    Okay nevermind, either lemmy or sync resolves html entities recursively apparently.

    Edit 3: &

    hondacivic , (edited )
    @hondacivic@lem.sabross.xyz avatar

    finally someone who understands the pain

    lemmy doesn't resolve html entities if put in a code block but sync does

    Thavron , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?
    @Thavron@lemmy.ca avatar

    That's the difference between "by" and "with".

    RippleEffect ,

    People have a hard time with nuance.

    harrys_balzac , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

    Why many word when few good?

    Seriously though, "AI" itself is misleading but if they want to be ignorant and whiny about it, then they should be labeled just as they are.

    What they really seem to want is an automatic metadata tag that is more along the lines of "a human took this picture and then used 'AI' tools to modify it."

    That may not work because by using Adobe products, the original metadata is being overwritten so Thotagram doesn't know that a photographer took the original.

    A photographer could actually just type a little explanation ("I took this picture and then used Gen Fill only") in a plain text document, save it to their desktop, and copy & paste it in.

    But then everyone would know that the image had been modified - which is what they're trying to avoid. They want everyone to believe that the picture they're posting is 100% their work.

    A_Very_Big_Fan , to No Stupid Questions in Photographers Push Back on Facebook's 'Made with AI' Labels Triggered by Adobe Metadata. Do you agree “‘AI was used in this image’ is completely different than ‘Made with AI’”?

    We've been able to do this for years, way before the fill tool utilized AI. I don't see why it should be slapped with a label that makes it sound like the whole image was generated by AI.

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