insideevs.com

Fridgeratr , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry

Maybe make affordable cars here then??
Dumbasses

ShaggySnacks ,

Profit line must always go brrrrr!

I_am_10_squirrels ,

I want to know how much the price of a car would come down if I didn't need to visit a salesperson working on commission. I want to go to Costco, test drive it to make sure I like it, and check out.

Randelung ,

Right?? Cheap is the wrong word.

MeetInPotatoes ,

Oh, apologies my good Lemming but you're mistaken. We make affordable ones here but the auto companies decided they'd make more money if they artificially keep supply low to keep prices high. Car Graveyards

eyy ,

Next you'll be seeing bs gaslighting articles saying "American carmakers are being driven to bankruptcy thanks to millenials' changing preferences"

Jimmycakes , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry

Everyone is broke as fuck we are open to cheap everything. People are living in literal sheds

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

I wish I could afford a shed.

billgamesh ,

it's like you've never heard of roommates. If you get a third job and find a couple people, i'm sure you could afford to rent a shed

Jimmycakes ,

Just stop spending so much money on food. Sheds will feel bigger if you are starving to death

htrayl ,

No, most of us are broke because we insist on ensuring that suburban mcmansions are the only places to really live. When you spend 30% on driving and 40% on housing, suddenly you are broke.

Blisterexe ,
@Blisterexe@lemmy.zip avatar

Yeah that's what I don't get, people complain housing is unnafordable now, but their expectation for a house is way higher than previous generations, and squander their money on "necessities" that really aren't that. Yes, the housing market IS fucked, but by less than people make it seem like

KingThrillgore , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

The industry should meet the needs of the consumer, not the shareholder.

FenrirIII ,
@FenrirIII@lemmy.world avatar

But that's not the American way

billgamesh ,

Capitalism creates monopoly. The consumer's needs can be manufactured. In a society organized around capital shareholder needs are paramount.

Aurenkin , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry

Yes I think that's the part where you have to, you know, compete or whatever.

KnitWit ,

They’ll just ban them from being imported. Far cheaper to pay off some politicians than it is to compete or whatever. Kinda like the tariffs on the solar panels ‘flooding the market’ they just announced.

workerONE ,

It's difficult to compete with Chinese companies that operate at a loss and are subsidized by the Chinese government.

HakFoo ,

Why can't we subsidize American carmakers more?

RenegadeTwister ,

Why would we?

honey_im_meat_grinding ,

Subsidies are an incredible tool when used well, like when they funded a bunch of utility cooperatives that electrified rural US. Maybe you're asking why we should because propping up the car industry when public transit and bike infrastructure should be subsidized instead, rather than challenging subsidies, though.

RenegadeTwister ,

Yeah, I meant specifically for the car industry, given the rampant price gouging they're obviously doing. They've clearly demonstrated any amount of profit they get will simply go right into the C suite and shareholder's pockets rather than innovation.

CaptObvious ,

We do. They just send the windfall to exec salary and shareholders rather than to tax paying customers.

TowardsTheFuture ,

Fucking lol. Good thing we don’t subsidize ANYTHING AT ALL and never export anything either. Boy. You’d have to be EVIL to want your country to have AFFORDABLE CARS. What’s next, AFFORDABLE HOUSING?

mriguy ,

“We hear you, American consumer! You say you want a sub-$40k, small, basic EV. So here’s another luxury SUV/pickup truck/yacht crossover starting at $90,000.”

huquad ,

You have to be capitalistic, no not like that!

bastonia ,

Nooooo, you have to buy local, get our new Chevro-laid Mountain Dew 16x16 for only 250k (Tips not included)

huquad , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry

Auto industry looking at their overly inflated prices, "well well well, if it isn't the consequences of my actions."

chemical_cutthroat , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry
@chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world avatar

Don't cram touchscreens and smart features into every fucking aspect of your car. Keep your costs low, keep prices low, and believe it or not, you'll tap into the "bottom" 60% of the market that has been forced to buy used for the last 10 years. I don't want a base trim 10 year old Honda Accord with 150k miles, but it's all I can find for under $20k.

themeatbridge ,

Touchscreens and "smart" features don't add enough cost to justify the premium you pay for them.

zurohki ,

This. Removing the $200 Android tablet from the dash isn't going to make cars suddenly $5,000 cheaper.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

but they love charging 5k for it though.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I keep getting shit on for wanting an EV with manual roll-up windows where you have to use your hands, a super basic FM stereo kit, and a dash clock being the most advanced shit inside. I don't need rear-view cameras and sensors and other shit that complicates and increases repair and insurance costs. I don't get it. Give me dead simple, please and thank you.

ltxrtquq ,

Back up cameras are mandatory in the US, and apparently Automatic Emergency Braking will be mandatory starting in 2029, so you'll be stuck with some sensors whether you like it or not.

But otherwise I agree that buttons and dials are better for controlling AC and radio than a touchscreen ever will be.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yeesh. I'm still driving a vehicle from 1999. Guess I'm out of the loop on the backup camera thing.

CaptObvious ,

Backup cameras are useless for many people. I can either wear glasses so that I can see where I’m driving, or I can take them off to see the fisheyed backup screen. Not both.

TowardsTheFuture ,

Good thing glasses are permanently superglued to your face and thus it’s impossible to swap between having them on and off when swapping between going backwards and forwards…

lmorchard ,
@lmorchard@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

That's not a reasonable thing to expect to have to do while driving. Sounds like the "you're holding it wrong" of cars

CaptObvious ,

Except for those of us who, you know, like to see where we're going rather than relying on a limited FOV camera. Of course, if I could learn to remove and replace them while keeping both hands engaged in actually, you know, steering the damn car, that'd be great.

TowardsTheFuture ,

I better have both hands on the wheel for all those times I’m mid turn and shift while still moving into reverse……

It’s… for when you’re backing up. You’ve come to a complete stop. You’re going to stop before you start moving forward again. It’s not hard to tilt glasses onto the top of your head while you stop or flip them back down when you stop.

A MUCH bigger issue would be the rear view mirrors which are just cameras and screens.

Are you mixing the two up?

CaptObvious ,

No.

SqueakyBeaver ,
@SqueakyBeaver@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Backup cameras are pretty good imo because they let you see the small things you wouldn't be able to see out of a mirror. Helps prevent needless accidents.
If you don't wanna use it, just don't look at it. Most cars should still have rear view mirrors

desktop_user ,

the backup camera is useful when the rear window is obstructed (such as from mud/dust) and for comically large vehicles where a short pole wouldn't be visible if it was less than 3ft behind it.

Hugh_Jeggs ,

Wut? I bought a brand new car for €11k three years ago. Right enough the same car is 15k now but still

jubilationtcornpone ,

Touch screens in cars are a massive safety issue. I'm not saying they don't have some benefits but the fact that many newer cars have basically no physical buttons to perform basic functions is a problem. I can feel for the dial to adjust the volume or change the radio station. But a touch screen encourages the driver to take their focus off the road. That's a serious problem.

vodkasolution , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry
@vodkasolution@feddit.it avatar

80s: You wouldn't buy a Japanese car!
90s: you wouldn't buy a Korean car!
00s: you wouldn't buy a small Italian car!
....

PraiseTheSoup ,

I'd still never buy an Italian car of any size. Not then and not now.

vodkasolution ,
@vodkasolution@feddit.it avatar

It's not the country of origin, it's the brand that matters

twei ,

I'd buy a Revuelto in an instant, I'm just lacking the ~600k to do so

azimir , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry

There's all kinds of wacky taxes, regulations, and barriers to prevent the US industry from having to compete with the world. One such example is the Chicken Tax:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/chicken-tax.asp

That one keeps the Toyota Hilux out of the US.

Midnitte ,

This.

If automakers were truly scared, Ford wouldn't be scaling back it's EV plans.

kent_eh , (edited )

The world doesn't need an EV Mustang or $99K F150, it needs an EV Focus or Escort oor Fiesta level car that normal people can afford.

Midnitte ,

Which we won't get with Ford deciding instead to focus on hybrids.

Instead, the Blue Oval wants to focus on making more hybrids instead and says it will have hybrid options for all its internal combustion engine-powered vehicles by 2030.

Also, apparently, people quite like the EV Mustang.

But with Mustang Mach-E sales up 77 percent to 9,589 sold, and a 148 percent growth for the E-Transit, Ford is the country's second-bestselling EV brand.

RGB3x3 ,

Toyota Hilux: the middle-east terrorist's truck of choice.

But seriously, those things are everywhere in the Middle East and Africa.

maynarkh ,

I guess you need a cheap, reliable, relatively high performance truck with good off-road capabilities with a large bed to mount weaponry on.

What else would they use?

jubilationtcornpone ,

Half your fleet experiencing engine failure around 110,000 miles really puts a wrinkle in the jihad so I guess that rules out Chevrolet.

thejml ,

Does that account for the fact that most US Tacoma’s are built in San Antonio (there’s also a plant in Tijuana) and the Tundra is also built at the San Antonio plant?

The tundra, F-150 and Honda Ridge line are all tied at 75% domestic US parts production. The Tacoma’s is a bit lower at 70%.

SnotFlickerman , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I mean fuck, if only we could get shit like kei trucks.

Some of us have been open to foreign vehicles you can't really get in the US for a long time. Oh well.

lemmus ,
@lemmus@lemmy.world avatar

Absolutely. So many sensible sized European cars aren’t sold in the US because bullshit market research says small car bad big truck good.

Moonrise2473 ,

But the European market is also pushing bigger cars and SUV.

The smart is now a 4 meters SUV

The Volkswagen up (small 4 person car) is out of production and they're selling nothing under 4 meters

The fiat panda (another small 4 person car) is in the process of being redesigned and the mockups look like a huge range rover SUV

Skoda, after retiring the citigo, has the Fabia that's relatively small (almost 4 meters) and the rest are huge

Most automakers are giving up on the cheap and small compact car segment, leaving a big gap for Chinese automakers

maynarkh ,

The smart is now a 4 meters SUV

Is it? I haven't heard about it, I've seen some weird concept picture, but the Fortwo as currently being manufactured is still the same 2.6m long car as it was in 2014 as per Wikipedia.

The Volkswagen up (small 4 person car) is out of production and they’re selling nothing under 4 meters
Skoda, after retiring the citigo, has the Fabia that’s relatively small (almost 4 meters) and the rest are huge

They are the same company. The Skoda Citigo and the Seat Mii are both just rebadged Volkswagen Up cars.

The fiat panda (another small 4 person car) is in the process of being redesigned and the mockups look like a huge range rover SUV

Those mockups are actually the redesign of the Panda Cross, which was an SUV-ish thing they introduced in 2014. Fiat still makes the subcompact 500, having recently made an electric version.

Some EU automakers are doing weird stuff, but if you look at the electric car market for example, at lest where I live, locally produced electric kei trucks actually outsold Tesla at some point.

Moonrise2473 ,

The smart fortwo has been discontinued a few months ago, replaced by the 2 ton smart #1

The fiat panda cross was just a fancy trim of the fiat panda, same size and weight just bigger bumpers and higher wheels

shalafi , (edited )

Nope, it's the government's mileage standards. If you make a truck with a shorter wheelbase and track, it has to hit higher gas mileage standards. Easier to make a big truck that's allowed worse mileage.

https://youtu.be/azI3nqrHEXM

Also, I did a brief stint selling cars in the 90s. One of the salesmen explained it like this, "What's the real difference in a big truck and a small truck? Same engineering effort, same production work, all that. Hell, same parts for most systems.

More steel on the big one, and steel is cheap. We can charge a premium for the larger truck."

cosmic_cowboy ,
@cosmic_cowboy@reddthat.com avatar

The massive size of vehicles in the U.S. is ridiculous. I think a lot of people would buy smaller, cheaper cars if they were on the market.

toastal ,

I think folks bought into SUVs since they were bigger & selfishly less likely to take more damage in a crash. As such, with SUV tanks everywhere, being a pedestrian or in a small car on the road on in an SUV’s trajectory can often lead to lethal injury.

bastonia ,

When youre that fat you need a big car tbh

GammaGames ,
@GammaGames@beehaw.org avatar

My absolute favorite vehicle, based on looks alone

whotookkarl , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry
@whotookkarl@lemmy.world avatar

Not scary for the auto workers who want to work on them, build them, supply parts for them, etc or the families who want affordable EVs. More scary for the wealth class who didn't reinvest enough into updating their facilities and processes to stay competitive businesses. The government already gave them extra time with the embargo but that isn't going to last forever.

lmorchard , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry
@lmorchard@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Yeah, I'm a weirdo with a cargo e-bike. Love it, except when it rains or snows.

I'd love a sub-$20k street legal EV that skips the entertainment system and most other features. Just give me a weatherproof cabin with comfortable seats and a modest cargo capacity for groceries and small appliances. I'm only ever going to drive it for at most an hour around town and back. Maybe listen to a podcast from my phone. Stick solar panels on the roof and it'll probably always be topped off for how infrequently I drive. I'll rent something if I take a longer trip.

lemann ,

Yes, this please. Although I don't have a cargo bike, I load up all 3 sides of my pannier and fill a backpack with my cargo 😅

umami_wasbi ,
lmorchard ,
@lmorchard@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Yeah, totally. I'd also love to see like a rack of those for rent, every few blocks in my city. That'd be near perfect

NateNate60 , to World News in Chinese Brands Will Sell A Third Of The World's Cars By 2030: Study

The competition is welcome. We need it to continue to drive innovation. At least in America, traditional American brands haven't put out anything interesting for years. Just the same models being rehashed, but slightly bigger and more fuel efficient.

ramble81 ,

Except the US will do everything possible to prevent them from being sold domestically, while still pushing their brands globally. This will lead to a further split in what’s available in the US vs ROW.

AA5B ,

We’re doing it now to support legacy industry, try to push development of local industry, and while there is a technological change going on. But we’re doing it at huge expense. Do you really think that huge expense will hold up after legacy manufacturers never show up for the race, lose their global market, and the rest of the world advances?

I’m calling it now: Conservative platform for the 2028 election cycle will be to end those protections, to give people more choice, and to let a few billionaires profit

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

There is no way they will be able to prevent people from going to Mexico to buy them though. And that's what is being predicted.

ramble81 ,

Unless they come up with something that prevents them from getting DoT certification, sadly I can see them doing that. Or as long as they keep citing “national security” you won’t be able to.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Possibly.

NateNate60 ,

Registration of prohibited car models is not allowed. You might be able to import them, but there might be punitively high tariff and it would not be legal to drive

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

There was literally an article about this being predicted to happen soon in this community a few days ago:

https://www.autoblog.com/2024/06/15/chinese-cars-are-pouring-into-mexico-and-the-u-s-is-worried/

Apparently, the people who actually make the laws aren't as sure about this as you are.

555_1 ,

Yes they will. In Washington State, you have to pay WA sales tax to register a new car you bought in Oregon.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

How is making someone pay sales tax stopping them from buying a car in Mexico? Unless they're going to stop all Mexican cars at the Washington border...

555_1 ,

Because the tax for that specific car will be 300%

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

If you just enter the state with the car? I'm not sure what you're suggesting. Are Mexicans who drive their car from Mexico City to Seattle expected to pay this 300% tax? Are they going to check the citizenship of every driver?

555_1 ,

You can’t drive a car that is unregistered. You can’t register the car in Mexico, get plates, come up here and expect to drive it around. Eventually when you have to register it, you’ll get a bill.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You can keep registering it in Mexico or you can register the car in a state that doesn't require residency like New York or Indiana.

So, again, unless you expect Washington to put up border check stations, I'm not sure how they can make people pay this tax.

555_1 ,

You cannot register a car in New York without living there to avoid paying sales tax in the state you live in. Most states require you to pay sales tax based on your residency and where the vehicle will be primarily used. Additionally, registering a car in a state where you do not reside can be considered fraudulent and may lead to penalties.

Registering a car in Mexico also requires residency.

I understand the loopholes you are trying to find, but I promise you the penalties for getting caught will be worse than paying the tax.

Please don’t let my comments suggest that I support a large tax on these Chinese vehicles. I think everything is way too expensive and we need some competition.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You cannot register a car in New York without living there to avoid paying sales tax in the state you live in. Most states require you to pay sales tax based on your residency and where the vehicle will be primarily used.

Fine. Do it in indiana. We don't here. I don't need to try to find loopholes when A) they already exist and B) lawmakers are upset about it and are trying to close them.

555_1 ,

Confidently incorrect.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Did you read the article I pasted? Can you explain why lawmakers are worried about this problem if laws already take care of it?

555_1 ,

I see no pasted article link in this conversation thread.

And the reason why people are talking about it is because the fed is proposing tariffs on these cars, In addition to whatever state tax.

Let’s that the car is $10k imported. The fed charges a 100% tariff (suggested by Biden actually) so that gets passed to the consumer. Now the car is $20k, plus whatever sales tax you pay locally.

The reason people are talking about it is because this only benefits the local car manufacturers who won’t make a cheap car.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar
555_1 ,

The worry is that it will kill local competition.

It’s a free market in the US. I should be able to buy a Chinese car for $10k if I want too. If Ford can’t stay afloat, sucks to be ford.

ShepherdPie ,

This doesn't work as you getting pulled over with a WA ID in a car registered in Mexico is going to raise suspicions.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I'm not sure what you mean by raise suspicions. Is that legal or illegal?

ShepherdPie ,

It's illegal. You're required to register your car in your own state typically within 30 days.

bamboo ,

Are you though? Your license needs to be for your own state, but I’ve never read anywhere that this applies to car registrations.

ShepherdPie ,

Yes pretty much across the board: https://www.carparts.com/blog/where-do-i-register-my-car-if-i-have-homes-in-two-states/#What_To_Do_If_Youve_Recently_Moved_Into_A_New_State

This references moving to a new state but the same rules apply whether you're moving to a new state or residing in the same state but buying a new vehicle.

bamboo ,

That blog is a gross simplification and is not authoritative. Most of the time, you probably want to register your car in your state of residency, but if you scroll down just a tiny bit there are a whole list of states that allow you to register a car as a non-resident. All states respect cars registered in the other states, so if the vehicle is licensed and insured in one state and you have a valid personal drivers license, I see no reason why that wouldn’t work.

ShepherdPie ,

Because road funding is derived from car registration, states absolutely require you to register your car there if you live and use the car there. The fact that some states allow you to register your car with them even if it's not your primary residence doesn't negate this fact. That's likely for wealthy people who may have multiple homes and cars that they don't use in other states. This doesn't mean you can legally register your car in NY when you really live in Iowa to get away from having to register it in Iowa. Iowa is still going to want their registration fees and if police see you driving said NY plated car over and over in Iowa, you're probably going to get ticketed for it especially if you have an Iowa license.

The blog is a gross simplification compared to what? All you're offering is your personal theories on how things work.

GiveMemes ,

You have a poor understanding of sales tax bud

555_1 ,

Tariff *

eldavi ,

you won't be able to register it anywhere in the united states; which means that you won't be legally allowed to drive it unless you garage it every night at a mexican address.

FlyingSquid Mod ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You think people with cars registered in Mexico have to go back to Mexico every night?

Mexicans can't drive their cars further into the United States than a 12-hour drive? You really think that?

eldavi ,

it's required to by law; only presidents are allowed to break the law. lol

ShepherdPie ,

This isn't protectionism for US companies it's protectionism for the automotive industry as a whole in the US including manufacturing and sales of foreign brands like Toyota, Hyundai, and BMW. Domestic companies only account for a fraction of cars built and sold here.

demonsword ,
@demonsword@lemmy.world avatar

The competition is welcome

the 100% tariff enacted recently says otherwise

NateNate60 ,

Well, that apparently means the government that did that doesn't agree with me.

LordKitsuna ,

Even at 100% the Chinese EVs can be sold cheaper here they will leak in slowly. Chinese EV goes for as little as $12k sooo even at 100% thats cheaper as the lowest cost EV here are almost 3x that

eldavi ,

they're blocked in the united states and canada due to a 100% tariff and also mostly blocked in western europe using tariffs other protectionist means; there will be no innovation for you nor anyone that speak english natively.

NateNate60 ,

English-speaking Africans: guess I'll die

umami_wasbi , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry

If it pass safety standards without all those smart and data collection bs and being reliable for 7+ years with easy part sourcing I might give it a try.

InternetUser2012 ,

The data collection thing is a big one for me.

Zerush , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry
@Zerush@lemmy.ml avatar

Even Xiaomi has released the SU7, a real Tesla killer and also way cheaper. But not for the US market, but for the EU.

delirious_owl , to Technology in Americans Are Open To Cheap Chinese Cars. That’s 'Scary' For The Rest Of The Auto Industry
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

What's their e-bike situation like? Are there good ones or will they blow my nuts off?

CoffeeJunkie ,

Yes

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Recommendations?

CoffeeJunkie ,

Oh I was making a joke, like you posted an 'or' comment & I replied Yes like it will do both. 😂 Good bike, blows your balls off.

I've been looking at Super73 for years as a CLASSIC styling, really handsome ebike. YouTube search for things like Survival ebike, ebike for preppers. Because you'll tap into a whole community of people that want good & tough ebikes, not flimsy crap, ebikes that should be good relatively long-term. I trust Canadian Prepper; this video is a little older but information & considerations tend to be relevant years later.

I saw another prepper cheaping it with $700-800 ebikes, if I find it I'll post name & link...

Anyway jokes aside I hope that helps. Idk your situation but I'd almost be tempted to wait just a few more years; pandemic/oil prices have pushed so many ebikes into the wild & that has brought about soooooo much real-world testing & consumer feedback. I'm thinking the ebikes just a few years from now will be so much better, and possibly for cheaper or the same price.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

In my experience preppers buy things that sit in their storage space unused. I want something I can use hard (as a cargo bike) several times per day, every day, for decades.

CoffeeJunkie ,

This is a valid criticism that we talk about...working through supply, using supply, and becoming familiar with it is actually the ideal we should all strive for. 🙂 Idk about any bike, electric or not, that can withstand hard use several times/day for decades. (o_O) But product design is getting better all the time!

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Oh, I definitely know bikes that can survive hard use for decades. Of course you have to change wearing parts every X thousand km, but the bike should last generations.

What I'm unsure about is the e-bikes. I really don't want the battery to catch fire or explode. And the motor should last generations.

CoffeeJunkie ,

This is actually super great timing. I'm guessing by safer, they mean, won't blow your nuts off. 🤭 Might be a good community for us, too.

https://fedia.io/m/[email protected]/t/764970

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Some of the best bikes that last decades were built in the 1970s. There are some machines that don't get more durable when you throw more R&D at it.

Breakthroughs in product design for nonelectric bikes have been mostly optimizing weight, but very minor improvements that don't apply steel cargo bikes built to last generations.

Wahots ,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

Even some domestic brands like Juiced go on sale for like, $1,200 for a Juiced Ripracer. Aventon appears to make good stuff too, if you want bike shop support. I've had my bike for a month and put 320 miles on it. Fun little bike :)

https://pawb.social/pictrs/image/f6c7b7c8-5203-4503-861e-06c097aaeace.jpeg

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