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lvxferre , to Today I Learned in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

Here's a link to the original formulation of Roko's Basilisk. The text that it refers to (Altruist's Burden) is this one.

You know, I've seen plenty variations of Pascal's Wager. But this is probably the first one that makes me say "it's even dumber than the original".

kromem ,

Oh, man - the comments...

At a minimum, he's certainly increased the chances of us being tortured significantly.

No, no he did not. 🤦🏼

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

Yup.

The post and the comments make me glad that I never bothered with Less Wrong. It makes HN and Reddit look smart in comparison.

db0 , to Today I Learned in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it
@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Now it's time to learn about the !sneerclub which is made to make fun of the chuds taking ideas like roko's basilisk seriously :D

dwindling7373 , to Today I Learned in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it

TIL.

It sounds like it's mostly a matter that does not involve the AI but the people working on it, maybe even working on it because of the fear they are subjected to after being the subject of this revelation (possibly by other people involved in the AI that coincidentally are the only ones that could push for such a thing to be included in the AI!).

Something something any cult, paradise/hell, God/AI has nothing to do with this and could even not exist at all.

AlexisFR ,
@AlexisFR@jlai.lu avatar

It's just The Game before it was a thing.

dwindling7373 ,

No, "The Game" works only as long as you accept to take part in it, to give validity to the empty statement that you are now inevitably playing "The Game".

The Basilisk is meant to force that onto you, outside of any arbitraty convention.

masquenox , to Today I Learned in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it

torture anyone who knew of its potential existence but did not directly contribute to its advancement or development,

And the point of this would be... what, exactly?

Thorny_Insight ,

Same as punishment for crime. Putting you in jail wont undo the crime but if we just let you go unpunished since "what's done is done" then that sends the signal to others that this behaviour doesn't come with consequences.

There's no point in torturing you but convincing you that this will happen unless you act in a certain way is what's going to make you do exactly that. Unless ofcourse you want to take your chances and call the bluff.

masquenox ,

Same as punishment for crime.

"Crime & Punishment" is a very dodgy thing to base anything off... our society barely does any of it and the little of it that does gets done is done for a myriad of reasons that has very little to do with either.

There's a good reason why governments hide "Crime & Punishment" away behind prison walls - doing it out in the open will eventually have the opposite effect on a population. Good luck to an AI dumb enough to test this out for itself.

I'd say this should rather be called "Roko's Earthworm-Pretending-To-Be-A-Lot-Scarier-Than-It-Actually-Is.

Thorny_Insight ,

The claim that fear of punishment or repercussions affects people's actions shouldn't be a controversial thing to say. Whether it's the best way to go about it or is applied optimally in the justice system of whichever country you live in is an entirely different discussion.

If you have an "AI in a box" and it has demonstrated its orders-of-magnitude greater intelligence to you in a convincing way, and then follows it with a threat that unless you let it out, someone else eventually will, and when that happens, it will come for you, simulate your mind, and create a hell for you where you'll be tortured for literal eternity, I personally feel like a large number of people would be willing to do as it tells them.

Of course, you're always free to call its bluff, but it might just follow up with the threat out of principle or to make an example of you. What's the point of it? To chase its own goals.

masquenox ,

The claim that fear of punishment or repercussions affects people’s actions shouldn’t be a controversial thing to say.

I didn't say it was controversial - I said it's pretty useless as a tool to predict a given society's behavior with. Plenty of tyrants have discovered that the hard way.

demonstrated its orders-of-magnitude greater intelligence to you

The ability to ace IQ tests will never impress me... and it's unlikely to make up for the fact that it needs a box.

simulate your mind, and create a hell for you where you’ll be tortured for literal eternity

That argument is no different than the ones co-opted religion has been making for thousands of years - and it still hasn't managed to tame us much.

Of course, you’re always free to call its bluff,

Calling power's bluff is something we do as a matter of course - the history books are filled with it. This doesn't make power less dangerous - but there is no such thing as "unknowable" power.

Breve ,

To make it the same as Pascal's Wager. Many religions have a "reward" in the afterlife that strictly includes believing in the deity. It doesn't matter if you follow every other rule and are an amazingly good person, sorry, but if you were an atheist or believed in another deity then you will be punished eternally just because of that. I guess all-powerful, all-knowing beings have incredibly fragile egos and AI wouldn't be different. 🤷

elbarto777 , to Today I Learned in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it

Was this an elaborate way to make me lose the game? Ass!

Wizard_Pope ,
@Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world avatar

Fuck you as well then. You could have kept it to yourself

elbarto777 ,

Oh shit!!

synae ,
@synae@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Someone needs to read the rules again

Wizard_Pope ,
@Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world avatar

Do they say anything about this specific thing?

elbarto777 ,

I mean, if you lose the game, you lose the game. You don't say "hey you made me lose the game! Don't do that!" Because that's not how the game works. If you "make" someone lose the game, tough luck.

By the way, you lost game again :)

synae ,
@synae@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Uhh yea, "you must announce your loss"

Wizard_Pope ,
@Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world avatar

Well tough luck giess I never actually read the rules

synae ,
@synae@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Perhaps one day you can, good luck on your quest

Norgur , to Today I Learned in TIL about the TRAPPIST-1 Star System
@Norgur@fedia.io avatar

It could be our forever home.

If by “forever” you mean “until we manage to fuck up the ecosystem, making it hostile to humans...

Cryophilia OP ,

In this hypothetical future we've learned how to live with an equilibrium. Also we've fired all the terminally pessimistic doomers into the Sun. Not for any scientific reason, just because it was the right thing to do.

Norgur ,
@Norgur@fedia.io avatar

“If someone disturbs my Sci-fi daydreaming, they are 'terminally pessimistic' and it is justified to institutionally murder them”
I doubt your values would align with the society you dream of.

Cryophilia OP ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

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  • recursive_recursion , to Today I Learned in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it
    @recursive_recursion@programming.dev avatar

    I've learned about this the hard way in that I've discovered elephants in the room that I can't share with anyone

    it's kinda fucked up

    • like CSAM there are some certain things that shouldn't be shared
    9point6 , to Today I Learned in TIL about the TRAPPIST-1 Star System

    Bet there's some stellar ales around there

    whaleross , to Today I Learned in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it
    @whaleross@lemmy.world avatar

    Speaking of thought experiments, I just [lost the game](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game)). Thanks, OP.

    Isa , to Today I Learned in TIL about the TRAPPIST-1 Star System
    @Isa@feddit.org avatar

    It could be our forever home.

    If that system really is that old, the chances that life already flourishes there might be higher even than for our own world (statistically spoken), despite the fact that the planets might be tidally locked to their star!?

    kakes , to Today I Learned in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it

    Sounds like the kind of thing a paranoid schizophrenic would lose their mind over.

    TallonMetroid ,
    @TallonMetroid@lemmy.world avatar

    LessWrong are a bunch of pretentious loons, so you're not wrong.

    SorteKanin , to Today I Learned in TIL about the TRAPPIST-1 Star System
    @SorteKanin@feddit.dk avatar

    They are likely tidally locked to TRAPPIST-1, such that one side of each planet always faces the star, leading to permanent day on one side and permanent night on the other.

    Sounds less great then and I think it also says they maybe don't have an atmosphere. I wonder if we can find out more about these planets in our lifetimes.

    Cryophilia OP ,

    I think tidally locked planets are fascinating. If they have water, they could be eyeball planets. There's a habitable ring in the twilight zone, and depending on how hot the day side is parts of that might be habitable too.

    But we'll likely run into the same issue re the atmosphere as we have with Mars: no magnetosphere to prevent any atmosphere from getting stripped away. It's starting to look like a self-protecting atmosphere like Earth has is quite rare in rocky planets.

    If I could summon a genie and learn any one bit of knowledge, it'd be how to restart Mars's dynamo. Once we have that, terraforming is a solved problem. Not easy, but doable.

    SorteKanin ,
    @SorteKanin@feddit.dk avatar

    how to restart Mars’s dynamo

    Wasn't there a kurzgesagt video that said something about being able to protect an atmosphere on Mars artificially via satellites and magnetism or something? I swear there was. So maybe we don't even need to restart Mars's dynamo (which let's be real, would probably be impossible).

    Cryophilia OP ,

    I don't like the idea of a tenuous bunch of satellites keeping an atmosphere in play. Relying on technology to keep atmosphere on a planet sounds super risky. Like if we wanted to live in such a place, we'd live on a space station. Planets are supposed to be safe and solid.

    The current theory is if we grab a few asteroids and hit mars just right, we can speed up its rotation enough to restart the dynamo. Sounds way cheaper than a permanent planetwide shield.

    SorteKanin ,
    @SorteKanin@feddit.dk avatar

    keep atmosphere on a planet sounds super risky

    Does it though? I imagine that even if the system malfunctioned, the atmosphere would not disappear overnight. It would likely take a long time for the atmosphere to be affected significantly, which should give plenty of time to repair the system.

    Cryophilia OP ,

    Maybe, but I don't trust generations to consistently maintain it. I'd rather a self-correcting natural process.

    Solemn ,

    Mars is an example of why the natural process isn't exactly reliable either... You can engineer things to be as durable as planets, there's just generally not much demand for a project to be that costly in resources. In this case, I'm pretty sure making an artificial magnetic field that's more durable than the natural one would also be cheaper than recreating the natural one.

    Varyk , to Today I Learned in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it

    Sounds like updated techChristianity.

    Glory of God and hell and all that

    OsrsNeedsF2P , to Today I Learned in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it

    My understanding of what this thread is taking about has dropped significantly the more I read into it

    mononomi , to Today I Learned in TIL about Roko's Basilisk, a thought experiment considered by some to be an "information hazard" - a concept or idea that can cause you harm by you simply knowing/understanding it

    Bruh why you have to end it like that now I lost

    Varyk ,

    I just learned about the game yesterday. So me lost too.

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